The Ivolt-Sinatra Out: Dave me to the Moon~

[Tassadar]

I think SA had a lot more variety overall, I mean you get to do things like steal jetpacks from secret government facilities in the desert and sneak onto aircraft carriers to acquire experimental fighter jets, or systematically take out a rival casino, or cause Beavis and Butthead style power shortages at Hoover Dam. In GTA IV you have a bank robbery and uh... that's really the only mission that stands out. I still can't quite tell if it's because they were going for a more serious tone or were simply just trying to find their way around the new engine.

I thought the physics of GTA IV were brilliant and driving was much better as a result of this. The graphics were also better but that's a moot point because GTA IV came out much later on a more powerful console. However as you said GTA IV was trying to tone the game down and make it very serious and also like you said the variety was dropped from the game, GTA SA didn't take itself too seriously at all, it had some characters just thrown in for laughs (Maca) and impossible stunts that just made it more fun.

[Raype]

I think SA had a lot more variety overall, I mean you get to do things like steal jetpacks from secret government facilities in the desert and sneak onto aircraft carriers to acquire experimental fighter jets, or systematically take out a rival casino, or cause Beavis and Butthead style power shortages at Hoover Dam. In GTA IV you have a bank robbery and uh... that's really the only mission that stood out to me. I still can't quite tell if it's because they were going for a more serious tone or were simply just trying to find their way around the new engine.

I'm going to go with the serious tone. They added plenty of little details to the world (TV shows, internet, etc) to the point where there's no real reason for why they couldn't have found time for that (well, alright, there were budget constraints, but I'm sure they weren't THAT limiting).

IV is a crime drama that takes a pretty serious route (compare a bit more to GTAIII).

VC would be a slightly less grounded drama. Things get "out there".

SA is a cartoon.

Different games, different styles, different tones, different ways to do things.

(And all good in their own ways. Just, you know, DIFFERENT)

[Inferno.]

I really liked GTA III, VC and SA back in the day. I haven't really played any of them since they were new though...

I remember sitting in school one day working out how much trade I would get for my PS2 games so I could get GTA VC on release day.

[Raype]

I thought the physics of GTA IV were brilliant and driving was much better as a result of this. The graphics were also better but that's a moot point because GTA IV came out much later on a more powerful console. However as you said GTA IV was trying to tone the game down and make it very serious and also like you said the variety was dropped from the game, GTA SA didn't take itself too seriously at all, it had some characters just thrown in for laughs (Maca) and impossible stunts that just made it more fun.

One of my favorite characters in SA was a blind triad known for walking into walls. One of the others is a chronically high hippie conspiracy theorist. At one point, you help a nerd wage an RC war against his rival.

"Didn't take itself too seriously" is the understatement of the century.

[Tassadar]

I'm going to go with the serious tone. They added plenty of little details to the world (TV shows, internet, etc) to the point where there's no real reason for why they couldn't have found time for that (well, alright, there were budget constraints, but I'm sure they weren't THAT limiting).

IV is a crime drama that takes a pretty serious route (compare a bit more to GTAIII).

VC would be a slightly less grounded drama. Things get "out there".

SA is a cartoon.

Different games, different styles, different tones, different ways to do things.

(And all good in their own ways. Just, you know, DIFFERENT)

Good point, IV ran like a crime film (the bank robbery mission reminds of the shootout scene from Heat)

[Ivolt]

Oh. WELL SHIT RAY

[Inferno.]

I like GTA IV, it's just a tad boring compared to the game before it.

[Raype]

I like GTA IV, it's just a tad boring compared to the game before it.

Any game after one where you can don a gimp suit, fly a jetpack into vegas, and then proceed to beat hookers to death with a rubber phallus will no doubt be unable to live up to its predecessor.

[Tassadar]

One of my favorite characters in SA was a blind triad known for walking into walls. One of the others is a chronically high hippie conspiracy theorist. At one point, you help a nerd wage an RC war against his rival.

"Didn't take itself too seriously" is the understatement of the century.

It was more fun though, to say more at least it never played out like a serious game and then had silly plot points.

