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Thread: Guilty conscience from using this site?

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    Default Guilty conscience from using this site?

    Hi, all. So, I'm not looking to criticize this website or get it in trouble - I'm just asking whether downloading a game here would still make me liable for a cease-or-desist warrant (even if I never get one) or if it is just generally an unlawful thing to do. I am specifically talking about an older, lesser known (sadly) game that didn't get much love when it was first released and not really for all roms/images. I know that morally it wouldn't be so different from buying a used copy of the game - but I think it might be available through the publishers website to buy, but what do you all think? I know that there a lot of people out there that couldn't care less about what they download, and I care, but if I'm being realistic, I don't really see the difference between buying a used copy versus downloading because neither gains any profit to the publisher. Really the only reason not to download it is simply to not to stain my reputation by making myself liable for a cease-or-desist warrant or even a lawsuit because like I said, it's not going to hurt the publisher anymore than if I were to buy it used on Amazon, but since it might be available on the website, I am not sure.

    Can I trust this websites services?

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    If you follow every law in D&D you're Lawful Neutral because you're unconcerned about what harm or how evil some laws are(i.e. abortion laws being considered evil whether anti or pro depending on the laws). It is illegal to walk slowly in Hialeah Florida, but there are no power-walking police enforcing that law. I highly doubt you'll receive a cease-and-desist order for downloading retro ROMs from publishers that don't exist anymore and/or that are incapable of profiting from the sale of old carts or discs. If I was concerned about legalities I'd stay away from downloading games from current-gen consoles because that's obvious piracy. I have no guilty conscience about anything I do, nor do I condone evil acts done by others; to me everything short of doing evil is everyone's freedom. In D&D terms methinks I'm Chaotic Neutral, you're probably going to get better legal advice from Jack Sparrow. Anyway, my opinion does not represent the views of this site or anyone else but myself. Anyone else's opinion here on this topic would be enjoyable to discuss.
    Last edited by Dill the Grey; 26th-February-2020 at 06:40. Reason: I have no guilty conscience, I might be psychopathic and there's no cure for psychopathy. At least I don't like evil-doing.

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    Thanks for the reply. There was one part of it, however that I wasn't really sure I understood. Could you please explain this part again?: "If I was concerned about legalities I'd stay away from downloading games from current-gen consoles because that's obvious piracy"?

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    Nintendo is probably the only one that would beat the life out of a poor person lying in the gutter. They're mentally damaged from all the famiclone piracy many years ago that they mostly couldn't do anything about.

    Spoiler warning:

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    Quote Originally Posted by professerproof40 View Post
    Thanks for the reply. There was one part of it, however that I wasn't really sure I understood. Could you please explain this part again?: "If I was concerned about legalities I'd stay away from downloading games from current-gen consoles because that's obvious piracy"?
    If you can go buy the game new at a store or online it's what will get you in hot water from your ISP(and possibly ICE in the US), you'll be taking a greater risk of receiving a cease-and-desist order from them. If it's current-gen there will be obvious piracy issues to address by the enforcement agencies.
    Quote Originally Posted by deadlegion View Post
    Nintendo is probably the only one that would beat the life out of a poor person lying in the gutter. They're mentally damaged from all the famiclone piracy many years ago that they mostly couldn't do anything about.
    Aye, the big N will persecute anyone caught downloading their games regardless of generation. Best to avoid them if you're concerned about legalities, I personally am not because Archive.org will offer retro ROMs and use online emulators for them anyway. Who's going to shut down the wayback machine?

    https://archive.org/details/psx_armcopp
    Last edited by Dill the Grey; 26th-February-2020 at 07:20. Reason: Legal or not, Archive.org will host retro games.

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    Okay. I see now. I guess it went over my head. But, wow so it doesn't bother you at all that even if nothing happens to you, downloading a ROM is breaking the law? Whether it is or isn't very popular? Well like I said, morally I see no difference between downloading and buying used - that doesn't bother me, but what does is, at the end of every moral rainbow, there is a book of law and whether or not we agree we with the laws it provides or feel like they make any sense, breaking them can sting our sense of self or cause havoc in our lives, or at least this is the way I feel about it..

    I recently found out about the Web Archive hosting games. They also have a ton of other stuff on there that seems like piracy. Are you sure that it isn't a matter of time until they start getting complaints and have to take measures?

