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Thread: The brit Out: There's a new (old) sheriff in town :O

  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Ivo Robotnik View Post
    I'm inclined to disagree. The story of XII was pretty decent, but the characters, in a character-driven RPG, were utterly unlikable gits. This didn't help their case at all in any way.

    Just to do the roll-call.

    Balthier: Okay, so I kinda liked him, if only because he's a cynic.
    Vaan: "I want to be a sky pirate!" Do you have any other motivations to be with the team? "Motivations?" Moving on.
    Penelo: "I'm following Vaan. This is literally everything my character has going for it." Also pretty much everything you say throughout the game. You got SHAFTED, dear.
    Ashe: "I'm a jilted princess trying to restore my kingd- wait, I'm trying to defeat Archaede- Okay, sorry, back to my own kingdom."
    Basch: "I'm here to protect my princess and provide plot insulation as to why Vaan stays around. Then I wrap up that plot point in about as much time as it takes to make a sandwich. Shame, really."
    Fran: "I'm the obligatory titties, now with built-in bunny ears."

    The story itself was fairly deep, but if I hate the people I'm supposed to be carting around the world, something's going to have to give eventually. Plus, they really have no driving reason to stick together. At all. Vaan is quite possibly the most uninteresting protagonist of a Final Fantasy game ever, including Final Fantasy I.
    Eh, I suppose I'm bored enough to respond to this with a mini essay.

    I keep telling you Vaan is not the progagonist. Ashe is. In Matsuno's original concept Basch was supposed to be the main character (old concept art supports this) and Vaan and Penelo were not going to be in the game AFAIK, or at least not as central characters. So feel free to ignore them. I suppose they added them because they were stupid like that - lololol we need more pretty boys because that's what appeals to fans, etc.

    There's this conflict about Ashe and her reliance on the Nethicite, and whether or not she will go down the path of a tyrant drunk on power, and basically become the new Dynast King. There's a talk between her and Balthier about this on Phon Coast if I recall. For a while she's somewhat ambiguous in that regard. I would've liked to see her join the dark side, but in the end the spirit of her late husband/boyfriend kept her back. I thought she was a good central character as far as the plot is concerned.

    You found Basch's loyalty to Ashe boring, but it is key when considering his relationship with Vossler and more importantly Gabranth. His character is about the conflict between brotherhood and his sense of duty. There's even a fantastic cutscene with him and Gabranth near the end of the game. I dunno, maybe it's just me, but I found it really quite good.

    Fran had more development than just bunny-ears and fanservice, but I agree that it wasn't quite enough. However, she did have her moments when you visit her sisters in her woods. You can consider it her own little character arc if you wish. It's actually a rather sad scene if you think about it (she basically abandons her family/tribe for the greater good), but it would've been nice if it was elaborated on a bit more. Still, I felt it was ncie enough for a non-central playable character.

    As for why the party is together. I'm pretty sure I remember Vaan having a cutscene (it might've been in the Garif camp) sometime in the story that he wants to find his own way in life. Following the party happens to help him achieve that goal. He is somewhat forced, though, so I'd rather not dwell on it for reasons mentioned above (most notably is that he's actually just a side-character) I don't think it needs to be explained why Ashe and Basch are together. Balthier might've been the guy who "stole" Ashe as she instructed, but he is also drawn to Archades because of Cid, who happens to be his father, if you remember. The talk on Phon Coast I mentioned earlier is exactly about this - he doesn't want Ashe to make the same mistakes his obsessed father did, so he's keeping an eye on her. Fuck Penelo, though, no one cares about her. She probably wouldn't have been in the game in the first place, so whatever.

    You fail to mention just how fascinating Vayne is as a main villain/anti-hero. His goal is a noble one, even if he doesn't care about crushing all sorts of opposition to achieve it. I particularly liked his final few moments with Larsa in which it is really quite subtly hinted that he cares deeply for his younger brother and wants him to become a just ruler should he himself fail (pretty sure he left him in Gabranth's care for this reason). It is also notable that he didn't have Larsa assassinated, even though he had the chance to do so. The scene that stands out most to me is when Larsa accuses him of being "wrong", and Vayne simply replies with "Stop me, then.". This is basically telling him that he should stand on his own two feet, and if he wishes to become a strong ruler, he should follow what he believes in, even if it means turning against his own brother (which he finally does before the last bossfight).

    That's just my take on it, though. Basically what I'm saying is that it simply caters to a different sort of audience (which you're not part of), but that doesn't mean it was bad IMO. It's rather a simple matter of "to each his own", like with most video games.

    /Ray-style wall of text

    Edit: Oh, and I don't think it needs to be said but I'm obviously writing this just for the sake of having a good discussion, nothing more.
    Last edited by Gare; 1st-October-2012 at 00:46.

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealSpiders View Post
    Ran downstairs to pick up something from the printer.

    Came back upstairs with an orange and without my paper.

    Good job, brain.
    Stomach wins!

    Flawless victory?

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie Monster View Post
    Sheik.

    I'm Lv 300 in RM
    Bro...I stopped at lv 103....
    God you're persistent

    (Luckily Farms of Fate is waaaaaaay easier )

    Next project = finishing Quest 64


    "I am... Sheik. One of the last of the Sheikah tribe..."

