Old electronics = Quality?

The other day i was fixing mom and dads LCD TV after it finally refused to start I i realized that only a hand full of appliances have really stood the test of time in our hands out of the truck load we have went through. As we live on a alternative power Ive always found our Dicky, temperamental power system a good judge of the quality of a items electronics for instance quite often phone chargers will only last 2 weeks tops before burning out yet Ive been given quite a few old items years that still work fine after 25/30 years that seem to be unkillable despite the massive amounts of abuse they have received. The oldest item (and probably the stuffest) i have is a black and white t.v from 1969. I was wondering what all you lot think of todays electronics in terms of quality and whether or not anybody else has any thing that has stood the test of time.

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Originally Posted by Joe Blog

The other day i was fixing mom and dads LCD TV after it finally refused to start I i realized that only a hand full of appliances have really stood the test of time in our hands out of the truck load we have went through. As we live on a alternative power Ive always found our Dicky, temperamental power system a good judge of the quality of a items electronics for instance quite often phone chargers will only last 2 weeks tops before burning out yet Ive been given quite a few old items years that still work fine after 25/30 years that seem to be unkillable despite the massive amounts of abuse they have received. The oldest item (and probably the stuffest) i have is a black and white t.v from 1969. I was wondering what all you lot think of todays electronics in terms of quality and whether or not anybody else has any thing that has stood the test of time.

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I think you've got a pretty bad case of selection bias. The only stuff you're still going to see around after 20-30 years (or even longer, if you're talking about the 1960s) are going to be the things that seem unkillable, precisely because all of the stuff that broke after one or two weeks...well, broke. By contrast, you've still got all of the electronics made in the last year or two to pick from, including the dodgy stuff which will break soon and simply hasn't yet. Really, things nowadays are generally far more reliable than they used to be, dodgy practices like planned obsolescence aside. If nothing else, the transition from BJTs to MOSFETs for integrated circuitry, comprehension of thermal and mechanical patterns of breakdown, and the systemization and continuous application of modern QA processes has vastly improved reliability, in spite of vastly increased complexity that has drastically increased the absolute number of failure points in any given piece of technology. Who remembers when "Japanese" in electronics was a curse word?
And I have never seen a phone charger that broke after a couple weeks tops. Sure that isn't selection bias as well?
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And no, I wasn't thinking "Back to the Future" when I remembered jokes about Japanese electronics. Well, maybe a little. Or a lot.

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Originally Posted by Mistral

I think you've got a pretty bad case of selection bias. The only stuff you're still going to see around after 20-30 years (or even longer, if you're talking about the 1960s) are going to be the things that seem unkillable, precisely because all of the stuff that broke after one or two weeks...well, broke. By contrast, you've still got all of the electronics made in the last year or two to pick from, including the dodgy stuff which will break soon and simply hasn't yet. Really, things nowadays are generally far more reliable than they used to be, dodgy practices like planned obsolescence aside. If nothing else, the transition from BJTs to MOSFETs for integrated circuitry, comprehension of thermal and mechanical patterns of breakdown, and the systemization and continuous application of modern QA processes has vastly improved reliability, in spite of vastly increased complexity that has drastically increased the absolute number of failure points in any given piece of technology. Who remembers when "Japanese" in electronics was a curse word?
And I have never seen a phone charger that broke after a couple weeks tops. Sure that isn't selection bias as well?
...
And no, I wasn't thinking "Back to the Future" when I remembered jokes about Japanese electronics. Well, maybe a little.

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Seriously, the black and white tv will run on a 100 volts despite being rated at 220 to 240 volts, thats quality if you ask me and im am not talking about horrible valve radios and stuff like, that everything we have is integrated including the old t.v and i don't think i am being bias i am only sharing my thoughts on what i have observed. Maybe we have had a bad run of luck as most of the items we have bought have ended back at the shop.

Well, all I can say is that the CRT TV I've been using for well over a decade still works just fine, as does the CRT monitor from the 90s I have to use because my LCD died on me a few weeks ago.

well if its made in china/Korea/mexico its gonna be of poor quality and have a very random death rate.

and i completely see your point, stuff from decades past was of quality construction.

Hell even some blank media brands just a few years ago were of quality construction, like TDK brand media, they were some of the finest discs i ever had my hands on, now they are crap and chipping away.

And dont forget Gaming consoles, they are made to die nowadays from heat, hence why a Good cooling source such as a external fan is necessary to prolong the life of the console and piss off the Company's because they wont get your money after it dies after the warranty expires..

I've got an old Samsung Syncmaster CRT monitor I still use (but I'm generally not a fan of Samsung products).
Only thing that went wrong with it was a blown fuse many years ago 'cos I was using it without surge protection back then :P
That kind of issue is an easy fix though.

