Naruto Discussions (Anime only!)

[Mikey]

Naruto ran out of Chakra/energy.

That's why he lost.

Hm. Pretty odd considering he's the one with the huge chakra supply, both naturally and with
Kyuubi.

Sasuke did manage to pierce Naruto's shirt with his hand at the end, but the wound Naruto suffered there wasn't that bad.
After the fight, you don't even see any blood, just a hole in his shirt.

True. But the Kyuubi can also heal Naruto's wounds. I think whatever damage he took from the Chidori, Kyuubi began the healing process quickly.

Also, keep in mind the whole time that Naruto was chasing after Sasuke, fighting the Sound Four, etc, Sasuke was resting comfortably in a barrel.

Naruto was chasing after Sasuke, but his only fight started against Kimimaro. No one else in the Sound Four, before he caught up to Sasuke. And even then, he's supposed to have the largest stamina/chakra supply in his age group. I don't believe for a second that chasing after Sasuke, and then his brief encounter with Kimimaro tired him out that much. Also, Sasuke went through some sort of dying process in there, and we don't know if it had any toll on him, other than giving him access to CS2.

So, it wasn't exactly a fair fight.

How exactly wasn't it a fair fight? If you wanna talk about fair fighting, then we can also mention how Naruto used Kyuubi's powers to kick Sasuke's butt, while Sasuke wasn't even transformed. I think that's a bit unfair also.

Naruto also lost quite a bit of Chakra to Jirobou too, although since that happened early in the chase, he probably replenished most of that by the time he caught up to Sasuke.

Indeed. But it wasn't just Naruto's chakra that was being drained. And really, Naruto has the same amount of chakra that 30% Kisame had, which was even enough to fight Team Gai, and force Gai to open up 6 gates on Kisame's clone. Naruto had more than enough chakra for that time.

But then he also wasted a lot of Chakra in his fight with Sasuke too, especially during the middle of the fight.

Is that when he goes 1 tail and attacks Sasuke in his normal form? If so, he didn't use up any chakra. Kyuubi provides Naruto with damn near almost infinite chakra.

In other words, since he didn't know about the power of CS2, he underestimated Sasuke.

Very true. I'm sure Naruto wasn't expecting Sasuke to even things out.

I also believe that until Sasuke went CS2, Naruto wasn't being serious (partly because he didn't want to seriously injure or kill Sasuke) or he wouldn't have wasted so much chakra and would have relied more on strategy and not just on sheer power, from the beginning of the fight.

Naruto was prepared to do whatever he needed to to bring Sasuke back to Konoha by force.

IMO, all things being equal, Naruto + 1 tails = Sasuke + CS2 if both are being serious and have full chakra at the beginning of the fight.

I must disagree. So, I guess we both agree to disagree? Unless you'd like discuss it more.

[SegNin]

Why do you think Kakashi had to carry him back?

Because he used up all his Chakra.
Just watch it and you'll see what I mean.

What you're forgetting is that going even one tails consumes alot of Chakra.

It also damages his body after awhile--during the fight, he lost the use of his left hand because of the Kyuubi chakra.

And he'd never stayed one tails for that long before, and as we both noticed, he wasted a lot of Chakra during the middle of the fight.

As for his wound, when Sasuke fought Gaara in the exam, he pierced Gaara's sand shield and wounded Gaara, and there was blood.

But with Naruto, there was no visible blood because Sasuke's hand didn't penetrate too deeply--kind of went in on an angle and slashed him.
But that's not enough to put Naruto away.

And when Naruto gets stabbed, there is blood (see stabbing himself in the hand, or the Waterfall country special where he dives in front of a child to save her from getting stabbed.)

So, if it wasn't Sasuke's Chidori that beat him, because it got cancelled out when it collided with Rasengan, and if it wasn't Sasuke's hand stabbing him that beat him, then what else could it be?

