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Thread: Cute Klux Klan / Religion - Evolution

  1. #361
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    That's one of the reason's my religion stay out of polotic's and netural. We acknowladge and repspect thier authority, knowing we need them to run our country's. However, thier authority, in our view, does not surpass god's. For example, we obey all the laws of the land, however, if they brought about a law that made preaching illegal, then the would stop god's purpose. In this situation we would continue dispite the law.

    Just like Refusing to go to war. In large wars they make in Conscription to fight, or "do your bit" Even though there is this law, we would not follow it. I remember seening a picture of the world war, with Jehovah god watching over it and tossing a coin. The moral is, both sides had backing from the church, both sides may have believed in god, the same god. Yet they killed each other, supposedly in the name of god. If we, Jehovah's people went to war, we would more then likly kill our own spiritual brothers.
    In 2 Corinthians 10:3 "For though we walk in the flesh, we do not wage warfare according to [what we are in the] flesh" This scripture was to do with Paul warning about false apostle's, we do not wage warefare. The following scriptures will explain more. John 18:36 "Jesus answered: �My kingdom is no part of this world. If my kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I should not be delivered up to the Jews. But, as it is, my kingdom is not from this source" Ephesians 6:12 "because we have a wrestling, not against blood and flesh, but against the governments, against the authorities, against the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places"

    I learned to accept that vengance belong's to god. Yeho�wah� tseva��ohth� (Or Jehovah of Armies) is found 283 times in the bible. I believe in Armageddon, and that this world is in it's last days. Meaning I believe this figurative world ruled by Satan will soon be over, and the Earth will become a paradise as it once was. When the war of Armageddon begin's, after the great tribulation, it will be Jehovah god doing the fighting. 2 Thessalonians 1:6-8 says: "This takes into account that it is righteous on God�s part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for YOU, 7 but, to YOU who suffer tribulation, relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance upon those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus"

    If you don't know what the great tribulation is, here is what the insight book has to say:

    Quote Originally Posted by Book
    When answering the question of his disciples concerning the sign of his presence and the conclusion of the system of things, Jesus mentioned a �great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world�s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again.� (Mt 24:3, 21) As a comparison of Matthew 24:15-22 with Luke 21:20-24 reveals, this had initial reference to a tribulation to come upon Jerusalem. The fulfillment came in 70 C.E., when the city was besieged by the Roman armies under General Titus. This resulted in severe famine conditions and much loss of life. The Jewish historian Josephus relates that 1,100,000 Jews died or were killed, whereas 97,000 survived and were taken into captivity. (The Jewish War, VI, 420 [ix, 3]) Such a �great tribulation� has not occurred again or been repeated upon Jerusalem.

    Jesus also referred to this tribulation in connection with his coming in glory: �Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in lamentation, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send forth his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity.� (Mt 24:29-31) The term �immediately� in this passage does not rule out the possibility of a lapse of a considerable period between the tribulation upon Jerusalem in 70 C.E. and the events that were to follow. Writes Greek scholar A. T. Robertson: �This word, common in Mark�s Gospel as euthus, gives trouble if one stresses the time element. The problem is how much time intervenes between �the tribulation of those days� and the vivid symbolism of verse 29. The use of en tachei [shortly] in Rev. 1:1 should make one pause before he decides. Here we have a prophetic panorama like that with foreshortened perspective. The apocalyptic pictures in verse 29 [of Matthew 24] also call for sobriety of judgment. . . . Literalism is not appropriate in this apocalyptic eschatology.��Word Pictures in the New Testament, 1930, Vol. I, pp. 192, 193.

    Others have made like observations concerning the use of the Greek word rendered �immediately� at Matthew 24:29. A footnote on this text in The Westminster Version of the Sacred Scriptures reads: ��Straightway� [immediately] is probably here �a term of prophecy, not of history�, and so does not imply immediate sequence, which indeed in any case is not always to be pressed . . . Similar terms are common in apocalyptic literature to introduce a new scene in a rapidly changing series of visions: cf. Apoc. xi. 14: xxii. 12.� Matthew Henry�s Commentary on the Whole Bible states: �It is usual, in the prophetical style, to speak of things great and certain as near and just at hand, only to express the greatness and certainty of them. . . . A thousand years are, in God�s sight, but as one day, 2 Pet. iii. 8.��1976, Vol. III, p. 205.

