E3 2013 General Discussion

[Raype]

This. The video game industry I loved was the one that kept throwing innovation and technology at you, I remember when almost all AAA games had something new to offer. This was obliterated is Gen7, and doesn't seem to come back in Gen8. But since they've improved from "making everything worse" to "making things stay the same", the just might improve to "improve something" in Gen9.

You mean the one that didn't exist?

Seriously, take a shot every time you see Mario or Sonic pop up. Neither of which really evolved beyond the original (or in the latter's case, most commonly remembered original) outing. AAA gaming has always been a steaming pile of rehash and been-done where innovation and change were four letter words.

It's just that instead of doing top down shooters, third person shooters, platformers (of the 2d and 3d variety), or terrible, terrible arcade ports we're doing first person shooters.

/obligatory Ray is mildly intoxicated and attempting to point out that history sucked too post in GG

[gezegond]

Blah blah blah game industry has always been shit

In Gen5 both Mario & Zelda evolved. FPS & RTS were created in Gen4 and completed in Gen5. Simulation racing games, Survival horror... There are just too many for me to name. (EDIT: O forgot about online gaming. It did not exist in gen 3 if you had payed attention)

What you're saying applies only to a very small subset of games and even then not it's entirely true.

[Zaladane]

Man you're gonna get ripped apart

[tusar]

there is another point nobody discussed that if you play games for 2 hours and switch to TV and watch movies or something for another 3 hours thats total 3+2 = 5 hours which may cause overheating problems for Xbox one unless it has great cooling systems, no?

[crusher]

Here's the extended MGS5 trailer. It's so sexy

Holy crap at that intestine digging! Just read that Kojima confirmed on his podcast that it's Paz on the table. What are the odds of her surviving that?

[Gypsy]

You mean the one that didn't exist?

Seriously, take a shot every time you see Mario or Sonic pop up. Neither of which really evolved beyond the original (or in the latter's case, most commonly remembered original) outing. AAA gaming has always been a steaming pile of rehash and been-done where innovation and change were four letter words.

It's just that instead of doing top down shooters, third person shooters, platformers (of the 2d and 3d variety), or terrible, terrible arcade ports we're doing first person shooters.

/obligatory Ray is mildly intoxicated and attempting to point out that history sucked too post in GG

Yep, that one.

People like to fondly misremember the past. Glory days bullshit etc... All you have to do is look at the amounts of shovelware on the NES, SNES, PS1 etc...to see that nothing has really changed (Saturn library is like....20% playable...maybe...). In fact maybe garbage games are a little more playable now if anything. Though I still wouldn't touch most movie games or at least 60% of games coming out for Nintendo handhelds. Don't get me wrong the DS had a ton of good and great games but somewhere around 239572347 games ( ) were released for it.

[garrendesares]

i think every console has shovelware. this gen it was disguised as ds games, wii sports, kinnect and psmove. oh and dont forget all the fps re-hashes every six months!

[Gypsy]

I don't think Kinect titles are very well disguised.

[Raype]

In Gen5 both Mario & Zelda evolved. FPS & RTS were created in Gen4 and completed in Gen5. Simulation racing games, Survival horror... There are just too many for me to name. (EDIT: O forgot about online gaming. It did not exist in gen 3 if you had payed attention)

What you're saying applies only to a very small subset of games and even then not it's entirely true.

If by "evolved" you mean "had a slight perspective change" then I couldn't agree more.

FPS was just maze games with guns until semi-recently. Wolfenstein even looked like a mod of one of those games. RTS was more or less just any other top down game except you control multiple units instead of one. I guess we can say squad based FPS or the creation of the cover shooter is an amazing evolution too due to a slight addition that has a huge impact on how the game is played. Survival horror and sim racing are older than you think. Online gaming was lackluster before this gen. Guess we can say there's still some evolution, eh?

[gezegond]

If by "evolved" you mean "had a slight perspective change" then I couldn't agree more.

If you think going from 2d sprites to 3d models is not called evolving then I don't know which planet you're from.

FPS was just maze games with guns until semi-recently.

>Maze game with guns
>Half-Life

RTS was more or less just any other top down game except you control multiple units instead of one.

Yes, let's dumb down RTS to just "top down", because obviously zelda and command & conquer are pretty much the same thing.

I guess we can say squad based FPS

>Rainbow six
>Gen 5

the creation of the cover shooter is an amazing evolution too due to a slight addition that has a huge impact on how the game is played.

Cover based shooting IS an innovation. It's just not a very good one IMO (because the guy is looking the other way, how can the player know what's going on behind his head???) and one of the very few innovations of Gen7.

Survival horror and sim racing are older than you think.

As a genre, no. I don't know which games you're referring to exactly, but afaik there were very few games that would fall under the genre in Gen3. (Sweet home wa it called?) and please tell me the name of Gen4 sim racing I would really like to know.

Online gaming was lackluster before this gen.

>Battlefield 2
>Counter-Strike
>Unreal Tournament(s)
>Quake
>Lackluster gameplay

Guess we can say there's still some evolution, eh?

Yes, there is some. I don't think Gen 5 was absolutely great, with not a single bad game, and Gen7 absolutely shit with not a single good game or innovation. It's just that at that time, innovation was the main goal of AAA games, partly due to rise of 3D and no one knowing wat do, and partly because companies were not as big as they are now to afford the same marketing campaigns.

And you're over simplifying things. By your logic GTA IV is just a "little perspective change" compared to zelda 1, or even adventure. You're like, ignoring EVERYTHING!

Yada yada yada shovelware exists, so game industry is bullshit

Shovelware existed since like, Gen2. That's not a very good observation IMO. Are you saying that as long as shovelware exist, there can't be innovation on a system? Are you expecting a system on which no single shovelware exist or something?