Also, right after the fight ended, while Sasuke was looking down on an unconscious Naruto, Sasuke grabbed his shoulder, dropped to his knees and coughed out some blood.

Because going CS2 had also drained and injured him too.

Which also shows that Sasuke was just a few moments away from collapsing too.

To me, it's clear--in fact the animators almost go out of their way to make it clear--Sasuke and Naruto were at that time equals.

[Ivolt]

Sasuke wasn't owned by Naruto. Naruto went one tail, and once Sasuke went CS2, he pretty much flattened Naruto's ass and left him to be carried off by Kakashi.

No, Naruto missed on purpose at the end of the fight, so that he wouldn't kill Sasuke.

[Lee]

When they both were in booster forms, Naruto wasn't owning anyone. Exactly what fight were you watching? Sasuke went CS2 and Naruto went 1 tail. After that, they both went for their signature moves, and only one was left standing. At that point in time, Sasuke > Naruto. CS2 > 1 tail.

Sasuke + CS2 > Naruto + 1 tail. It's how it went down. That is fact.

@Naruto needing to be in 1 tail mode to fight Base Sasuke.

Edit: Yeah, it was Rasengan vs Chidori. It wasn't that Naruto missed, his Rasengan hit head to head with Sasuke's Chidori. It looked as if Naruto's Rasengan just kind of got over powered, and then he went to scratch Sasuke's forehead protector. Looking at the fight just now, there was not one point in time where Sasuke was in any real danger for his life. Hell, Naruto was forced to go 1 tails while Sasuke was in regular form.

excuse me?

2nd tier sharringan owns ANYONE that cant negate it, one tails negated the sharringan -.-

i rofl at sasuke having to use Orochimaru's CS2 against the kyuubi... rofl


why can you that naruto's one tails pwns CS2 -.-

Note on the bold: Do you want me to rip the frames and show you the residual chakra from the rasengen was hitting sasuke and not the one tail chakra?

Naruto freaking DIDNT need one tail to fight BASE sasuke, to fight his 2nd tier sharringan tho he needed one tail -.-

i do not know how you think of sasuke as base sasuke with tier 2 sharringan because it occured during the fight, so yah...

no ninja(on the same level or lower as sasuke) at that point could go one on one with a 2nd tier sharringan user, not even sasuke.

what were we arguing over?

okay new subject, nine tails pwns sharringan... true or false?

[Mikey]

Why do you think Kakashi had to carry him back?

A combination of being tired out and being whipped.

Because he used up all his Chakra.
Just watch it and you'll see what I mean.

I did watch, and it's not only because of chakra loss. Naruto took some bumps in that fight. Although he did also exert quite a bit of energy during the fight also. Which is pretty funny, because it was at the end of the fight when Sasuke chose to use CS2.

What you're forgetting is that going even one tails consumes alot of Chakra.

I, don't think it was ever stated that going any tails consumes chakra. It usually happens when Naruto is very emotional, or is at the brink of death. How can it consume chakra only for it to increase his chakra?

It also damages his body after awhile--during the fight, he lost the use of his left hand because of the Kyuubi chakra.

Indeed.

And he'd never stayed one tails for that long before, and as we both noticed, he wasted a lot of Chakra during the middle of the fight.

Sorry, I don't buy that. He's relying on Kyuubi's chakra. It's almost like being in a strange form of God mode. Except staying in that form for too long physically hurts Naruto. I don't see how he ran out of chakra when going Kyuubi provides him more chakra than he had before.

As for his wound, when Sasuke fought Gaara in the exam, he pierced Gaara's sand shield and wounded Gaara, and there was blood.

Indeed. But Gaara's Shukaku doesn't heal Gaara when he's injured. And during the time they both were enclosed in that huge chakra ball of doom, I'm willing to bet Naruto did get injured, and Kyuubi's healing kicked in. So, by the time Naruto hit the ground, he was almost fully healed. Remember when Naruto slashed his hand with a kunai? He bled quite a bit, and one moment later, it was fully healed.

