The Hangout: I didn't need to see Harry Potter's wand.

[Panda Man]

Why thank you my friend. Losing my job might have been the best thing that has happened to me since my nuts dropped.

2 great things in one day eh? I wish I was that lucky.


*expects to be killed by skullfucking in 3, 2, 1...*

[Panda Man]

Hey, fuck you buddy!

*Insert long-winded tirade here*

[Cyberxion]

2 great things in one day eh? I wish I was that lucky.


*expects to be killed by skullfucking in 3, 2, 1...*

Log

[Evans]

Tsk, hun, that's not evne 50 %. It could've been though.

(Things are still going well for me. I think )

Find some other lackey!

(Cool. )

Well at least that way I cant be assumed gay =D

Yeah... no.

Yeah, I fed him after midnight. Always wanted to see what sort of Gremlin he'd turn into. He looks oddly like a fire hydrant. And smells like your grandmother.

Yeah, I guess in a situation like that, we'd be beyond assuming.

[Panda Man]

Log

: eh, come again?

[Evans]

Hey, fuck you buddy!

*Insert long-winded tirade here*

Log

Shit.

[Cyberxion]

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Dan Hsu
"EGMShoe"
Dan Hsu's Page
Rank: EGM Editor
Total Points: 146,765
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Currently: Offline
Last Visit: Sep 05, 2007
ABOUT Dan
Sex: M
Age: 35
Location: Berkeley , CA

Halo 3 vs. Killzone 2
A lot of different message boards are blowing up over our E3 awards in the October issue of EGM (with Silent Hill 5 on the cover). Specifically, some people are crying foul over our decision to give Halo 3 the "Lil Award" for Smartest A.I. and Killzone 2 the award for Dumbest A.I.

Bias! Moneyhats! Fanboyism! Well, it's been getting so much attention, I decided to answer my own FAQ about this, to help clarify how we picked those two games.

A Microsoft game vs. a Sony game. How convenient.
OK, that wasn't really a question, but it's a legit comment. We didn't pick Halo 3 and Killzone 2 specifically to go against each other or to cause extra controversy. We voted as a staff (including the entire 1UP Network, which includes 1UP.com and GameVideos.com), and we honestly and independently came up with Halo 3 at the top of the list for best A.I. and Killzone 2 at the "top" for worst. We didn't even think of it as Microsoft vs. Sony thing until we realized that both games won their respective categories.

But is it fair to pick Halo 3 because you guys actually got a chance to play it? Versus Killzone 2, which was only on demo, played by the developers.
Good question, but no...our previous hands-on experience with Halo 3 (for our last cover story) did not factor into the voting. Very few of us actually played single-player Halo 3 when we did our cover story, and when I voted, I kept that game time out of mind for these awards. I based my best/worst A.I. votes purely on what was shown to me at E3...and Halo 3 and Killzone 2 were both on equal grounds there. Both were not playable by us, only played for us by their respective developers, and based on those E3 demos and those demos alone, we voted the way we did. I saw excellent A.I. from Halo 3 specifically from the E3 demo, and I saw an extreme example of bad A.I. from Killzone 2 (see below)...also at E3. That's why I voted for those two games for those respective categories.

But there's gotta be some other, lesser-profile games with worse A.I. than Killzone 2.
Based on what we've seen and what we voted on, totally fairly, Killzone 2 nabbed the award. Part of the problem is, the Killzone 2 showed some very noticeable flaws. It wasn't like the enemies were just standing around. Like we mentioned in the write-up, the bad guys were actually jumping out of cover to get *in* the line of fire. It's like they wanted to get shot. That alone, unfortunately, made Killzone 2 look worse (A.I.-wise) than it probably is.

So you guys hate Killzone 2, huh?
Shut up, you stupid FAQ man. The write-up in EGM greatly compliments Killzone 2 as a whole. We're just making fun of one specific thing: that whole "jumping out of cover" business.