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    Morally there is a difference between buying old used games (or anything OOP) and downloading a rom. One is a used legit item that you have bought (and therefore own) and the other is a copy.
    I mean you can buy a used book and there's nothing morally wrong about that. Just own a photocopy and that's obviously wrong.
    But for me I can justify copies if the used originals have inflated prices and/or are difficult to obtain.

    I live in a PAL territory, so for older games it usually isn't cheap to get some nice NTSC titles on the cheap. It can be done, but the cheapest way is buying Japanese versions and then I have to worry about the language barrier (some genres it doesn't matter though).

    Spoiler warning:

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    Well one could make the argument that since neither methods profit the publisher in any way there isn't really a difference to them personally - its really about you and whether your willing to abide the laws or not - but I made this post talking only about one niche/discontinued game in particular that I believe is only available on this forum. I really doubt that downloading it from here would hurt its sales as one has to login to find it, but I still wouldn't want to break any laws.

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    Whatever game it is you should still be able to buy it used, just a matter of how expensive it is.

    Spoiler warning:

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    Quote Originally Posted by professerproof40 View Post
    I recently found out about the Web Archive hosting games. They also have a ton of other stuff on there that seems like piracy. Are you sure that it isn't a matter of time until they start getting complaints and have to take measures?
    As an invaluable Internet tool it will not just disappear because its servers are seized. Whether they comply with all laws or any court orders or not it would finally sort out the definitive precedent regarding the legal status of downloading and hosting ROMs. In court what matters are precedents, what I'm stating is that I personally would be able to represent myself in court using Archive.org as the precedent for a double standard. I also feel no remorse for downloading retro games because they are ubiquitous on the Internet to the point the Wayback Machine hosts them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dill the Grey View Post
    Whether they comply with all laws or any court orders or not it would finally sort out the definitive precedent regarding the legal status of downloading and hosting ROMs. In court what matters are precedents, what I'm stating is that I personally would be able to represent myself in court using Archive.org as the precedent for a double standard.
    Well, that does seem understandable, but I don't know - I just really don't want to have a nagging feeling in my mind as I'm trying to enjoy the game like I'm in trouble with the law. deadleigon is right in that owning a legal copy is better because you'd be doing something without breaking any rules. My plan was initially to buy the game to help the publisher, but once I realized that used items sold don't benefit them in anyway, I began to wonder what the difference between downloading and buying used was. And I realize that the difference is that when you buy used, you're not really helping the publishers - they can't know whether you bought their game at a yard sale or Amazon or not, but the difference is that you'd be helping yourself - you'd be abiding the law and clearing your conscience at the same time. But then, when I look at it like the this, the money issues come up. Now I don't know how I'm going to make enough money to buy the game or whether I'm going to have to wait months and months before the items I was gonna sell get sold online or whenever it can be afforded by those I ask for it from. I really don't know what to do.. should I contact the publisher and ask for their permission to download the game?

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    Quote Originally Posted by professerproof40 View Post
    should I contact the publisher and ask for their permission to download the game?
    You'd be reporting the host, I would not do that, if you're asking me what I'd do. If it's retro the publisher might not exist so you'd have to do your research to find out if the publisher can be contacted in the first place.

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    [QUOTE=Dill the Grey;1958244]You'd be reporting the host, I would not do that, if you're asking me what I'd do. If it's retro the publisher might not exist so you'd have to do your research to find out if the publisher can be contacted in the first place.[/QUOTE
    They still exist, but they would probably just so no, right? Oh, well. I think I'll just have to think about what I'll do for a while. Thanks for participating and for being so insightful and informative. Thanks to deadleigon as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by professerproof40 View Post
    My plan was initially to buy the game to help the publisher, but once I realized that used items sold don't benefit them in anyway, I began to wonder what the difference between downloading and buying used was.
    In the past publishers have actually attempted to have used games sales banned. If publishers lobbyists had their way you'd have neither option.

    I personally don't feel a speck of guilt playing pirated software. I still buy games, many many games. But I do so simply because I like physically collecting them. The bulk of games I buy remain unopened, and should I ever want to play them I look to pirate them first...
    *PSA* Wii Redump collector's can now unscrub ISO files. So scrubbed games can now be verified. You can find the program to do this here

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnar View Post
    In the past publishers have actually attempted to have used games sales banned. If publishers lobbyists had their way you'd have neither option.
    I had a feeling. Reselling in some cases seems no different than downloading a game that is only mildly available on the internet to the publishers. But how can you all be so bold? I don't get it..

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