If, for example, Snake�s mission�s goal was in the battlefield of A vs. B, Snake has the option to interfere in the battle or not. To complete a mission, the simplest way will be to sneak into the battlefield without getting noticed by either A or B. However, if he is attacked by Country A, and kills a Country A trooper, that means he becomes an enemy of Country A. So if he continues to fight Country A, that makes him an ally of Country B, and that makes him a hero from a Country B side point of view. And of course it�s up to the player, he could kill somebody from Country B, and that will make him Country B�s enemy as well. So he will have 2 enemies, A and B.
The situation will change in real time, whether you want to interfere in the war or not. So, going back to the story of just one troop, this does not make enemies Snake�s enemy or ally, meaning it will be the things we can�t see as well. It will be more of a psychological thinking towards Snake, and we will like to concentrate on this part as well when we say the things we cannot see.
GI: Very interesting. Especially considering that you�ve always rewarded players for not killing. And now placing Snake in a place where killing has such extreme consequences seems to be taking that moral lesson even further.
Kojima: Basically, I would like to create Metal Gear Solid 4 so that it remains a basic stealth mission. It would be better not to get spotted by either side, whether it is country A or B, because the consequences of the next stage would be if he allied with Country A and destroyed country B in one stage, in the next stage there should have been A vs. B battlefield, but you will end up with just Country A � meaning that what you do will definitely affect the game. We would like to make something so that the users will think about what the consequences will be in the game. This time, like Metal Gear Solid 3, the theme was the West and the East, the Cold War, and we would like to take this a step further. We still want to have a theme in Metal Gear Solid 4 of the things on the battlefield which are not 100% correct. There are a lot of things on a battlefield that are not, from A�s point of view, correct. But from B�s point of view� contradictions.
GI: So are you perhaps touching on a theme of war crimes?
Kojima: Well, not war crimes, but to take it a little step further, I would like to put a theme in Metal Gear Solid 4 of a near future substitution of nations on the battlefield. Not just nations battling against nations, but a substitution. Of course there are many wars of today as well, and I would like to express further the concept of the substitution of war. For instance, if there is a country A and B against each other, even today, maybe some countries don�t have troops or military. Maybe they hire bounty hunters or troops to represent them to fight a war. So it could be a fact that on a battlefield, both sides are actually Americans. Another example is that it should be a battle of nation vs. nation, but sometimes robots or non-human weapons are battling against each other, meaning that they are substituting the actual humans. You saw the little Metal Gear appearing as well, but that�s a robot. That�s not a man battling another man. It should be a battle of nations, but what�s happening is substitution of war. The actual battle is only happening between professional troops and bounty hunters.
GI: Some people would say that wars are already about business. When you look at the war in Iraq, some people believe that we are there for their oil rights. You�ve always made political statements in your games; how much are you looking at the real wars of today?
Kojima: Actually, the message is about what you have partially said about the wars of today. We�re not going to use that exact war of today as an example. We�re going to go into a little bit more of a near-future world, but that�s one of the things we would like to say as well.
GI: We�ve talked a lot about this war that will be happening in Metal Gear Solid 4, and that Snake will be in the middle of it. And you�ve also said that it�s best not to get involved in many situations. But you�ve also said that the theme of the game is that there�s no place to hide. Can you talk about how you have that theme and still keep it a stealth game?
Kojima: The theme �no place to hide�s� answer was actually the battlefield, because in the past we�ve set scenes in Alaska, or New York. In Metal Gear Solid 3, it was a jungle, it was nature. When creating Metal Gear Solid games, the scene decides most of Metal Gear, actually. When we said no place to hide, the battlefield is not one place. It�s not one area, or one building. The situation is always changing. How you evolve always changes. So that�s the answer. That�s �no place to hide.�
It�s not a matter of you can physically hide like you have been doing in the past series on the battlefield. Of course you can hide in a shelter, or behind tanks. What we want to express with no place to hide is that you hide according to the situation. If Country A is winning, then maybe you can wear their uniform. Then you will be able to hide amongst them. If the situation for Country A becomes worse and Country B is winning, you might want to change to the uniform of Country B. The whole environment and situation evolves, and that�s why you have to adapt to the changes in order to hide.
GI: So blending in as one of the troopers is a different kind of hiding than what we�ve seen before. I mean, you�ve touched on it a little bit, but I still find it very exciting. Now that we�ve talked about the theme and the setting a bit, I�d like to talk about the characters. First of all, I have a thematic question about the characters. Snake is synonymous with the Metal Gear Solid series, but he�s truly only starred in one of the three games so far. What do you think it is about Snake that so fascinates people?
Kojima: Yes, you�re right. Solid Snake is the main character of Metal Gear Solid 1. Even for Metal Gear Solid 2, although the main character was Raiden � Raiden came in to highlight Snake�s main character status. In Metal Gear Solid 2, Snake�s reputation rose because of Raiden, but that was because there was a direct comparison between Raiden and Solid Snake.
GI: The character in the trailer definitely appears to be Solid Snake, but I know that you like to surprise your players, so I�m sure you won�t reveal his true identity. But there are some interesting choices with the new look for the character. Why did you choose to go in this direction and give us an elderly Snake?
Kojima: We actually wanted to make you feel that way in the trailer. But the answer is that it is definitely Snake. It�s not Raiden wearing a Snake mask. The reason why he looks much older is because of course he is a clone of Big Boss, and the technology during the seventies was not as mature as it is today.