Got a Sony Trinitron 80cm CRT TV that still works perfectly as well.
Use it in my games room for non-HD consoles (old game consoles also survive pretty well, besides the odd laser dying).

I've got an old Yamaha Pro-logic surround sound system (pre-digital) that I use in my shed.
Couple of pairs of old quality speakers that still work well.......I've repaired the woofer cones on some of them due to age.

I wouldn't say Old electronics = Quality
But Quality Old Electronics = Quality :wacko:

The biggest annoyance about modern electronics for me is the effort company's put towards making their products unfix-able, using screws with a point in the middle to stop you getting them out is a pain in the ass another trick they use is making it so that you risk damaging the cosmetic appearance of your pride a joy trying to fix it. :muhaha:

thats right man, they do whatever possible to make the "Quality Product" break right after the warranty expires so yer up shits creak without a paddle.

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Originally Posted by Supreme Warrior

And dont forget Gaming consoles, they are made to die nowadays from heat, hence why a Good cooling source such as a external fan is necessary to prolong the life of the console and piss off the Company's because they wont get your money after it dies after the warranty expires..

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While I agree older electronics seem to last longer, anyone who uses those aftermarket cooling fans on their consoles needs a swift kick in the softies.
Those will kill a console faster than any design problems.

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Originally Posted by Sprung

While I agree older electronics seem to last longer, anyone who uses those aftermarket cooling fans on their consoles needs a swift kick in the softies.
Those will kill a console faster than any design problems.

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you are thinking of the 360 one, I have never had a problem with a external cooling fan, they have actually prolonged the life my systems,and i have friends who say the same :wacko: .

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Originally Posted by Supreme Warrior

you are thinking of the 360 one, I have never had a problem with a external cooling fan, they have actually prolonged the life my systems,and i have friends who say the same :wacko: .

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Yes, the ones for the 360 are hideous. They sound like helicopters and direct the air away from where it needs to be...

Like the wii one for example, the pissy wii internal fan is meant to blow air out the back of the system as air from the side vent comes in to cool the insides, the internal fan does NOTHING to keep it cool and many people i know have had issues with the wii overheating, got a external to snap on the back and its like a freak9in wind tunnel and keeps it cool, yes the bastards are a lil noisy but my wii staying cool is more important than a lil bit of noise, plus i mostly use headphones when playing :wacko:

Console cooling these days would probably put me off buying a new console, surely the manufacturers know of these problems when they release their products, i miss the days when pretty much anything passive cooled it seems most things run hot these days LCD TVs seem to get quite toasty considering there suppose to be efficient they sure through out a lot of heat.

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Like the wii one for example, the pissy wii internal fan is meant to blow air out the back of the system as air from the side vent comes in to cool the insides, the internal fan does NOTHING to keep it cool and many people i know have had issues with the wii overheating, got a external to snap on the back and its like a freak9in wind tunnel and keeps it cool, yes the bastards are a lil noisy but my wii staying cool is more important than a lil bit of noise, plus i mostly use headphones when playing

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I didn't think a wii could over heat a friend of mine has got one, i wonder if he is aware of the cooling issues......

just thought i'd say on my laptop my hard drive and motherboard crashed just before the warranty went out free fix no problem.

got the computer back 3 months later monitor went out no warranty this time cost for hp to fix the monitor $350 I only paid $500 for the whole lappy. CRT monitor that I found at a thrift store $10.

me happily being able to use my computer again priceless some things you can't buy for everything else there's good quality older electronics.:whistle:

indeed, it not now but down the road the heat will take its toll on the videocard and such.

and the 360 and PS3 are even worse, when i had a PS3 for a small period of time i only had the disc in the unit for say 15-30 minutes and once i removed it, it felt literally like the disc would melt in my hand, not to mention made my room into a oven.

Main issue is Intentional Faulty Design and inferior quality products made in a communist country all for the sake of saving a buck, I really REALLY HATE outsourcing.

Somethings these days are just out right deadly, i had one of through s 600 watt generators and it literally shook its self apart i went to turn it off one night to discover that the tank had snapped off and was being held in place by the fuel pipe. By the time it broke for good there was more pop rivets than generator.

Made in some shitty 3rd world country?

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Originally Posted by Supreme Warrior

Made in some shitty 3rd world country?

