Anonymous vs. Scientology

[Fury]

I dont know, I find that anonymous's efforts are somewhat misfocused. Yes, the church of scientology is a bad organization. I live in Los angeles. Ive been to the church on the corner of Sunset blvd. and L. Ron Hubbard Way. We smoked weed in their parking lot, then proceeded to take their personal evaluation. It turned out to be a very job application like test of 200 questions the format of. A statement is given, and you must signify how you feel about it ranging from , Strongly agree to strongly disagree. After which I spoke with a "counselor" who read me my test results. In a nutshell, they told me that overall I was ok, but that i was depressed (no shit I'm 21), and that in order to not be depressed I needed to take a $60(USD) class and read dianetics. After all of this, I abruptly left. The church of scientology is more or less a glorified book store. Scientology works off the same basic premise as any religion. This is split into 2 elements, the disease and the cure. Not only can the church (any church) tell you whats wrong with you, they have the cure. The cure is usually regular church attendance, donation and prayer. Or in the case of the church of scientology, buy books and take some lame classes and seminars.

My point is, yes the church of scientology is undoubtedly a bad organization, every religion is. In the united states, I believe the catholic and christian movements are much more dangerous to our freedom and personal sovereignty than the church of scientology. They are the most divisive force in the United states. We are at senseless war because of them, they want to take the rights away from gay, lesbian and transgendered people. I think they are the real threat to all of us. At the end of the day, scientology doesn't even register on the radar compared them.

[Dr Mario]

My point is, yes the church of scientology is undoubtedly a bad organization, every religion is. In the united states, I believe the catholic and christian movements are much more dangerous to our freedom and personal sovereignty than the church of scientology. They are the most divisive force in the United states. We are at senseless war because of them, they want to take the rights away from gay, lesbian and transgendered people. I think they are the real threat to all of us. At the end of the day, scientology doesn't even register on the radar compared them.

Sadly, the CoS has, at least as far as modern USA goes, more blood on it's hands than the Catholic Church. They've killed people both directly and indirectly, attempted to infiltrate the government, ruined dissenters lives and generally pulled crap that the church gave up decades ago. On top of that, they largely have the same hot-button issues in Abortion, GLBT rights and such.

Now some of the fundie churches, they would be on the same level if they had the money and pull that the CoS does. But they generally don't.


Outside of the US.. the Catholic Church easily leads in terms of fucking the world up. But inside the US, they aren't even a major player anymore.

[Fury]

Sadly, the CoS has, at least as far as modern USA goes, more blood on it's hands than the Catholic Church. They've killed people both directly and indirectly, attempted to infiltrate the government, ruined dissenters lives and generally pulled crap that the church gave up decades ago. On top of that, they largely have the same hot-button issues in Abortion, GLBT rights and such.

Now some of the fundie churches, they would be on the same level if they had the money and pull that the CoS does. But they generally don't.


Outside of the US.. the Catholic Church easily leads in terms of fucking the world up. But inside the US, they aren't even a major player anymore.

What are you talking about? The catholic church in the united states is basically child molesters inc. Not to mention the Catholic league is one of the most devisive forces among evangelicals in the United states. And believe me the Catholic church has way more money and pull than the church of scientology. Are you kidding me? The church of scientology is nowhere close in blood either. The crusades, the spanish inquisition, the european witch hunts, the salem witch hunts, the continuing violence in Ireland. I'm gonna have to put the Catholic church way above the church of scientology. As far as the goverment goes, the christian and catholic denominations haven't just infiltrated the government, they are the government essentially. Look at our president for instance, christian fundamentalist leader. The church of scientology is bad, but they're a small blip on the radar compared to the "major players" in world religion.

[Libra]

Wow guys, just because people in religions do stupid stuff, doesn't mean the whole group is like that. It's basically being stereotypical/racist but for religions sake. Just because. let's say 10 "chrisitians" murder 10 people in a killing spree at the mall, doesn't make them all murders and bad people. It's pretty shallow thinking.