OK, then you must hate Sony.
Heh, check out how many good awards the company picked up in the same feature. Oh by the way--this should be obvious, but in case you didn't know, moneyhats are mutually exclusive. You can't accept one from Microsoft *AND* Sony at the same time. It's in the contracts.

Oh by the way again--this should be obvious, but in case you didn't know, I was joking just now.

Isn't it unfair to compare a game that's still months away from release (Killzone 2) to a game that's almost finished (Halo 3)?
Oh, for sure, but that's part of the problem for any E3 judging...all games are at different points in their development. But we still have E3 awards in EGM. We still have our annual E3 opinionated guide in EGM. The industry even has its own E3 awards. Are all of them fair? No...not if you look at how far along each individual title is in its development. But then again, yes...the companies are putting these products out for the media to see, and as we've done many times in the past, we'll judge them (knowing full well they're incomplete games). So in the context of these being E3 games and E3 demos, we're treating them all equally and as fairly as possible.

Shouldn't you be in mourning or something?
Actually, Shoe killed himself after last Saturday's Michigan football game. This is his ghost writing this.
Posted at Tue, 04 Sep 2007 22:25:55 PDT


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Comments (179)
Wow
TheNintendoTheory
Posted: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 22:33:12 PDT
Can't you guys write anything without people getting offended by it? Personally, you were right about Killzone 2, the enemies did jump out into the open for you to easily shoot them. But hey, it's cool of you to address any concerns angry fanboy rants with actual facts.


- Cody

Oh Good Lord
Goodfella2487
Posted: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 22:49:04 PDT
/puts up flame shield.

More EGM bashing on PS3. Thank goodness Shane has the gonads to defend it. You're only widening the already colossal gap between 360 and PS3 owners with articles like this.

I'm making up a new proverb
Panda_Bear_Shenyu
Posted: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 23:09:41 PDT
Only one that feels guilty sees the necessity to defend oneself.
Amirite?

Anyhow, you guys wrote the magazine, just chill, it's not like people not liking your opinion (myself included)is going to bring an end to the world or something.

Besides, it's hard to not see this as controversial when you hate LBP. LOL

WOw
Joe2015
Posted: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 23:19:22 PDT
The ongoing saga Xbox 360 eveangelists vs. Sony fanboyism continue. What ever happened to platform agnosticism? Seriously.

At least....
pswii60
Posted: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 23:29:55 PDT
At this rate there won't be a Killzone 3 vs Halo 4 debate. KZ has gotten too much bad press, from the CG target video fiasco to the bad reviews of the PSP version to worst AI of show, the game would have to SLAY and convince people to buy PS3s in droves to survive. Halo just has to show up.

HSU you are Microsoft ...
Vojkan82
Posted: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 23:43:42 PDT
Hsu you are Microsoft and Halo fanboy, i think you even admit first one(Microsoft fanboy) in one old episode of 1up show and it is REALLY EASY to asume you are HUGE HALO FAN. But it doesn't really matter. What matters is that you should not try to explain to us what is unexplainable. Writing this kind of stuff you guys are hurting your own magazine and site. I don't live in USA so it doesn't matter that much what i think, but a lot of people there that likes PS3 will stop buying your magazine(ignore your site) because slowly but surely you guys are creating reputation of being "Xbox 360 magazine". And stuff like this and "Kojima eat dick" from last week cost you a lot of credibility.




I can't believe...
retroyoshi
Posted: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 00:00:07 PDT
...you have to tell people this stuff.

I also find it comical that whenever you write about something like this, the fanboys come out of the woodwork again...

*sigh*
GnaM
Posted: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 00:01:38 PDT
LOL, I saw the story erupt on N4G and cringed as I saw all the fanboys crying over this. They just don't get it...when it comes to E3 awards, it's all about what was shown, not what will be shown when the game is complete. Of course, most of these idiots didn't even read the story, so they had no idea it was even related to E3...they just saw a headline involving Halo 3 and Killzone 2 and starting flaming away.

