The Hangout: Panda doesn't T$#@^! *Mikey dies a slow painful death*

[Dinosaurman]

		Knock Knock? Who's there? Gun. Gun,who? Gun Gun ? My Gun told me that joke.

[Mistral]

A ban on guns won't do anything but increase the number of gun-related crimes, as criminals realize that law-abiding citizens are less likely to be armed than they were before.

Funny story...

Victorian and Australian rates of firearm related deaths before reforms (1979–86) were steady. After initial Victorian reforms, a significant downward trend was seen for numbers of all firearm related deaths between 1988 and 1995 (17.3% in Victoria compared with the rest of Australia, p<0.0001). A further significant decline between 1997 and 2000 followed the later reforms. After the later all state legislation, similar strong declines occurred in the rest of Australia from 1997 (14.0% reduction compared with Victoria, p = 0.0372).

Although there are other factors affecting rates of murder, suicide and unintentional injury, a comparison of data in Canada with US data suggests that access to handguns may play a role. While the murder rate without guns in the US is slightly higher (1.7 times) than that in Canada, the murder rate with handguns is 15 times the Canadian rate (Table 1).

[_M_]

Give it time. Assuming a perfect ban and adequate border control (Mexico is having serious gun problems thanks to American gun control policy, for instance - porous borders work both ways), gun availability will drop quite a bit over time, as guns begin to break down or run out of ammunition faster than more are manufactured. Naturally, I don't even believe a perfect ban is necessary, as long as appropriate legal measures are taken.

Good to see you edited it out, at least.


I disagree that it is an adequate method to protect your family. Mistakes, accidents, theft of your firearm (ah, irony bites back)...naturally, of course, I tend to the taser, myself, if you're that afraid of your surroundings. Less lethal, still effective.

If there is still manufacturing of firearms there are always gonna be ways for criminals to get their hands on them. Sure, you could stop the manufacturing, but that would lead to other problems. No law in itself can lower crime with illegally obtained guns. It has to be a joint effort with law and the people.

If I'm out of the house and someone breaks in, they have about 90 seconds to go upstairs find the safe and break into the safe to get my guns. If I'm in the house and someone breaks in, they got other problems than breaking my safe.

[Panda Man]

America is probably fucked now anyway, banning guns now will just give the criminals an edge because you were stupid enough to allow them in the first place. Shame.

Excuse the cliché, but honestly, if I had a dime for every time I heard "America is going collapse" or "America is fucked" in just my lifetime, I'd be pretty fucking rich.

[Huey Kruthas]

There was something in my area where you could turn in your unloaded guns and you get a gift certificate for a clothing store. No questions asked.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...801200654/1004

In exchange for each gun turned in, clothing store Forman Mills is donating a $50 gift certificate, while supplies last. Organizers say no questions will be asked of those who turn in guns, nor are they required to give their name.

[Dinosaurman]

Firearms are great,

it's a much cooler super power than Icearms.

[Deach]

Excuse the cliché, but honestly, if I had a dime for every time I heard "America is going collapse" or "America is fucked" in just my lifetime, I'd be pretty fucking rich.

I don't mean it like that. I just meant that because you allowed guns in the first place, it's going to be a lot harder for you to ever control them.

(amerikkka should still be knocked down a few pegs)

[Panda Man]

Funny story...

Remember, these are bans on handguns/concealable weapons, and not guns completely.

Also, this debate is pointless.

[Mistral]

If there is still manufacturing of firearms there are always gonna be ways for criminals to get their hands on them. Sure, you could stop the manufacturing, but that would lead to other problems. No law in itself can lower crime with illegally obtained guns. It has to be a joint effort with law and the people.

That's true of all laws, you realize, and thus doesn't have any especial bearing on gun control. The truest axiom of the police officer is that the law can only be enforced as long as people don't figure out he's just a bloke in a funny suit.

If I'm out of the house and someone breaks in, they have about 90 seconds to go upstairs find the safe and break into the safe to get my guns. If I'm in the house and someone breaks in, they got other problems than breaking my safe.

Well, that actually shifts the spin slightly in your particular case. A pity more people don't use gun locks or safes to keep their guns out of the reach of children or criminals. Mind you, my opinion that there are other methods of protection that are equally effective that do not require firearm ownership remains, though.

Remember, these are bans on handguns/concealable weapons, and not guns completely.

Also, this debate is pointless.

That's OK. I'm not advocating a complete ban; just that gun regulation is actually pretty decent.

And pretty much, but that's true of most things on the interwebs.

[_M_]

Ban on guns completely, yes. Ban on just concealable weapons, no. Home owners will still have shotguns and rifles, and it will beomce harder for criminals to obtain pistols.

That'll be good, because my guns are much more accurate and have far better range than any pistol.

[Panda Man]

I don't mean it like that. I just meant that because you allowed guns in the first place, it's going to be a lot harder for you to ever control them.

(amerikkka should still be knocked down a few pegs)

Indeed.

Also, may I ask where the whole Amerikkka thing has come from? KKK is pretty much dead

[Dinosaurman]

Indeed.

Also, may I ask where the whole Amerikkka thing has come from? KKK is pretty much dead

Negative.


And your from GA?

[Deach]

Indeed.

Also, may I ask where the whole Amerikkka thing has come from? KKK is pretty much dead

I picked it up in IRC I think.

[Panda Man]

Negative.


And your from GA?

I didn't say it didn't still exist

I picked it up in IRC I think.

I've seen it before, it's pretty stupid IMO. I figured it must have some derogatory meaning though

[Deach]

Shit ain't I.