[Fury]

I'm sorry ive offended you, I dont have a grudge against any particular religion, I simply abhor them all. Its a ridiculous delusion, I call them how i see them.

[Mistral]

What are you talking about? The catholic church in the united states is basically child molesters inc. Not to mention the Catholic league is one of the most devisive forces among evangelicals in the United states.

The first is, in my opinion, mostly media hype. Bashing Catholics has been an American past time since the Puritans first left England because of the Stuarts (and the whole losing the Civil War thing, but you know how that goes...one moment you're Lord Protector of England, next thing the Royalists are digging your decomposing body out of the ground to chop your head off and stick it on a pike). I mean, what, 0.006% of the priests in America accused is a lot? The fact that the Catholic Church tried to defend them with all its power was upsetting, but it's hardly "child molesters inc."

As for the second, well, better divisive among the opposition than among the allies, yeah?

EDIT:

The crusades, the spanish inquisition, the european witch hunts, the salem witch hunts, the continuing violence in Ireland. I'm gonna have to put the Catholic church way above the church of scientology. As far as the goverment goes, the christian and catholic denominations haven't just infiltrated the government, they are the government essentially.

Oh, gods, you cannot believe that. You seriously cannot believe that the Catholics were behind Salem. Heck, the Church didn't really get into witch hunts in general for some time, because according to canon law, just believing that witches existed was heresy until around the 15th century and the Inquisition looking for new targets. Very little of it, to be perfectly honest, was directly Church, but just...people being petty, self-absorbed, greedy...basically, people being people. Very rural regions, very turbulent regions...these tended to have the worst, and civil authorities tended to be just as bad about it. Same with Ireland. The IRA (Catholic) and the Unionists (very much not Catholic) fight quite a bit, and both sides share equal blame. As for the last...oy, I shalln't even touch it.
Purely anecdotal, but I love the story about the Catholic priest who went to a village in northern Galicia (Leon?), took over the witch-hunts from the secular authorities, and proceeded to find everyone accused innocent due to lack of proof. It just turns so many Hollywood assumptions on their heads.

[Libra]

You didn't offend me, I'm sort of agnostic right now, but leaning more towards Christianity. Trying to figure it all out and explore. I'm more into believe God, and not practice set, organize religions, because they never worked for me before. I like having a personal relationship with God, but there's more to it than that, and I'm just confused.

Anyway, getting back on topic, again, you didn't offend me, I just think it's shallow thinking. If you're like that with religions, I can't see you being any different towards racism. It's the same boat.

[Evans]

You didn't offend me, I'm sort of agnostic right now, but leaning more towards Christianity. Trying to figure it all out and explore. I'm more into believe God, and not practice set, organize religions, because they never worked for me before. I like having a personal relationship with God, but there's more to it than that, and I'm just confused.

Anyway, getting back on topic, again, you didn't offend me, I just think it's shallow thinking. If you're like that with religions, I can't see you being any different towards racism. It's the same boat.

Being who you are and choosing one faith or some other can't be seen as the same thing, so disliking religions and being a racist are entirely different.

[Fury]

I think religious organizations opress the people and i have a problem with all of them. I used to be like you, let me give you some advice, you rule your life, not some god or being. Almost only counts with horseshoes and hand grenades, you cant kind of be christian, if you're not going to believe parts of it, why believe any of it? And furthermore, the charge of conparing me to racism is unfair. Christians get to say I'm a heathen and I'm going to hell, and whenever i criticize them, I'm a biggot. Typical christian dogma. I'm not surprised.

[Libra]

Yeah, I probably didn't explain right, and I don't mean to call you or anyone something they're not.
I just feel it is shallow to say in one way or another, even in a subtle manner, that all people in a certain religion act the same.
It may seem like it, but I assure you it's not like that. Only people who get too caught up in their labels and types and have issues from the start. They're the idiots who ruin it for everyone. It happens to any group and label. That's why I hate labels and stuff. It's just dumb.