I mean you could walk straight into a military base and steal a tank and break through a surprisingly weak fence.

[Jase]

I like GTA IV, it's just a tad boring compared to the game before it.

I like SA, becuase i have ADHD.

[Inferno.]

Anyone want to buy 2 flashed 360s?

[Raype]

It was more fun though.

[Ivolt]

Wasn't the ballad of Gay Tony supposed to harken back to the good old days, where everyone was bugfuck insane?

[Jase]

Anyone want to buy 2 flashed 360s?

50 bucks.

[Synthetik]

He was fed up with killing before it started. He came to america to get away from it. He had a secondary goal of performing one final kill to finally put the past behind him, but that's about it. But then things got bad and he had to go back to his previous way of solving problems for lack of alternatives. I think he definitely changed his opinion on seeking revenge, but he always seemed to give an air of not wanting to commit the crimes he did. He really just lacked a choice. I don't see how the ending gave him a way out any more than the beginning did. Sooner or later, I see things going poorly for him again.

He gets married, settles down, and has a family. He's quite happy and no longer has to rely on Niko for everything. Niko/Roman have a friendship, but it's also a serious dependency. Niko feels sorry for Roman due to a couple of things (the situation involving his aunt comes up at one point), and Niko generally a way for Roman to solve his problems (which appeared to be at least part of Roman's invitation). Niko depends on Roman to relieve his guilt and as a sort of lifeline to his lost humanity (Niko is far more "normal" when around Roman, and sometimes seems happy. Once Roman is out of the picture he's generally seen brooding about something or committing a crime (often for Roman's sake)). Packie seemed to be about the only character Niko spent considerable time with without much of an motive or reason. He just opts to spend time with him (perhaps in part due to them being somewhat similar. They both had fucked up childhoods, they both have to resort to violence to get by, and they both have a family member they go out of their way to protect). Helping him didn't seem to have quite so much of a purpose as the other missions generally did. No blackmail, no huge cash revenue (at first), no saving roman.

Ironically, Kate dying would probably have the same effect on Packie that Roman's death would have on Niko. You're just choosing which character to ruin.

That's also true. His original goal when he got off the boat was to live the dream and settle down with Roman, which obviously drags him down the road that he travels throughout the game. I think once it's revealed that Bulgarin is the real antagonist Niko's focus kind of shifts though, and although he doesn't seem especially driven to go up against a huge criminal organization he ends up getting pushed into that situation. It's true that he lacked the choice, but the entire reason that he ended up coming to America in the first place was to find a way out and to escape his past, and also to protect his mother to a degree. By the end of the game he does find a way out and finally resolves his past, despite having to confront everything that he was trying to run from.

I think Niko and Roman are very dependent on each other, but mostly just because he's family and the main reason that Niko decided to get off the boat in the first place. Niko is kind of forced into all of the conflicts throughout the game because of Roman's problems though, as you said, so it makes sense to me that outside of interacting with Roman Niko is brooding or angry with his situation. Although I can kind of see the ending turning out a bit more pleasantly than crime catching up with Niko again, especially if Roman lives. Although Kate dying is obviously crushing to Niko, one of the random talks between Roman and Niko in one of the missions is about a dream Roman had where they both settle down with the women of their dreams and open up a tavern and live the good life. Although the girl of Niko's dreams may have been killed I think the opportunity for a similar new beginning is still possible, considering that Roman and Mallorie are still alive. Of course Niko is probably going to be pretty fucked up over the whole situation. As you said, he's hardly an optimist. Packie is the most similar to Niko though thinking back on it, but I question if that's because of true friendship or convenience. Although there is some bonding on the friendship missions between him and Packie, namely how Niko can relate to having an abusive father. Most of the early Packie missions were also fairly pointless compared to the other mission NPCs, but there was also the need for money (despite how meager it is) and it led up to the more important missions. After that all of the interaction with Packie was pretty minimal as far as I remember.

True, although from the standpoint of the PC, choosing Kate to die is the inferior choice seeing as Roman's taxi service is the shit and Kate won't even put out.