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by GunSlinger Boy View Post
    I hate Resident Evil, no way i'd pre-order that game (unless i was payed lots of money to do so, given for free or if my life depended on it)


    BTW i got a little bit into REDCDSE before i bore-quit.
    Which ones don't you like the survival horror, the action ones or none of them?

  5. #245
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    Hi Cookie.How are you?

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie Monster View Post
    Stomach wins!

    Flawless victory?
    It would appear so, much to the chagrin of my brain.

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealSpiders View Post
    It would appear so, much to the chagrin of my brain.
    Where is your damn willpower, maggot?!?


    "I am... Sheik. One of the last of the Sheikah tribe..."

  8. #248
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    hi,TRS.

  9. #249
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    My head hurts of exhaustion, there was a lot of time the last time I've made some exercise.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Portgaz D. Ace View Post
    Bro...I stopped at lv 103....
    God you're persistent

    (Luckily Farms of Fate is waaaaaaay easier )

    Next project = finishing Quest 64
    Why did you do it? Levelling up post game is super easy and high levelled enemies aren't as tough as they seem.
    I don't think you were playing for the story cos, well, it's anything but deep

    Quote Originally Posted by Sailor Venus View Post
    Hi Cookie.How are you?
    I'm pretty fine. But the question is how are you, Sailor V?

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie Monster View Post
    And you tend to anti-fanboy over things you find bad. I don't know how many times I've read you saying why don't you like XII

    But it's ok, you admit you like FF VII, that's cool in my book
    Heh, point taken and noted.

    If it starts to get annoying, do tell me, because I am prone to rant. At least I provided some qualification for it.

    I'll get to the huge essay about FF XII later in a backread (no offense, but I'm tired and have work tomorrow. Bedtime.)

    EDIT: Actually, stuff it, I'll reply here regardless.

    Vaan may not be the protagonist, I'll grant that. You're still running around as him wherever you go, and he's completely unlikeable. Earlier intentions aside, he's still in the game. I don't care what the concept said, I care about what I had to work with.

    I didn't find Basch's story boring as such, I found it forced. His loyalty to Ashe was predictable, but entirely logical. My primary issue is with the whole 'conflict with Vaan' thing due to the dead brother storyline which gets resolved five minutes later, and after that he just... doesn't do much.

    Balthier is probably the character who gets the most development out of the party, with, as you mention correctly, the entire storyline of his dad, Cid, being worked out magnificently.

    Fran, true, gets some development, but it's minimalistic at best, and she doesn't really have a great deal going for her.

    Penelo deserves no mention, since even the developers seemed to think she didn't.

    Ashe herself, I'll grant, is more complex than I gave her credit for. The conflict you describe, however, just didn't come forwards very well in the plot, and I just felt she wavered from one end of the spectrum to the other until she made the predictable choice to break away from the 'vile temptations of power' and so on.

    The party sticking together is still an issue for me though. I just don't see the bindings as you do. They're forced, at best. Basch sticking with Ashe, totally logical, certainly. Balthier sticking around? ...eh, perhaps, though he's too whimsical and might as well have left quite soon, especially after hearing the goal of Archaedes. Hate is a powerful attractive force, but Balthier could just as easily have decided 'what, go to dad? Stuff that!' Fran just sticks around because... eh, Balthier, I guess. And Vaan is there because of the whole self-discovery shtick, which just doesn't feature at all after that anymore.

    I also agree that Vayne's part in the story was very well done indeed, fitting the villain into a very unique mold. That, however, still wasn't the crux of my issue with the game. My issue with the game is that I didn't like the party, and while Vayne made up for a lot, I had to work with the six idiots in front of me. They weren't cast well, they were, in many ways, written poorly, failed to endear themselves at all, with the exception of Balthier who broke the mold with occasional moments of actual honest-to-god humour, and as a result, made playing the game something of a trial.

    I could also go into the technical aspects here, but I'm at a risk of typing a longer essay than the one I'm responding to. I'll just put it like this:

    I like mini-games. I like side-show things to do. Final Fantasy XII's mini-games and side-show things were... battles. Then there were the battles, with an option on battles, compounded by battles.

    Would it have killed them to add something other to do?
    Last edited by Dr. Ivo Robotnik; 1st-October-2012 at 00:48.

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by GradyWilson View Post
    I have the FF games for GB/GBA around somewhere...tried them...ughhh..bored to tears....

    I'll take this instead:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yzfwt...eature=related

    Can I has them?

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Ivo Robotnik View Post
    Heh, I agree with two thirds of that list. I don't like XII myself, for reasons I outlined earlier.

    Summary: Solid storyline, utterly unlikeable characters.

    VII is brilliant though, and I still feel that IX is an underappreciated gem. But then, I tend to fanboy over things I find good.
    Balthier was cool enough.

    Getting around to it... | Available via Retroshare 16/7.

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Portgaz D. Ace View Post
    Where is your damn willpower, maggot?!?
    Pfft, I lost that years ago. Alternatively, I willed this delicious orange into my stomach.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sailor Venus View Post
    hi,TRS.

  15. #255
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    I'm good. Just relaxing before the school week begins.

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