Poll: Does God exist?

[Paladin_Hammer]

there are indeed things that science can't explain....like twinkies and flubber

Like Skinner8's unusually small... apendage. Or MasJ finding a girl like Dingy.

Yep, science can't tell us everything


EDIT: Or Sprung's extreme attraction to Kasumi! Or Polobunny's records in the arcade! Or my being an ass! OR Mason's absence! Or how only one person is on this stupid web-forum at a time!

[Evans]

Like Skinner8's unusually small... apendage. Or MasJ finding a girl like Dingy.

Yep, science can't tell us everything


EDIT: Or Sprung's extreme attraction to Kasumi! Or Polobunny's records in the arcade! Or my being an ass! OR Mason's absence! Or how only one person is on this stupid web-forum at a time!

If this is a stupid forum, what are you doing here?

[malice2501]

Like Skinner8's unusually small... apendage. Or MasJ finding a girl like Dingy.

Yep, science can't tell us everything


EDIT: Or Sprung's extreme attraction to Kasumi! Or Polobunny's records in the arcade! Or my being an ass! OR Mason's absence! Or how only one person is on this stupid web-forum at a time!

Whats so strange about his attraction to Kasumi? Have you seen his latest sig? hottttt....

[pkt-zer0]

A non-biblical example would be scientist explaining the origins of the universe. Aparently the univese expanded from the size of a single cell to its present state in one quick, gigantic explosion. What did that? The cell simply exploded? No outside force pushed it to that extent? How did it multiply so fast? If there was an explosion, how did it START life, all explosions I've ever heard of usually involve fire, and fire kills more than it creates.

1) It can be mathemathically proven that certain axiomatic systems (like, what we currently base mathematics on) contain statements that cannot be known to be true or false. Like the continuum-hypothesis. So, science has essentially proved that it can't prove everything. It doesn't even intend to.
2) If you start to go back in time, to the point it all (supposedly) started, things become stuffed into a really tiny amount of space, and therefore time intervals get a lot shorter. So, even though you could somehow deduce what happened a fraction of a picosecond after the birth of the universe, you could never go to time zero.
However, the concept of infinity is one that can't easily be grasped. Here's an example: 0,9999 does not equal 1. But 0,9999..., where there are an infinite number of 9s, does. Simply proven: Let's call this number X. So, X=0,9999..., 10X = 9,9999..., and 10X still has infinite 9s in the end. 10X-X = 9. 9X = 9, X = 1.
So, you could suppose in the same way that space-time could be condensed into a single point under an infinite amount of time. So, it has always been expanding, and there is no such thing that put it there, because it has always been there.

[Soeru]

I have that at home, no need to brag about it, and yes i have drawn satanic markings at certain places IE churches.
HAIL SATAN!

.

Damn right, bitch. Seriously now, drawing pentagrams or Necronomicon circles/patterns does not make you Satanic, it just means you like the occult and shit. Read some Crowley or other thelemic writings, it clearly shows that "Satanism" involves no worshipping or violent activity of any kind. Satanism is a deep philosophy about self-assertion, self-love and unleashing one's own true potential and ability in life, particularily detaching from the restrictive life of a Christian(it's original purpose, which is kind of useless now as atheism is so common).

Satanists get all that bad rep because they chose such a silly, attention-grabbing name for their belief, and the ones who claim that they truly worship Satan/Beelzebub/Hades/other infernal-like gods are either posing or are downright mad(particularily those that actually do violent shit).

[X-EvansBasher-X]

I have four words to say
I hate Pat Robertson.

Swine like this corrupt any altruistic streak of organized religion. Demagogues make it tougher on everyone. These individuals are why many have turned from Catholicism & Western religious thought. You want to find the reason behind growing interest in Buddhism, metaphysics & other non-traditional religious concepts? Look no further...thank Pat & his televangelist ilk.

[Soeru]

The church of Satan offers services such as: animal sacrifices, sex orgies and the drinking of blood. Having sex which a bunch of strangers is the moral of average dog in the street, I think.

The book was written by the founder of the church of Satan. Now there are many diffrent sects, but all have the purpose to indulgence in fleshly desires.