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It must have been, we also ended up with one of the first ps2 slims it used to break down alot it manged to do a great job of spending its warranty at the repair shop it probably only got about 20 to 30 hours use before its warranty ran out the rest of the time it was in the repair shop i found it to be a real disappointment. We also have a couple PS1s a big one and a little bubbly one thats chipped which both still work now there reliable but the av cords always seem to be sensitive

The ps2 slims are a Fine example are Overheating, mine Starts to crash after say 15 mins of use, which is why i just use my Fat ps2, here is pretty much the only fix for a Slim,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ta3PF2Yd4Ek


My original MADE IN JAPAN Fat PS2 ran nice and cool for Years, then after 7-8 years constant use it started to really show signs of wear.

The slim PS2s defiantly leave a lot to be desired, all that really seems to go wrong with older consoles is their sockets for the controllers av cords etc. Another prob with the slims is that its light weight lends its self to being dragged off by the controller cord.

I think what we are really discussing here is just that as an industry grows there are more cheap knock-offs. But as Deadlegion put it: quality is quality. It's kind of like how we talk about the advent of certain technologies in the world, but that doesn't mean that some crazy reclusive types hadn't invented similar innovations many years earlier; they just weren't well known or mainstream, and the inventions themselves may have been considered too abominable or alien to the status quo.

I realize I went off topic there, but I always wanted to bring that last thing up. :revwacko:

I have to say that it's true. I've bought an Amiga 500 recently, all dusty, with yellowed plastic and it works beautifully. And this back in the time when stuff wasn't all made in China, and as Supreme Warrior pointed out, his PS2 was made in Japan and it pretty much resisted all those years.
Also cars follow the same example, some recent cars break more than older ones. But that doesn't mean that it's made in third world countries, but that they are using now cheap materials, easily degradable. Such a shame, really.

Today i needed to get some Super glue, I noticed there was 2 to choose from, a 6 pack made in china and a 2 pack made in the USA. guess which i bought?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5SRyG6UR2A

I think it wrong to blanket label anything constructed in China is instantly bad and will fail right away. it more depends on the brand your getting and the components rather than the country it was assembled in.

I've had many items constructed in China that have lasted very well as well as some that has not just as much as items assembled in other country's also

I say in terms of manufacturing, yes, old electronics is definitely better, and I agree that a large part of that is because nowadays they are manufactured in China, I have to say I'm heavily biased in that I don't trust the Chinese and the culture they stand for (before anyone says anything, I'm Chinese).

But the world today far more advanced in terms of engineering and design, which helps alot to make up for deficiencies in manufacturing.

I remember cleaning out some old boxes and finding a really old 2nd gen Walkman, it's a thing of beauty, it's heavy, solid and the outer case was made from metal, and in the same box a Walkman from maybe a decade later, it was light, plastic, feels cheap and nasty. To be fair, they both still work, though.

wow I think you're just unlucky dude I still got my ps3 from launch it works fine no heating problems at all and discs never heat to extreme degrees like you say and I ussually play for about 1 to 2 hours.

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Main issue is Intentional Faulty Design and inferior quality products made in a communist country all for the sake of saving a buck, I really REALLY HATE outsourcing

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and yep outsourcing sucks ass but greedy companies are going to do all they can to save a buck its called business XD.

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Originally Posted by Heiji1412

I say in terms of manufacturing, yes, old electronics is definitely better, and I agree that a large part of that is because nowadays they are manufactured in China, I have to say I'm heavily biased in that I don't trust the Chinese and the culture they stand for (before anyone says anything, I'm Chinese).

But the world today far more advanced in terms of engineering and design, which helps alot to make up for deficiencies in manufacturing.

I remember cleaning out some old boxes and finding a really old 2nd gen Walkman, it's a thing of beauty, it's heavy, solid and the outer case was made from metal, and in the same box a Walkman from maybe a decade later, it was light, plastic, feels cheap and nasty. To be fair, they both still work, though.

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Still wouldn't it be good if manufacturers used good quality components with their advanced machinery rather than engineering around deficiencies. Don't electronics these days have to meet safety standards these days i would think that that would encourage the use of decent components do they even test their products? Ive noticed that electronics never seem to have any sticker inside them say they have. i remember reading a article in a old encyclopedia about electronics and it saying that CRTs are ran for several days continuously to find any faults i bet that isn't done these days

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Originally Posted by Tsukasa01

wow I think you're just unlucky dude I still got my ps3 from launch it works fine no heating problems at all and discs never heat to extreme degrees like you say and I ussually play for about 1 to 2 hours.

and yep outsourcing sucks ass but greedy companies are going to do all they can to save a buck its called GREED XD.