    Biblical evidence indicates that the tribulation upon Jerusalem in 70 C.E. pointed forward to a far greater tribulation. About three decades after Jerusalem�s destruction, the apostle John, with reference to a great crowd of persons from all nations, tribes, and peoples, was told: �These are the ones that come out of the great tribulation.� (Re 7:13, 14) Earlier, the apostle John had seen �four angels� holding back destructive winds so that the sealing of the 144,000 slaves of God might be completed. This sealing evidently links up with the �gathering of the chosen ones� that Jesus foretold would follow the tribulation upon earthly Jerusalem. (Mt 24:31) Accordingly, the �great tribulation� must come after the chosen ones have been gathered and their sealing is completed and when the four angels release the four winds to blow upon the earth, sea, and trees. (Re 7:1-4) The fact that a great crowd �comes out of the great tribulation� shows that they survive it. This is confirmed by a similar expression at Acts 7:9, 10: �God was with [Joseph], and he delivered him out of all his tribulations.� Joseph�s being delivered out of all his tribulations meant not only that he was enabled to endure them but also that he survived the afflictions he experienced.

    It is noteworthy that the apostle Paul referred to the execution of God�s judgment upon the ungodly as tribulation. He wrote: �This takes into account that it is righteous on God�s part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for you, but, to you who suffer tribulation, relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance upon those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus.� (2Th 1:6-8) The book of Revelation shows that �Babylon the Great� and �the wild beast� have brought tribulation upon God�s holy ones. (Re 13:3-10; 17:5, 6) It therefore logically follows that the tribulation to come upon �Babylon the Great� and �the wild beast� is included in the �great tribulation.��Re 18:20; 19:11-21.
    For Evans, the moral philosipher, all the above except what is quoted is my own words.
    Raaagghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..... hh..

  2. #362
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    Still, i say, it's already there, to make a move to take it out just because it offends some one, why can't other make equally radical moves over other things just because they're offended?

    Xena, that is true. Chances are though a religous battle will only occure with slightly conflicting religons, like catholics and christians, if they were to be fighting for the same god. Knowing the catholics vs the christians, it would probably be christians just plain defending themselves but i doubt either are going to go to war anytime soon. Chances are it'll be one god's army against an oposing god's army. Somthing more exact would be Catholics with Christians and baptists and so forth against muslims, but i think once again it would be the side with the christians defending themselves. I think that much is obvious, but it's subject to change. (technically, they'rea already at war with the athiests and agnostics denying it with a few more religons.)

    EDIT: well, not all of them. But a good number. I think the word "infeidel" would remind a few people.

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    Catholics are Christians, silly.
    ø„¸¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¸„ø¤º° ¨¨°º¤ø„¸ EDWARD CULLEN IS THE KING OF VAMPYRES! HE IS BETTER THAN BILL COMPTON, LESTAT DE LIONCOURT, VLAD THE IMPALER, & DICK CHENEY ¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¸„ø¤º°¨¨°� �¤ø„¸

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    Well if you know the story of the four horsemen of the aplocalypse (which is debatably 5, considering the details of death & hades on the pale horse is unconfirmably the same person.) You will know that we believe war is unaviodable. We believe 1914 is when three of the sybolic horsemen began to ride - war, famine and pestilance, and have not yet finished thier ride.

    War, the world wars I & II were the worst the world has ever seen. Famine, during the war, millions of europeons died of hunger, and one in three people now are starving. Pestilance, during 1918-1919, the Spanish influenza epidemic alone killed about 20,000,000. Thats rougly the same as the black death, and that is just one example.
    It relates to Nebuchadnezzar�s dream (The king of Babylon) where he say a large tree with bands placed upon it, that have now been removed from it's stump.

    The bible did prophicy this being the time of the end, and there being peace before the end. Of course that is what I believe
    It is the firey coloured horse that is war, which is "taking away peace from the Earth".
    So I believe a time with-out peace is uninevitable. Here is a biblical account of the horsemen: Revilation 6 2:6

    And I saw, and, look! a white horse; and the one seated upon it had a bow; and a crown was given him, and he went forth conquering and to complete his conquest.

    And when he opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say: �Come!� And another came forth, a fiery-colored horse; and to the one seated upon it there was granted to take peace away from the earth so that they should slaughter one another; and a great sword was given him.

    And when he opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say: �Come!� And I saw, and, look! a black horse; and the one seated upon it had a pair of scales in his hand. And I heard a voice as if in the midst of the four living creatures say: �A quart of wheat for a de�nar�i�us, and three quarts of barley for a de�nar�i�us; and do not harm the olive oil and the wine.�

    As you can see it's sybolic and wouldn't mean alot with out looking at other parts of the bible. We believe the prophicy regarding The great tree in the king's dream to have been ended by Tishri 15, or October 4/5, 1914 C.E. If you wish for a very detialed explination regarding the great tree dream, let em know.