But with Naruto, there was no visible blood because Sasuke's hand didn't penetrate too deeply--kind of went in on an angle and slashed him.
But that's not enough to put Naruto away.

We saw no blood because they were both in that big ass black chakra dome. Remember when Sasuke, in his base form, used Chidori on Itachi? Itachi easily countered it and moved his hand away in an angle. His hand didn't even touch the wall and yet his Chidori blew a huge hole. Now imagine Sasuke in CS2 mode using Chidori on someone up close, and even if it didn't connect fully or deeply, it still should have done a large amount of damage.

And when Naruto gets stabbed, there is blood (see stabbing himself in the hand, or the Waterfall country special where he dives in front of a child to save her from getting stabbed.)

I just used that as an example.

So, if it wasn't Sasuke's Chidori that beat him, because it got cancelled out when it collided with Rasengan, and if it wasn't Sasuke's hand stabbing him that beat him, then what else could it be?

There's no reason to not believe it wasn't Chidori that beat Naruto, considering how up close they were, and considering Chidori's power, and Sasuke in CS2 mode. Us not seeing any blood doesn't really mean there wasn't any.

Also, right after the fight ended, while Sasuke was looking down on an unconscious Naruto, Sasuke grabbed his shoulder, dropped to his knees and coughed out some blood.

Indeed.

Because going CS2 had also drained and injured him too.

Being in CS2 mode for long doesn't injure it's user. Nor does it drain the user. It makes the user lose himself in that form. It's like a roid rage of sorts.

Which also shows that Sasuke was just a few moments away from collapsing too.

If he were a few moments away from collapsing he wouldn't have had any energy to go about his business in getting to Orochimaru's hideout.

To me, it's clear--in fact the animators almost go out of their way to make it clear--Sasuke and Naruto were at that time equals.

A nope. I still disagree. All the animators did was make Naruto go all out before Sasuke could go all out himself. They also showed how Naruto totally underestimated Sasuke, and how Sasuke was never in any real danger for his life.

[Mikey]

excuse me?

You're excused.

i rofl at sasuke having to use Orochimaru's CS2 against the kyuubi... rofl

Well, yeah. Duh. Naruto gets to win fights against people who he normally should lose to. Why should Sasuke no have his own way of dealing with Naruto's Godly tailed demon?

why can you that naruto's one tails pwns CS2 -.-

Because it didn't. Flat out, it didn't.

Naruto freaking DIDNT need one tail to fight BASE sasuke, to fight his 2nd tier sharringan tho he needed one tail -.-

Um, that's still base Sasuke. He made no transformations against Naruto, mean while, Naruto was forced to use Kyuubi in order to catch up to Sasuke.

i do not know how you think of sasuke as base sasuke with tier 2 sharringan because it occured during the fight, so yah...

We must have different definitions of base then, because while Naruto began fighting Sasuke, Sasuke wasn't transformed at all. Not CS1, and not CS2. He was in base form. Sharingan is his bloodline limit. It's HIS own power and ability.

no ninja(on the same level or lower as sasuke) at that point could go one on one with a 2nd tier sharringan user, not even sasuke.

Uh, wha?? No ninja could go one on one against a second tier Sharingan user? Not even Sasuke? Didn't you just say that Sasuke is a second tier Sharingan user?

what were we arguing over?

okay new subject, nine tails pwns sharringan... true or false?

We've never seen what 9 tails Naruto can do, and we never will, because once that happens, wave goodbye to Naruto. His seal would be broken and Kyuubi would be in full control. And uh, that's not exactly a fair comparison since we're talking about the strongest of the tailed beasts vs a bloodline limit.

[SegNin]

You're wrong about the cursed seal:

The second and final level of the seal causes...
When in this level, the seal eats away at the user's personality, driving them to madness if used too long. It also takes quite a toll on their body, since they are being mutated by the seal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cursed_...s_cursed_seals

And as for Naruto, the more chakra he uses, the more he loses regardless of what state he's in.