The main reason it is Satanism, and not wild partyism, is because the leaders have a desire to do things as shocking as possible in order to make a mockery of the worship of God

This is so obviously the Christian take on Satanism. Real Satanists do not engage in such acts. It's not a cult-like following, it's a philosophy for acheiving a better life outside of the Christian way, with frequent references to Sumerian mythology(for example, the ancient Babylonian gods Chutulu, Absu, and Amah-Ushugmai-Anna that are represented in a triangle as "Am", "Will", and "Create". The references are just used as symbolism, but Satanism is a philosophy of being your own leader.

The orgies, the animal/virgin sacrificies, blood drinking, and all these other spooky images were created by the Church in the early middle ages -particularily the inquisitions- to scare the monarchy's subjects into being good Christians and going to Church, paying their taxes, and ratting out any people who they may suspect are not true believers. These images were also used to discourage/condemn the Pagan tribes around Europe, particularily polytheistic folk like the Nordic invaders. "Satanism" did not exist until very recently.

Edit: A perfect example of false imagery created by the Church is the orgies. Wiccan tribes engaged in ceremonies(Sabbats) being "sky clad"(meaning clad only by the sky, no clothes), because that was the appropriate way to appear before the gods. Crusaders that arrived to pre-Christian England ran back home telling stories of crazy polytheistic worshippers that had ceremonies completely naked(being naked in public in Christian Europe? Unthinkable!). So all of the sudden, polytheistic folk became sinful subhumans that were to be burned at the stake. They were assumed to be associated with Satan as they were of such sinful nature, and voila: Satanics engage in orgies.

Edit2: I'm not too sure, but the blood drinking/Satanic thing is frequently associated with vampires. I'm sure you've all heard of a blood disease -I forget the name- who's victims had to drink blood to stay healthy and keep the concentration of a certain blood platelet to stay healthy. This practice was only done by few in the middle ages because it was discovered to be a suitable treatment back then, but the disease is curable nowadays. I wish I remembered the name. The disease caused by a gene that is linked to another disease that prevents the blood from clotting properly, the king of Spain suffers from this disease but I forgot the name as well. Basically someone with this blood deficiency could likely bleed to death from even slight bruise or cut as the blood never clots and scabs never form, but this is not the disease that so called "vampires" had.

Edit3: Xena, aren't you a fan of the TV show Xena: Warrior Princess? Shouldn't you know more about this kind of stuff?

Edit4: On a somewhat unrelated note: the myth of David & Goliath is pretty rad. A lot of people don't know that the old myth was representing the Jews(David) fending off the invading Romans(Goliath), hence in old paintings David and Goliath are represented as such. However in some Roman Catholic paintings, David is portrayed as a Christian boy and Goliath is the big, tall, burly evil Pagan man(and in one Spanish painting, he is actually depicted somewhat like a Moorish/Arabic invader!). I don't know the names of these paintings buy I have seen them before in texts and in a museum(they were replicas I believe), so I'm not pulling this out of my ass. Interesting how rulers twist and retell everything underneath our noses.

If you believe that vampires, witches, and Satanists have anything to do with each other... guess what, you've been fooled by the Church.

Edit5: I think I'm just an atheist/agnostic by the way. I firmly believe in science, but I apply an unknown meaning of a "God" to that which remains to be explained by science. Hence my beliefs will change over time. I do like the self-help philosophy thing that Satanism(what a stupid name for a philosophy) is all about, because they all deal with being in control of your own life, I'm just more of a down-to-Earth person. I still have a lot to learn about Thelema and Sumerian/Babylonian mythology because it's all still blurry to me right now. It's cool because a certain referance can mean many things. In Thelema, for example, everything is controlled by the Will(you), which is personified by the Egyptian god Had(also known as Hadit), which is a form of the god Horus(god of the sky, the son of the Sun god Ra), but also is an ancient Babylonian god that represents a humanly trait(or inhumanly, I forget!). There's still much more that I want to learn about this, and the constant references in the lyrics of a handful of bands that I listen to are only fueling my desire to learn more(in particular: modern Behemoth, old Vader, Morbid Angel, and Nile(but Nile focus more on solely Egyptian themes).