It's a very touche subject.

[Fury]

Of course i dont mean every catholic, i never said every catholic, There have been thousands of claims of molestation just in California alone (what can i say people like to sue here, its a california thing) I dont have the nationwide numbers(looking as we speak). The bottom line is, The catholic church is an organization that collects millions of dollars, pays no taxes, lobbys congress, and molests a certain percentage of their child membership. That would make them a child molesting organization, by strict terms. But back to my original point, the church of scientology is a small blip on the radar compared to the major religions in the united states. I think the bigger problem is organized religion in general. You cant make it illeagal, but separation of church and state is absolutely necessary.

[Fury]

The first is, in my opinion, mostly media hype. Bashing Catholics has been an American past time since the Puritans first left England because of the Stuarts (and the whole losing the Civil War thing, but you know how that goes...one moment you're Lord Protector of England, next thing the Royalists are digging your decomposing body out of the ground to chop your head off and stick it on a pike). I mean, what, 0.006% of the priests in America accused is a lot? The fact that the Catholic Church tried to defend them with all its power was upsetting, but it's hardly "child molesters inc."

As for the second, well, better divisive among the opposition than among the allies, yeah?

EDIT:

Oh, gods, you cannot believe that. You seriously cannot believe that the Catholics were behind Salem. Heck, the Church didn't really get into witch hunts in general for some time, because according to canon law, just believing that witches existed was heresy until around the 15th century and the Inquisition looking for new targets. Very little of it, to be perfectly honest, was directly Church, but just...people being petty, self-absorbed, greedy...basically, people being people. Very rural regions, very turbulent regions...these tended to have the worst, and civil authorities tended to be just as bad about it. Same with Ireland. The IRA (Catholic) and the Unionists (very much not Catholic) fight quite a bit, and both sides share equal blame. As for the last...oy, I shalln't even touch it.
Purely anecdotal, but I love the story about the Catholic priest who went to a village in northern Galicia (Leon?), took over the witch-hunts from the secular authorities, and proceeded to find everyone accused innocent due to lack of proof. It just turns so many Hollywood assumptions on their heads.

Ok salem was wrongly attributed to the catholics, my mistake. I'm not out against any major organized religion, im not trying to pick on catholicism particularly, as I'm trying to get the point across, that the major religions commit way more attrocities, than the church of scientology could dream of at this point.

http://www.bluegrassreport.org/ChurchBodies.gif
this map should be a little helpful as well.

[Libra]

Well, this country was founded on God, and I think it should stick that way. It's never hurt anyone until now, that everyone seems to have the right to complain and get what they want. It seems everyone's abusing their power here in the US and slowly and subtly, it's being taken away.
Maybe it's not the right religion, who knows, but it's morals and beliefs are good for a country. Everyone's entitles to their own opinion and belief, but I think it's kind of dumb when they then try to force it or take it away from others. Something that was once fine.
Just doesn't make sense to me.

[Mistral]

http://www.bluegrassreport.org/ChurchBodies.gif
this map should be a little helpful as well.

Interesting. I wonder if they're all Roman Catholic, or if we start running into Old Catholic, Orthodox Catholic, Polish National Catholic, or all of the other Independent Catholic churches that have been running around since the Second Laterean set off its own minor schism with the "Papal Infallibility" schtick.

[Fury]

your statement is contradictory, you say that everyone is entitled to their own opinion or belief, but you counter by saying our country is founded on god. What does that imply for people who dont believe in god such as myself? Am i not entitled to the benefits of the first ammendment, or is that reserved for people who believe what you believe as well. Furthermore, most of the founding fathers were NOT creationists, they were profiteers (successful ones might I add). As far as morals and values go; its not up to a church or government to decide my morals and values. They are not universal, they are individual. As an existentialist, i believe that everyone holds their own truth, morals and values, they aren't to be dictated by a religion, or anyone else for that matter. I could debate this all day with you and we'll get nowhere, you believe as you do, and i'll continue not to.