[Mikey]

You're wrong about the cursed seal:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cursed_...s_cursed_seals

Oh I see. You meant drained as in physically. I thought you meant chakra wise. Well, yeah.

Spoiler warning:

Sasuke was pretty drained after he fought Deidara, and he used CS2 a few times.

And as for Naruto, the more chakra he uses, the more he loses regardless of what state he's in.

I still think still think it's ridiculous. I mean, by the time Naruto and Sasuke fought at the Valley, once Kyuubi-fied, Naruto had more chakra to use than he did at the Chunnin exams, which was roughly (according to Neji) the same amount that 30% Kisame had. He shouldn't have been as drained as you think he was. :\

[Lee]

We must have different definitions of base then, because while Naruto began fighting Sasuke, Sasuke wasn't transformed at all. Not CS1, and not CS2. He was in base form. Sharingan is his bloodline limit. It's HIS own power and ability.

uh what? No ninja could go one on one against a second tier Sharingan user? Not even Sasuke? Didn't you just say that Sasuke is a second tier Sharingan user?

Sasuke simply could not control his 2nd tier sharringan yet...

i beleive that the nine tails is naruto's "own power and ability" if you consider a bloodline ability which only requires the blood of an uchiha, to be someone "own" personal power and "ability"

so naruto in 1 tail form is still base naruto by your definition...

[Mikey]

Sasuke simply could not control his 2nd tier sharringan yet...

i beleive that the nine tails is naruto's "own power and ability" if you consider a bloodline ability which only requires the blood of an uchiha, to be someone "own" personal power and "ability"

so naruto in 1 tail form is still base naruto by your definition...

Not really. A bloodline limit is a birth right/trait. Naruto wasn't born with a tailed beast in him. So when he uses Kyuubi's power, it's not his own. You CAN tell the difference, right?

[Ivolt]

I'm still fairly sure that Naruto won that fight.

[Mikey]

I'm still fairly sure that Naruto won that fight.

Ah, yeah. He got up and walked out on his own, he stopped Sasuke with his own abil..oh wait. He stopped Sasuke while using Kyuub...oh wait. Fail.

[Ivolt]

Ah, yeah. He got up and walked out on his own, he stopped Sasuke with his own abil..oh wait. He stopped Sasuke while using Kyuub...oh wait. Fail.

It's actually brought up that in the final attack Naruto missed on purpose and scratched Sasuke's headband so that he wouldn't kill him.

[Mikey]

It's actually brought up that in the final attack Naruto missed on purpose and scratched Sasuke's headband so that he wouldn't kill him.

Yes, is that fact or assumption/theory? Because it's not the first time I've heard it. Either way, Naruto lost the fight, and failed his goal.

Edit: This is getting boring, fast. What's the next topic?

[SegNin]

I still think still think it's ridiculous. I mean, by the time Naruto and Sasuke fought at the Valley, once Kyuubi-fied, Naruto had more chakra to use than he did at the Chunnin exams, which was roughly (according to Neji) the same amount that 30% Kisame had. He shouldn't have been as drained as you think he was. :\

Think of it this way:
If you have two drums, one that is a 50-gallon drum filled with 40 gallons of water and another that is a 10 gallon drum filled with 9 gallons of water, and you empty out 39 gallons of water from the first drum and 7 gallons from the second, which drum will have more water?

Naruto is the 50 gallon drum, and Sasuke's the 10 gallon drum, obviously.

And before you say there's no way Naruto could have used up all his chakra, keep in mind that because of the Kyuubi, his chakra control is only about average, after the adjustment Jiraya made to the seal.

Sasuke however has above-average chakra control (neither one compares to Sakura though)

This was actually mentioned in one of the earlier episodes, when they had to run up those trees, I think.

And the less chakra control you have, the more chakra you waste.