Not EVERYTHING has changed, like I said, I don't think Gen5 was absolutely perfect, but it was still way better than this gen. If the quality of shovelware is the only metric you use to gauge the performance of a generation, then I guess you're right.

What I'm talking about here is "Innovation & Technology". I compare the games from a generation to it's previous one and then decide.

Comparing Gen5 to Gen4: 3D itself was a new technology. It was barely used anywhere else before. Online gaming was a new technology as well that didn't exist before at all. Game controllers went from SNES to Dual Shock. Discs. Most of the technology you use in games these days originated in Gen5. For Innovation: Compare Resident Evil's graphics to any Gen4 game. I don't think any racing game in Gen4 can even remotely compare to Gran Turismo. Half-Life nuff said. Again, there are too many.

Comparing Gen7 to Gen6: Technology: Better graphics Higher resolution. 3D, but almost never used. Motion controllers existed before as gimmicks, now they exist as gimmicks! I believe the best technology improvement this gen was DS's touch pad. For innovation: Gears of War is a step backwards from UT IMO. Call of Duty is pretty much still the same thing as CoD2. Halo3 is the same as Halo1. These are the big sellers here, not the shovelware no one cares about. Forgive me, but I have seen little to no innovation this Gen compared to Gen6. They just replicated Gen6 PC games on Gen7 Consoles and then marketed the hell out of it.

================================================

I'd like to stop this conversation now as we're getting offtopic and I don't feel like trolling the trolls today. Just wanted you to know that I'm not looking back to the old days solely emotionally. It does have an emotional nostalgic factor associated with it, but I have thought this thoroughly and logically. The leap from Gen4 to Gen5 is so great compared to the difference between Gen6 and Gen7 that if you can't see it you're blind IMO.

[FlavaFlave]

I'd like to stop this conversation now as we're getting offtopic and I don't feel like trolling the trolls today.

Yeah, well Raype isn't a troll and was stating the obvious. Your posts are too convoluted to really make much sense out of, and I think you've left the PC pretty much entirely out of your discussion. Do you even know which consoles fit in to which generation category or are you just spewing at the mouth? If there's any trolling going on it kinda sounds like it's coming from you, since you swear you're right on everything.

And to Crusher - Dude - I didn't know that's Paz.... that's crazy! Did you happen to notice that Miller is missing an arm and most of his leg as well?? Shit's gonna get CRAZY

[Gypsy]

All I'm saying is that the game industry is exactly the same, I was using shovelware as an example. Shovelware has nothing to do with innovation. Both have existed throughout the history of video gaming and will continue to exist each gen. There is no real innovation anyway, something new gets thrown out there (maybe tweaked from something else), it sells so people copy it. Graphics are made to look better to sell more games. Profit is the driving force, not artistic merit. I never said the game industry is bullshit though.

[gezegond]

I just said that I loved the Gen5 because I believed it was full of innovation compared to this one. Then gave some examples to back up my opinion. Now I'm a cunt and a troll? Well, thank you.

@FlavaFlave: You seem like you didn't read my post at all. I did talk about PC, and I never swear to be right on everything (or anything). I used the term "IMO" 4 times in my post as a matter of fact. The trolling part was a semi joke, mostly because I think that when it comes to posts like this, people usually can't have rational discussions and in the end it usually boils down to what people think emotionally. I'm willing to talk with Raype about this logically and I'll be more than happy if he can prove me wrong and teach me something while at it.

You on the other hand, just posted to directly attack me, without really discussing the topic at all.

[Gypsy]

Comparing Gen5 to Gen4: 3D itself was a new technology. It was barely used anywhere else before. Online gaming was a new technology as well that didn't exist before at all. Game controllers went from SNES to Dual Shock. Discs. Most of the technology you use in games these days originated in Gen5. For Innovation: Compare Resident Evil's graphics to any Gen4 game. I don't think any racing game in Gen4 can even remotely compare to Gran Turismo. Half-Life nuff said. Again, there are too many.

It was just natural evolution though (which is what I've been saying (to try and sell more games)). The jump was bigger than the one to the gen 7 from gen 6, but what's the next step aside from virtual reality? Of course jumping from 2D to 3D was going to be huge. After big jumps like that future ones will seem less significant. Game graphics have to peak at some point (it's probably happening in the next 10 years). I dislike motion controls and actual 3D so those did nothing for me but they should probably be counted as pretty big innovations. Sony shouldn't re-invent the wheel with their controller, though the Wii controller is definitely a step back.

[FlavaFlave]

All I'm saying is that the game industry is exactly the same, I was using shovelware as an example. Shovelware has nothing to do with innovation. Both have existed throughout the history of video gaming and will continue to exist each gen. There is no real innovation anyway, something new gets thrown out there (maybe tweaked from something else), it sells so people copy it. Graphics are made to look better to sell more games. Profit is the driving force, not artistic merit. I never said the game industry is bullshit though, so don't put words in my mouth.

This^

Now I'm a cunt and a troll? Well, thank you.

You on the other hand, just posted to directly attack me, without really discussing the topic at all.

If you're directing that at me, don't be putting words into my mouth either - I said you seem to be the one trolling and never outright attacked you or called you a cunt or troll. Plus I backed it up with a wacko face, which only meant I'm SEMI-SERIOUS.

Back to things that actually matter, PS4 has a fully swappable HDD, much like the PS3. Meanwhile, the Xbone is locked in at 500 gig and there will be no way to upgrade it ever. Do you know how fast 500 gig will fill up when you're dealing with BluRay games, especially since MS requires you to install everything anyway? Also, what about the DVR capabilities? That will eat into the HDD like none other.

And then there's this. http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/...-isnt-a-sprint
According to Mr. Spencer, it isn't a sprint but in the long term Xbone will win. Derp