Not that I'm trying to argue one way or another but, can someone please show me the videos where the KZ2 AI is jumping into fire, and the Halo 3 AI is doing something incredible? TBH, I found it very difficult dig up any E3 footage of the 2 games that provided any helpful gameplay-related insights at all - let alone remarkable glimpses of the way the AI behaved. It was all "cutscenes this" and "graphics that".

Hsu - u are paid
gunnar2906
Posted: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 00:16:39 PDT
Tell this BS to teenagars Hsu

From all variety of games you choose KZ2. It is the next sep of MS propaganda against PS3. After LAIR underestimatating reviews and Heavenly Sword bashing it became rudiculous. To give a game the lowest score in AI aspect when noone even played demo. Are u kidding?

No, I bet it is too serious then an ordinary reader can imagine. The real fact is that acting like that Hsu you have only one reason - it is not to give PS3 to take leadership the easy way. You may be a the 360 fan or justa paid by MS but you did the things that it is very important for MS - you bash BluRay format.

As far as it is known the most of HD-DVD encoded using VC-1 codec while BR movies uses MPEG4. MPEG4 is an open codec while VC-1 is just renamed Microsoft's WMV format. property of MS. If HD-DVD wins MS will have licence fee from EVERY HD-DVD disc sold. Big money, huh? Maybe some grits of this juicy pie reached your pokets?

Or do you really think that someone needs this console or format wars but MS?
I know that as some MS bigwig offiial said "We are going to earn money our old fashioned way". Stealing technologies and bashing competitors?

uh.
Mr. dude
Posted: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 00:26:54 PDT
you should have stopped when you could have. also, im going to be sending all your magazines back to you because i really think you guys are being dumbed down a bit. i was subscribed to you guys after OPM was closed down, what a shame. at least the people from OPM were normal.

Hey zbot!
shaka-de-virgo
Posted: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 00:33:01 PDT
i hate the "shoe" guy. It would be cool n funny is he was passed out and someone tattoed a PS logo on he's forehead.
always loving nintendo and now even microsoft always spreading FUD againts Sony.

Not so fast!
Goldarsun
Posted: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 00:40:11 PDT
Moneyhats may be mutually exclusive, but I have it from a strong source that EGM has been accepting money vests, too! Does your greed know no bounds?

I have a PS3...
rmsk8r05
Posted: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 00:50:08 PDT
and Killzone 2 is one those games that I want, but yeah it's unfair to judge games at their different point of development. I remember reading an article in EGM about GRAW were the developer of the game said something about how all these a demoes/videos will look really nice but you actually have to add A.I., sound etc they will take a hit on graphics. That hey must make some changes to the graphics so the game will run smoothly. So dispite the graphic looking overly amazing in real time right now, will the graphic look the same when Gorilla games make more additions/changes to the core design of Killzone 2.




Wow
TheNintendoTheory
Posted: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 00:51:34 PDT
Look at all the mature little gamers coming here, so safe behind the anonymity of the internets. Indeed, they must feel so great after insulting someone who knows far more about the gaming industry than they do. Oh, but they always do this. It's what fanboys do.

Let me say this: EGM, Dan Hsu, 1up, they aren't biased. How do I know this? Because Nintendo fans, Sony fans, Microsoft fans, they all complain non-stop about the magazine whenever they run a negative story. But guess what? Your precious companies are not infallible. Believe it or not, they make mistakes.

Instead of complaining about what EGM wrote, how about you question the companies? If EGM points out problems in a game, the developers can go in, fix the problem, and make a better game. In the long run, criticism helps a lot more than blind allegiance does.


- Cody

Props to you
Joshua7
Posted: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 00:56:20 PDT
For even taking time out of your job to explain this. You didn't have to do this but you did yet people still trash you.