Also, I want to express the feeling that Solid Snake has, because his mission all the time is to destroy Metal Gear and end the war, but this never happens no matter how much he does. It�s a never-ending war. We want to express that in the character.
Also, ever since the first Metal Gear, it has been 18 years, and probably the fans and the users have changed as well. They�ve gotten married, or have children, or are living in hard times. I wanted to give those users a pat on the shoulder, saying �Snake�s this old, but he keeps on going.�
Also, from the technology point of view, when creating models for a next-gen platform, we can go into much more detail. So there is an option to create a young girl with beautiful skin, but that will not represent what the machine can do. A wrinkled old man with a moustache is a better way to say that we�re using the best technology possible, so that was another reason.
In the trailer, we showed the old fogy Snake, and if we get feedback saying that the fans don�t want this old Snake, maybe we�ll make Snake a little younger looking.
GI: Personally, I like the idea of an older Snake. I liked playing as Raiden in Metal Gear Solid 2, because I liked the idea of playing as someone who isn�t perfect. I like playing as someone heroic like Snake too, but I like the idea of playing as someone with flaws and weaknesses, which is why I like the idea of making Snake past his prime. Based on the trailer, it certainly doesn�t look like Metal Gear Solid has passed its peak, because it�s a beautiful trailer. I wanted to ask you about a few details in the trailer. He has an interesting symbol on his chest.
Kojima: There�s an interesting story there. I didn�t think to use the name Solid Eye for the eye patch. We created the name Solid Eye for the Metal Gear Acid 2 peripheral. Then I got this idea right before TGS of calling it Solid Eye as well, and link it, without telling Metal Gear Acid�s director Shinto Najiri. He (Najiri) realized this only after he saw the trailer. Shinta came to me after seeing the trailer and said �Mr. Kojima, I am surprised. Why did you call that Solid Eye?� That was a funny story at that time.
GI: A moment ago, you mentioned that the Solid Eye was designed to fool people into thinking that Snake was Big Boss. It appears in the promo art that Big Boss is in it.
Kojima: I cannot say. That wasn�t my idea. The artist just drew it. So I have no comment on that.
GI: In that same piece of artwork, Raiden appears to be holding a baby.
Kojima: No comment.
GI: Is it safe to assume that we will see some returning characters, without naming names?
Kojima: Yes. As much as possible, we would like to have the characters from 1 and 2 appear in Metal Gear Solid 4. Because Metal Gear Solid 1 was seven years ago, the users have aged seven years. So have the characters of the Metal Gear Solid world. We wanted to do this, because seven years would make the characters change. You�ll get this united feeling, that this character has changed this way; this character has led this kind of life.
GI: When I initially saw the trailer, I thought that more time had passed between two and four, but since you revealed that Snake is aging rapidly, it seems like less time has passed than some people might expect.
Kojima: Yes. It won�t be like 30 years in the future, it will be more like 10 years. We can�t say specifically, because we�re still working on the plot and the scenario so it will make sense.
GI: What would you like to reveal to our readers about how the way you play the game itself has changed?
Kojima: This time, the world will be set on a battlefield. It�s not just one, and not just battlefields. It will evolve according to situations. It�s still a stealth game. You�ll still get a tense feeling or atmosphere, combined with the situation. Also, even though it�s in the battlefield, we�ll try to make it so you�ll have a psychological advantage, because the troops won�t be AI troops. They�ll be acting and reacting like human beings. If you do something in a psychological way, we�ll try to make the game give you an advantage. There are some hints in the trailer. In the trailer, there is a new Metal Gear. When this comes closer, it makes the noises of a cicada. To most Japanese, this sound makes you think about your childhood days. It takes you back to those times, because you were going outside into nature and getting the cicada. And the actual sound of it walking is a horse clopping. And that cry is a sound of a cow. So combined, these three aspects, the sounds of the cicada, the horse, and the cow, this makes the person who hears the sound a little bit peaceful, because it makes you go back into your childhood memories. You�re supposed to feel tense in a battlefield, but when you hear this, the cicada and the horse and the cow, that really cuts the tense feeling. And when that happens, that Metal Gear attacks you. It�s nasty, and it�s a psychological plot that�s in this Metal Gear.
Apocalypse Now is the different approach, when the helicopter comes in. That is, distract the troops. Metal Gear uses those sounds to relax the troops, and relax you as well. Of course, you as the player can use that as well. This is another psychological aspect.
GI: Will the more lifelike graphics change the way you approach cutscenes in the game?
Kojima: Yes, there will be a change to the demo scenes as well. We will still have the same cutscenes that we traditionally had. We call it the Hollywood type. It�s very good to express feelings to the users. But we will also try a new cutscene as well, like a seamless camera from your point of view to the demo sequence. Something you normally see today in Halo 2 or Half-Life. Something that you can change and move and control. Of course, we will make it better and not a complete copy of those games. We will add some flavor and special touches as well.
GI: Finally, are the online features of Subsistence a hint of what we can expect in MGS4?
Kojima: Yes, it will be. Subsistence is restricted to the PlayStation 2 format, meaning the PlayStation 2 online. It�s within that world. In Metal Gear Solid 4 we will make that wider and much deeper. In Metal Gear Solid 4, we will not be restricted to eight players. So you can probably look forward to having wider and deeper online in Metal Gear Solid 4.
GI: Great. Thank you so much for your time.