Anonymous vs. Scientology

[Jetsetlemming]

Religious people can certainly think in a logical matter. That's not my contention. The contention is that religious belief itself can be logical. I don't think that it can. It's operating on a whole different paradigm, one rooted in mysticism and revelation rather than empiricism and testing.

If you have it, it feels perfectly logical. For a theist, the existence of God is such an obvious thing that not accepting it as the truth and acknowledging His presence would be the illogical thing. I point you towards CS Lewis's conversion.

[Dr Mario]

If you have it, it feels perfectly logical. For a theist, the existence of God is such an obvious thing that not accepting it as the truth and acknowledging His presence would be the illogical thing. I point you towards CS Lewis's conversion.

Right. It feels logical, but it isn't logical. There's a glaring untested premise sitting right in the middle of the room and being not at all subtle about it. Whether people want to acknowledge it or not.

Not that Lewis was a particularly good apologist. In fact, he wass terrible at it. Right on par with Pascal when it comes to making dodgy assumptions about possibilities and defining problems out of existence. The Trilemma was as bad as Pascals wager and Pascal at least had the excuse of it being an unfinished and unpublished idea. Universal Morality has the edge there, but only because it's one flaw is in the premise rather than having them scattered throughout the whole damn thing.

[Banned]

EDIT: I hope the nsa sees this one.

??

[Jetsetlemming]

Right. It feels logical, but it isn't logical. There's a glaring untested premise sitting right in the middle of the room and being not at all subtle about it. Whether people want to acknowledge it or not.

"You don't exist. You whom believe that you DO exist, while that belief may feel logical to you, it's unproven that you actually do exist, therefore I say it's illogical of you to believe you exist."

[Huey Kruthas]

"You don't exist. You whom believe that you DO exist, while that belief may feel logical to you, it's unproven that you actually do exist, therefore I say it's illogical of you to believe you exist."

Oh, very pretty words. Nothing else, though. A logical fallacy, because it is quite logically proven that we do exist. Our atoms can be studied and analyzed, therefore they must exist, therefore we must exist. Now, you could use a quote like that in a philosophy discussion, but philosophy is no more logical than religion.

You see, logic is a body of science that studies arguments. The argument that God exists is a bad argument, because it lacks a testable premise to back up the conclusion, so it is not logical.

That isn't to say that all logical things are correct, but that wasn't the argument to begin with.

[Chibi-Suke]

"You don't exist. You whom believe that you DO exist, while that belief may feel logical to you, it's unproven that you actually do exist, therefore I say it's illogical of you to believe you exist."

I really don't care if I exist. I can type these words, fix my computer, and do countless other things. My non-existance has no effect on me. I can still enjoy my non-existant life. So I'm not going to worry myself over some metaphysical philosophy, when I could be playing Super Smash bros.

Does anyone have that game on the PJ64k emulator, cause I need someone to fight.

[Fighter17]

Did Anonymous won yet?

[Chibi-Suke]

Did Anonymous won yet?

I think it was doomed from the start, teen-age hackers versus Multi-Billion dollar organization... don't work out to well.

Challenge still stands... any one got ssb?

[Fighter17]

Something is going to happen tomorrow:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8lAQ-SoaPQ

And this was funny:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84TE5Uh4Z4E

[Fury]

The universe isn't god's creation, It is my own creation based on the people and places I've seen. My universe right now is my apartment, and an immediate perimeter around it of people and objects that i can percieve through my own five senses. Because of uncertainty Once I leave a place its existence is no longer relevant. This is because I cannot perceive what is happening in places I am not. The Universe is a collection of memories and truths in everyones mind. Quantum Mechanics have proven there is no local reality. Everyone has their own reality and truth. In a sense, the universe I have created only exists in my own mind, I dont know if any of the people or places I have seen are real, other than myself. Everyone lives in their own slightly alternate universe based on the places and people they've seen, and the facts that they know. So to the question of god, I am my own damn god. And to the question of whether I really exist right now, i subscribe to the theorem, "I think therefore I am"

[Jetsetlemming]

Oh, very pretty words. Nothing else, though. A logical fallacy, because it is quite logically proven that we do exist. Our atoms can be studied and analyzed, therefore they must exist, therefore we must exist. Now, you could use a quote like that in a philosophy discussion, but philosophy is no more logical than religion.

You see, logic is a body of science that studies arguments. The argument that God exists is a bad argument, because it lacks a testable premise to back up the conclusion, so it is not logical.

That isn't to say that all logical things are correct, but that wasn't the argument to begin with.

(I was speaking spiritually, not physically)

[Dr Mario]

The universe isn't god's creation, It is my own creation based on the people and places I've seen. My universe right now is my apartment, and an immediate perimeter around it of people and objects that i can percieve through my own five senses. Because of uncertainty Once I leave a place its existence is no longer relevant. This is because I cannot perceive what is happening in places I am not. The Universe is a collection of memories and truths in everyones mind. Quantum Mechanics have proven there is no local reality. Everyone has their own reality and truth. In a sense, the universe I have created only exists in my own mind, I dont know if any of the people or places I have seen are real, other than myself. Everyone lives in their own slightly alternate universe based on the places and people they've seen, and the facts that they know. So to the question of god, I am my own damn god. And to the question of whether I really exist right now, i subscribe to the theorem, "I think therefore I am"

Quantum Physics does not mean what you think it does.

[Libra]

Hope that works for you man, but that's a crap theory. It's lonely. It's cynical. I like to think there's a higher power out there, I don't think we're all a coincidence. We're all made too perfect and unique for it to be all one huge accident or coincidence. Just because we don't know and can't comprehend heaven and eternity, doesn't mean it's not there. Just like the wind. We're so used to relying on our only senses, and we're too ignorant to even think of the word infinity and eternity.
There's a lot more, but it's hard for me to think/type it all. I do much better talking and seem to make more sense probably.

[Dr Mario]

Hope that works for you man, but that's a crap theory. It's lonely. It's cynical. I like to think there's a higher power out there, I don't think we're all a coincidence. We're all made too perfect and unique for it to be all one huge accident or coincidence. Just because we don't know and can't comprehend heaven and eternity, doesn't mean it's not there. Just like the wind. We're so used to relying on our only senses, and we're too ignorant to even think of the word infinity and eternity.
There's a lot more, but it's hard for me to think/type it all. I do much better talking and seem to make more sense probably.

You have a weird definition of perfection, if I may say so. I'd also like to know what we're supposed to rely on if not our senses.

[Libra]

Well, obviously this world isn't perfect, but the way we are made so unique and our body parts are in just the right place for all to function, as well as everything else. I don't know man, take a look outside, look at some scenery and space. I can't see how all of this was an accident.

Humans have to rely on our senses, of course, that's why we have them. But I just meant we're so used to only believing what we see, but there's plenty we can't see, that's still there.