I wish they tought me something else besides Greek mythology in school...

[Soeru]

What's wrong, did I bore you all to death?

[Raype]

Edit2: I'm not too sure, but the blood drinking/Satanic thing is frequently associated with vampires. I'm sure you've all heard of a blood disease -I forget the name- who's victims had to drink blood to stay healthy and keep the concentration of a certain blood platelet to stay healthy. This practice was only done by few in the middle ages because it was discovered to be a suitable treatment back then, but the disease is curable nowadays. I wish I remembered the name. The disease caused by a gene that is linked to another disease that prevents the blood from clotting properly, the king of Spain suffers from this disease but I forgot the name as well. Basically someone with this blood deficiency could likely bleed to death from even slight bruise or cut as the blood never clots and scabs never form, but this is not the disease that so called "vampires" had.

I think you may be referring to hemophilia.

Very informative post BTW.

[malice2501]

odd, from the satanic people ive talked to (very few, im not into supa evil and whatnot) they dont have orgies, but they do kill stuff as an afront to god. They tend to know the bible from front to back, and they dont do human sacrifice because they would get locked up. Maybe the one i talked to was just some satanic oddball though. :\

Also, how can it be satanism if youre not following satan? Wiccans dont fall into this catagory. Neither do a lot of the other mentioned groups. Thats just a large over casting shadow that the douche bags like Pat "i need more money" Robinson put onto anything non-christian.

There are satanists out there though. They pray to satan for power on earth, and favor in death. Sick puppies...

And so far hemophelia is incurable. Its a genetic disorder much like sickled cell anemia. The only prospects for a cure right now lay with gene therapy, which is a long way off. Drinking blood would not do anything for this condition, so i think it was more along the lines of just some superstition, like blood letting.

[Soeru]

odd, from the satanic people ive talked to (very few, im not into supa evil and whatnot) they dont have orgies, but they do kill stuff as an afront to god. They tend to know the bible from front to back, and they dont do human sacrifice because they would get locked up. Maybe the one i talked to was just some satanic oddball though. :\

Satanists get all that bad rep because they chose such a silly, attention-grabbing name for their belief, and the ones who claim that they truly worship Satan/Beelzebub/Hades/other infernal-like gods are either posing or are downright mad(particularily those that actually do violent shit).

And by "violent shit" I was referring to sacrifices and drinking blood. If they really do such things then they're either posing, have nothing better to do, or are downright mad.

Also, how can it be satanism if youre not following satan?

This is why I've said so many times that "Satanism" was a bad choice for a name for the belief, because Christians will associate it with worshipping the devil and being ill-natured, but the real goal of Satanism is to lead a happy life under your own control, in fact to a certain extent many might not even believe in spirituality or supernatural beings at all but they use mythology as an aid in explaining their own existencialism. (forgive my poor word choice in this paragraph). A real Satanist wouldn't say "Hail Satan" unless he or she was joking around or to provoke people(I do that at times because it's funny to see some people's reactions). ISatanists are just Christians that became fed up with the Church and want to find their own existence without religion(like atheists) but they take a provocative approach towards Christianity -mostly for fun- which in turn makes them blood-soaked, criminal-like Satanists.

There are satanists out there though. They pray to satan for power on earth, and favor in death. Sick puppies

Yes, there are Satanists out there, but the true Satanists don't promote genocide, ill-natured activity, and all that nifty violent stuff we love to see in the movies.

Here's something interesting I came across:
http://angemorbide.free.fr/mp3/trey5.mpga

It's Trey Azagthoth -the guitarist and main creative force of the band Morbid Angel- who is a firm follower of genuine Satanism. Note how he defines Satanism. I think it should be renamed as "unChristian Positivism", to avoid non-Christian folks that love life from being associated with criminals. It just makes no sense.

I think you may be referring to hemophilia.

Very informative post BTW.

Yes, hemophilia is what the king of Spain suffers from. And thanks.

