What changed, if I may ask?Originally Posted by Hypnos
Jackass Penguin
What changed, if I may ask?
Cookie Thief
Because it's possible to be able to prevent human evil without being willing to do so without being outright malevolent. It falls back to the original promise of Free Will. If you choose to be good or evil, God isn't going to stop you or encourage you one way or the other, at least not while you're still alive.
As I was walking down the stair,
I met a man who wasn't there.
He wasn't there again today.
I wish, I wish he'd go away.
Fear and Loathing
Which is sabotaged by three facts:
1. Angels apparently don't have free will. Hence, Satan got a royal screwjob and by extension everyone tainted by him got fucked over as well.
2. You can't have free will (at least in the context of good/evil) without a knowledge of good and evil. Adam and Eve didn't have that until after they ate of the fruit. At which point, they were already fucked.
3. God has no problem interfering with free will. Pharoah, most of the population in the Book of Revelation.
I reread the bible (originally for Religious Education class. Needed to check some stuff for a comparision to other religions) and found a number of things that I just couldn't bring myself to support, both morally and intellectually.
Last edited by Dr Mario; 11th-February-2008 at 04:35.
Who?
do I have to describe the irony of this statement?
Cookie Thief
He found it funner to be the devil's advocate?I know I've seen the attraction. I enjoy reminding my devout friends that the bible is the infallible word of God translated through countless fallible humans along the way. :3
But then, I tend to be a dick myself to certain people.
1. Lol Dogma. Good movie, though.
2. Yes, you can. You don't need to know consciously the difference between good and bad to act it out by nature. Otherwise every little kid and atheist would be totally evil. If your behavior was entirely based on knowledge, I'd be some sort of evil genius working out of a secret volcano lab by now. Lord knows it would fit perfectly into my family history.
3. You'll notice God's interactions with the mortal world fall off sharply after Jesus. You'll also notice that, save for anecdotal, half-mythic things like Noah and the Flood, his interactions with humanity were entirely in the form of messages and chances, and enacting the will of certain humans who ask things of him. The plagues were directly requested by Moses.
The lord works in mysterious ways.
Lol, don't double post.- Michael It's like those who believe in God enjoy double posting.
<3
As I was walking down the stair,
I met a man who wasn't there.
He wasn't there again today.
I wish, I wish he'd go away.
Exalted Potentate of Love
Again, we think we know it all, we think we have the brain power to comprehend everything, so when something sounds ridiculous, it's hard to believe. Trust me, I'm the same. I'm a see/believe kind of person. But I've seen people healed through prayer. Diseases that you can't just pretend and unpretend. When medications didn't work, prayer did. I've seen it with my own eyes, in person, and knew the people. That's why I know it's there, it's just still hard for me to devout myself to it fully yet.
You can call that a coincidence, but I'll stick to my beliefs.
-= PSN Name is StellarSublime =-
You've just been marked!
Seriously? So, say, AIDS and cancer patients can be rid of their illnesses with prayer? Shit, we don't even need doctors or medicine anymore. :O
Cookie Thief
Worked for Magic Johnson.
As I was walking down the stair,
I met a man who wasn't there.
He wasn't there again today.
I wish, I wish he'd go away.
Jackass Penguin
The post before the edit made more sense
Prayer may not cure them, but it won't make them any worse.
Banned
That's correct, Michael.
Fear and Loathing
I haven't actually seen it, but most people seem to think so. You haven't rebutted what I said though.
You do, however, have to be at least aware of what the concepts are. Prior to consuming the fruit of the tree, Adam and Eve didn't have that awareness (Genesis 3:4).
I was actually referring to the part of Exodus where God repeatedly hardens the heart of Pharaoh, so that he won't let the Israelites go. Then there's Thessalonians 2:11 (And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie) and the actions of Revelation.3. You'll notice God's interactions with the mortal world fall off sharply after Jesus. You'll also notice that, save for anecdotal, half-mythic things like Noah and the Flood, his interactions with humanity were entirely in the form of messages and chances, and enacting the will of certain humans who ask things of him. The plagues were directly requested by Moses.
The lord works in mysterious ways.
Exalted Potentate of Love
Like I mentioned before, God isn't a magician. I never said everyone is healed through prayer. That's why everyone's not a Christian obviously. Fate and time still play a major role. Just because people pray for something, doesn't mean it's goin to happen. May not make sens to us, but it makes sense to God. He has his own plan and purpose for everyone of us.
I've seen friends in my old youth group, kids who had some medical problems, ever since I had met them, and had been healed. There's plenty of time where I should have been dead from something unexplainable, and with my mom and half the country (through friends, family, 700 club, ect..) I was healed the next morning with no symptoms.
-= PSN Name is StellarSublime =-
Jackass Penguin
So, some newfound "knowledge" turned you away from God.
Wow. That's kinda ironic.
You've just been marked!
That must be very odd and lucky for you and them, because I know of plenty of people who also have sicknesses, and are Christians. They pray, boy do they. And some have died from their sicknesses, or are still suffering from them.
Exalted Potentate of Love
And don't get me wrong, not everytime I'm sick or someone I know is sick,are they healed the next morning, or even at all. Hell, I prayed for my Dog not to die, and he still did. I don't expect things to always work out and just use God when something's wrong. It takes a relationship with him and again, he has his own plan and purpose for things to occur, so sometimes things have to happen, whether we think it's fair or not.
-= PSN Name is StellarSublime =-
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