I'm with you on this. Even though I only own a 360, I still like the PS3 and Wii and find that each one has their own things that make them unique and fun in their own way. Nevertheless though you can't deny bad A.I. when it's clearly looking like it's trying to get shot. Microsoft games have had their fair share of bad and sometimes down right terrible A.I. I don't see how people can get so upset about this. After all what matters most is what the person themselves think right? I mean you guys and gals just tell us your thoughts and your experience and what you though from what you were shown to give us a better idea really. People shouldn't get so offended. I don't remember reading EGM saying that Halo 3 better A.I. than Killzone. I remember reading who won the best and worst. How is saying that one Microsoft game that has good A.I. and one Sony game that has bad A.I. a *fanboy* comment ? It's not, at least to me and shouldn't to anyone else. EGM never compared the two after all.

We should be thanking EGM after all. Because of this award and all the controversy it's started, the Killzone guys might kick it up a notch and say "He we have to fix this" or that problem might already be fixed.

Thanks though for taking time as said above out of your job to give a more detailed explanation about the awards. I don't think that's required of your job but you still did it so thank you.

@NintendoTheory...
rmsk8r05
Posted: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 00:56:42 PDT
you are right absolutely right, these fanboys want nothing else then to be right and defend their brands. Like I said in last comment that I edited way too much on, it really unfair to judge a game in any stage of development, we will all have to wait and see when the game comes out.

Mickey Mouse...
iBaldie
Posted: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 01:02:08 PDT
There should have been a category for "Disney Character Look a Likes" Halo 3 would have won.

Where are the next Gen graphics?? I am not a Halo player (before you say it, I am not a "PS3 Fanboy" either I used to have a 360) but to me Halo 3 looks just the same as 2 and 1 graphics wise, is the gameplay next Gen??

If you are a hardcore fan forgive me, I understand, I am the same with other games, BUT, I really cant see the appeal to non fans, I am a hardcore Gamer and always want the best graphics, visuals and gameplay, I'm sorry but to me graphics wise Halo 3 just doesnt cut it.

Asphinctersayswhat?
Robonmynob
Posted: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 01:05:04 PDT
Why do you people get all misty between the knees whenever an editor praises Halo 3 and "The $oft"?? Since when is it a crime for the staff of a video game publication to commend.... hell even endorse arguably the most popular game in video gaming history?? You wanna know why it seems like they are always bashing the PS3? Because there is only a few games in its very meager library that are worth a damn...or even half a damn for that matter. Its kinda hard not to be a M$ fanboy these days because its their box that is delivering the AAA titles and keeping me a fan of gaming.


Wow
EGMShoe
Posted: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 01:08:29 PDT
This is nuts what kind of things people claim that I have said. Is the Internet *really* this crazy?

Can anyone provide proof of me saying:

1. I am a Microsoft fanboy. (I did say I'm a Halo fan. I'm also a Mario fan, a Castlevania fan, a Splinter Cell fan, a Ratchet and Clank fan, an Advance Wars fan, and right now, I'm a really big Super Stardust HD fan. So? If you don't want your game writing being done by people who don't like games...you might be out of luck. Or you may need to look for certain mainstream newspapers for your news.)

2. Kojima eat dick. (Is this from some podcast somewhere? I haven't heard this one at all.)

3. Heavenly Sword bashing. (I think I said I didn't like it as much as God of War--which is another Sony series, by the way--but I don't recall ever bashing it)

4. HD-DVD is better than Blu-Ray. (Wha? This one is really far-fetched. In fact, I've said in the past I fully expect Blu-Ray to win the movie-format wars, and I personally own three times as many Blu-Rays than I do HD-DVDs.)

Heh.

And did no one read the article? For crying out loud, Sony did really well overall! It's so crazy to see this: Sony wins several really good awards...but people see one bad one and guess what? We're anti-Sony. It's so ridiculous, it's kinda funny, actually.

hehehe
LorenzFerus
Posted: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 01:22:39 PDT
Come on dude, I wasn't born yestederday. You reek of Halo and XBOX fanboy. Everyone feels it, is everyone wrong? But it's okay. I think everyone is welcome to their own choice. I mean forget that you work for a magazine. You're still a gamer after all. You're entitled to your favorites.