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Fixed it fer ya :wacko:

I can't say anything about electronics in general, but when it comes to consoles I'd have to agree. Aside from my Wii, the other two current-generation consoles have given me problems. My 360 RRoD'ed a month before the warranty ran out. It still works, but it will randomly overheat and shut-off which will end up giving me an RRoD, but will work again after letting it sit for a while. And it's not like I play it a lot. I only play it a few hours a week max, and only for about an hour at a time. And while I didn't spend a lot of time with the PS3, it did get the YLoD for the six months I had it. It's same situation with my Xbox too, so it's not like I had it running for eight hours a day, every day.

This generation isn't the first to have hardware problems, but it seems like with the 21st century consoles have gotten less sturdy and reliable. Nintendo is the only company that I trust enough to make a first-day purchase with.

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Originally Posted by Qwelzaar

I can't say anything about electronics in general, but when it comes to consoles I'd have to agree. Aside from my Wii, the other two current-generation consoles have given me problems. My 360 RRoD'ed a month before the warranty ran out. It still works, but it will randomly overheat and shut-off which will end up giving me an RRoD, but will work again after letting it sit for a while. And it's not like I play it a lot. I only play it a few hours a week max, and only for about an hour at a time. And while I didn't spend a lot of time with the PS3, it did get the YLoD for the six months I had it. It's same situation with my Xbox too, so it's not like I had it running for eight hours a day, every day.

This generation isn't the first to have hardware problems, but it seems like with the 21st century consoles have gotten less sturdy and reliable. Nintendo is the only company that I trust enough to make a first-day purchase with.

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Well said

While I have to agree that Nintendo does make nice stuff, to be fair, all their consoles are old tech, which helps since it's already proven, less unknowns, even when they are new.

Case in point, the Wii U will have a Radeon 4890 last I checked, hardware that in a couple a months, will be 3 generations behind.

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Originally Posted by Heiji1412

While I have to agree that Nintendo does make nice stuff, to be fair, all their consoles are old tech, which helps since it's already proven, less unknowns, even when they are new.

Case in point, the Wii U will have a Radeon 4890 last I checked, hardware that in a couple a months, will be 3 generations behind.

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There's nothing wrong with using technology that's a couple generations old, especially on consoles. The 4890 is a good card and there's no reason to jack up the price of the Wii U just to put in a better GPU that isn't going make a big enough difference to justify the higher price.

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Originally Posted by Qwelzaar

There's nothing wrong with using technology that's a couple generations old, especially on consoles. The 4890 is a good card and there's no reason to jack up the price of the Wii U just to put in a better GPU that isn't going make a big enough difference to justify the higher price.

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Yup, 5 Cents made in china :damn:

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Originally Posted by Qwelzaar

There's nothing wrong with using technology that's a couple generations old, especially on consoles. The 4890 is a good card and there's no reason to jack up the price of the Wii U just to put in a better GPU that isn't going make a big enough difference to justify the higher price.

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Didn't say there's anything wrong with it, in fact I said a couple of pros associated with it. And the price jacking is normal with Nintendo hardware, old-tech, up-to-date price, that's the way nintendo always done business, you can see this especially with the 3DS.

I don't know about handhelds since I haven't had a Nintendo one since the GBA SP, but Nintendo has always been relatively good with the prices of their systems. IIRC the Wii is the first Nintendo console since the NES to cost more than $200 at launch. Compare that to Sony's and Microsoft's consoles which have always launched for $300 or more. I do agree that the 3DS is a bit pricey, but 3D technology itself is expensive.

Fair enough, but just a quick point about the 3DS, the 3D tech it's using is not groundbreaking or new, I have no idea how much it costs, but considering that the proof of concept was from the 80s, I can't imagine it's too expensive, and if it is, then it's just poor decision on Nintendo's part. It's a gimmick, nothing more, yes, Super Mario 3d Land does use it nicely, but for the most part, it sucks, the 3D was fun for maybe a day, and I don't normally use it on mine, would've preferred a capacitive touch screen, but they can't market that.

And the 3DS is not a bit pricey, it's very pricy, I bought one at launch. Consider that the Vita is set at 300 for the Wifi + 3G model, and the hardware is miles ahead. From a tech POV, you get ripped if you buy a Nintendo system.

Actually, the parrallax barrier dates back to the early 1900s, but the type the 3DS uses is relatively new and produces the best image with the least problems, but as a result is more expensive than the other, less effective type. As for the price, you're always getting ripped off when buying a console or handheld unless you wait until late in its life cycle. That's just how business works.

Really, I didn't know that, that's actually really interesting since the end results isn't very good anyway. That makes the 3D an even worst gimmick than I originally thought.

I agree, just that you're getting ripped comparatively harder when it's Nintendo, considering the tech isn't new at all. On topic though, my 3DS have a hefty, solid feel to it.