And so far hemophelia is incurable. Its a genetic disorder much like sickled cell anemia. The only prospects for a cure right now lay with gene therapy, which is a long way off. Drinking blood would not do anything for this condition, so i think it was more along the lines of just some superstition, like blood letting.

The disease caused by a gene that is linked to another disease that prevents the blood from clotting properly, the king of Spain suffers from this disease but I forgot the name as well.

I clearly said that the king of Spain does not have this vampiric disease, he has hemophilia, which is a totally different disease. They're both blood deficiencies however. The king is not a vampire.

Drinking blood does not aid hemophiliacs but it helped the ones suffering from the other disease, of which the name I forget. It also had some effect on the skin, making it very sensible and tender, due to the lack of that certain platelet in the blood their bodies do not produce.

Edit: Doesn't it feel bad that we've made monsters out of people who had that disease? Most died from it, yet we like to fictionalize the victims of the disease as being hideous madmen with pointy teeth.

[X-EvansBasher-X]

Getting away from Satanism for a moment, here's a good quote.

�Religious fundamentalists alone are a huge popular grouping in the United States, which resembles pre-industrial societies in that regard. This is a culture in which three-fourths of the population believe in religious miracles, half believe in the devil, 83 percent believe that the Bible is the �actual� or the inspired word of God, 39 percent believe in the Biblical prediction of Armageddon and �accept it with a certain fatalism,� a mere 9 percent accept Darwinian evolution while 44 percent believe that �God created man pretty much in his present form at one time within the last 10,000 years,� and so on."
-Noam Chomsky

In the immortal words of George Carlin, I have to say that Noam knows his s**t. If some of his observations don't scare you, may I give you a chance to clear your conscience? There is something devine in this universe. But its name ain't God, YHWH, Allah, Vishnu, Ameratsu or any that mankind has seen. Humans are just as alone today as they were 7,000+ years in the past huddled in caves and trying to survive.

I hope we live up to our potential, and discover whatever it is we're supposed to. This concept of "god" is flawed; no one should have to fear someone in order to get into Paradise. If mankind destory itself, it will be the fault of religion.

Time to start over.

[Sprung]

I am never alone

[Soeru]

In the immortal words of George Carlin, I have to say that Noam knows his s**t. If some of his observations don't scare you, may I give you a chance to clear your conscience? There is something devine in this universe. But its name ain't God, YHWH, Allah, Vishnu, Ameratsu or any that mankind has seen. Humans are just as alone today as they were 7,000+ years in the past huddled in caves and trying to survive.

I hope we live up to our potential, and discover whatever it is we're supposed to. This concept of "god" is flawed; no one should have to fear someone in order to get into Paradise. If mankind destory itself, it will be the fault of religion.

Time to start over.

This is pretty much my take on life and divinity. I agree that religion is only helping to distance humans from the real world and make them dream of a wonderful afterlife. I have a concept of "God" but it's not a person-like thing, so it's not something that judges me nor that I could possibly understand now, but I don't have to prove it anything because I believe in no afterlife. I could unconsciously honor "God's" existance by leading an enjoyable life, rather than waste the gift he gave me by giving him endless worship and causing suffering to others in his name..

Faith can help some people find strength in their lives but that's because they cannot find it within themselves. There's an old saying in Spain(but I'm sure it's common amongst most Christians): "Help yourself and God will help you."

[DarkFang]

Nice~ I can't help but have the tendency to doubt religion today, as most of them seem to be so engrossed in it that they toss the credit of everything to god. If god was so powerful, why did he not protect people from the naturally occuring disasters that are plaguing this earth? I take it that some of the teachings are meaningful, like buddhism, which advocates the usage of human virtues in the right way. I'm not saying I agree with buddhism today though. The mahayana buddhism practiced here in Singapore is tainted with taoism. Being a non-believer of god, I deny the existence of such spiritual claims also.

Soeru, I heard a similar phrase from my teacher, who is a catholic. He's not one who would constantly harass you to join the religion, but rather uses god as subtle reminders. What he said was "If you don't even help yourself, god cannot help you" Kinda makes sense... If you don't even try, there is absolutely no chance of a miracle ever happening.