As far as Killzone, the game could have potential and it's probably far from finished, it's not coming till fall 2008 probably. It shouldn't be judged yet but if your awards are based simply on what you saw at E3, and Halo 3 had better AI, then it was better. End of story.

This doesn't imply your final review of a completed version of the game. People should just leave it at that.

...
LorenzFerus
Posted: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 01:27:59 PDT
...

Eh, no one wins on the internet!
glassadam
Posted: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 01:30:54 PDT
Good luck trying, but it's just not worth it!

Shoe, I liked the article. The only qualm I have with it is that I wish it could've been longer! Instead of awards and a list for the Opinionated Guide, how about some write-ups for some of the higher-profile games? Then maybe we could all be treated to another sweet episode of EGMLive like that one with the Too Human guy.

Otherwise, like I said, great article (and issue in general-- I'm really enjoying it). Don't listen to these faceless haters.

You should just tell it like it is...
mario_militia
Posted: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 01:31:09 PDT
Halo and Halo 2, well recieved by many critics(and gamers alike). Isn't hard to research. Killzone(1), not so much. Halo 3, highly anticipated. Killzone 2. Honestly, how many sci-fi FPS does each system need? Just direct people to GameVideos and they can see the undisputed truth. Dumb A.I. RIGHT THERE. ON THE VIDEO. KILLZONE 2. The only anti-Sony party here is the developers making stupid enemies.

BTW
EGMShoe
Posted: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 01:44:10 PDT
It's not just feeling a need to defend ourselves here (Panda)...it's that people all over on message boards are getting it wrong (specifically, saying how we unfairly compared Halo 3 because we actually played that game, which I clarify in my blog post). I just wanted people to know the truth.

Sigh...makes me miss the old days when I was getting blasted for being anti-Microsoft. (after our infamous Peter Moore interview)

Here Hsu, let me help you see "Kojima eat dick"
Vojkan82
Posted: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 01:53:35 PDT
http://www.n4g.com/gaming/NewsCom-64393.aspx





http://forums.gametrailers.com/showthread.php?t=163858

Opinions!
UISjackolope
Posted: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 02:35:28 PDT
only certain people are allowed to have them, apperantly.

Hsu
gunnar2906
Posted: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 02:42:37 PDT
Hsu - you are an editor of a pretty popular electronic media magazine. That means that you have some responsibilities for your words and accountable to your readers. You are not an ordinary gamer with your own preffers. You have to be something more to be an editor of a respectable magazine, because your and my opinion have different weight for others. Aren't you?



I may tell people that a new Volvo model has some big problem. I didn't drive it, but I watched a TV commercial and noticed that the car tilted too much while steering. It let me think that the car has a big problem with weels suspension. It is obvious, everyone watched this commercial!

Isn't it a BS? You wrote quite the same about KZ2's AI.

If you are an XBox 360 lover say it - ok, gays and gals, I luv my box so I think that all PS3 games were/are/will be a PoS. And KZ2 too. Thank. Nuff said.

Hsu
gunnar2906
Posted: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 02:42:39 PDT

[Cyberxion]

Copying and pasting the text from a random web page is fun, and sure to annoy!

[Panda Man]

So I'm trying to use a proxy to stream 2 downloads from MU.

Your IP address 208.179.*.* has just downloaded 83804061 bytes. Please wait 2 minutes, then try your download again.

wow...

[Evans]

Cyber... for that wall o' text, I'ma cut j00, mang. I'ma cut j00!

[SA-X]

Rapidshare owns your ass if you use a proxy. Annoying bastard it is

[Cyberxion]

Cyber... for that wall o' text, I'ma cut j00, mang. I'ma cut j00!

Ow. I am cut.

[Evans]

So I'm trying to use a proxy to stream 2 downloads from MU.



wow...

That means...?

Why don't you just reset your router like everyone else?

[Panda Man]

Copying and pasting the text from a random web page is fun, and sure to annoy!

You realize that if any body does this, you'll need to proof read the post to check for violations such as warez, right?

[Evans]

Ow. I am cut.

Out of the production, sir. Kindly fuck off.