    We believe the great tribulation will be goverment's turning on religion. We believe religion to be called "Babylon the great" Which is mentioned in the last part of my quote from the book.
    Raaagghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..... hh..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fate
    Also; Why can't people learn about evolution in school, and creationism in church?
    Because most people don't go to church. But that doesn't mean they are athiest. Take me for example, I'm a christian, but I believe that you don't need to go to church to show your faith in the lord. I read the bible when I want to learn about god. I don't need a preacher to tell me whats in the bible I can read it myself.

    Then I'd like you to look at this conversation we of the forum are having. One part of this forum believes that only creationism should be taught, while another believes only the scientific side should be taught. We are biased. But children aren't. They don't know how to be. If we teach both theory's (may I remind you that Darwin's idea's behind mankinds existence are still theory, as are creationist), children will be able to decide which of the theory's are more sensible. Adults are to biased, we will only look at the side of the facts that support our views/beliefs.

    Let the children decide. <-- Huge Play on your Emotions.
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  6. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paladin_Hammer
    Because most people don't go to church. But that doesn't mean they are athiest. Take me for example, I'm a christian, but I believe that you don't need to go to church to show your faith in the lord. I read the bible when I want to learn about god. I don't need a preacher to tell me whats in the bible I can read it myself.

    Then I'd like you to look at this conversation we of the forum are having. One part of this forum believes that only creationism should be taught, while another believes only the scientific side should be taught. We are biased. But children aren't. They don't know how to be. If we teach both theory's (may I remind you that Darwin's idea's behind mankinds existence are still theory, as are creationist), children will be able to decide which of the theory's are more sensible. Adults are to biased, we will only look at the side of the facts that support our views/beliefs.

    Let the children decide.
    Well, if children commonly reached decisions through reading up on things and getting information from multiple, neutral sources and such as opposed to just going with what's shinier, then maybe I'd agree with you.

    As I said, anyway, the theory of evolution does have a scientific basis, and if some really cool new fossils are discovered, it can be updated accordingly. If both theories are still around a hundred years from now, creationism will likely be highly similar if not exactly the same as it is now, while the theory of evolution probably will have been changed to be more accurate. I don't think very many people are entirely unaware that church and science are pretty much the two opposing sides in the great "how and why of everything" argument, and they can easily be informed of the former's position by reading the Bible, letting JWs in or whatever, while a rather detailed scientific theory isn't as easily understood without some sort of education on the subject. If people do want to know about creationism and such, I think they will go to church, read the Bible or look it up on Wikipedia. No need to force it on them.

    Keep religion to the church, is what I'm saying. They won't be of much use if you're going to make schools do all the work for them, anyway.
    ø„¸¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¸„ø¤º° ¨¨°º¤ø„¸ EDWARD CULLEN IS THE KING OF VAMPYRES! HE IS BETTER THAN BILL COMPTON, LESTAT DE LIONCOURT, VLAD THE IMPALER, & DICK CHENEY ¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¸„ø¤º°¨¨°� �¤ø„¸

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fate
    Catholics are Christians, silly.
    Not quite. From what i've understood of the catholics, they also pray to more than just god and jesus. Jesus said to pray to him. Therefor making catholics not fallowers of christ for they are not doing what he said. (If you do somthing again waht they say you are not a fallower of them. And a christian is a fallower of christ.)

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    jesus never ever said anybody should pray to him! He always refused being worshiped and after doing some miracles he never to be honored but said to worship his father for that!
    Christians are christians becauses Jesus Christ "founded" that and told what to do. But what the Catholics made out of that is another matter exaclty against the bible...



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    Quote Originally Posted by kohlrak
    Not quite. From what i've understood of the catholics, they also pray to more than just god and jesus. Jesus said to pray to him. Therefor making catholics not fallowers of christ for they are not doing what he said. (If you do somthing again waht they say you are not a fallower of them. And a christian is a fallower of christ.)
    Quote Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity
    Since the Reformation, Christianity is usually represented as being divided into three main branches:

    1. Catholicism (includes the largest coherent group, the Roman Catholic Church, including Eastern Catholics, with over one billion baptized members);
    2. Eastern Christianity (includes the Eastern Orthodox Churches, the Oriental Orthodox Churches and the Assyrian Church of the East);
    3. Protestantism (many denominations and schools of thought, including Anglicanism, Reformed, Lutheran, Methodist, Anabaptist, Evangelicalism, Charismatics and Pentecostalism).
    Now I suppose you're going to tell me about why your little theory is an authority over Wikipedia on the matter...
    ø„¸¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¸„ø¤º° ¨¨°º¤ø„¸ EDWARD CULLEN IS THE KING OF VAMPYRES! HE IS BETTER THAN BILL COMPTON, LESTAT DE LIONCOURT, VLAD THE IMPALER, & DICK CHENEY ¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¸„ø¤º°¨¨°� �¤ø„¸

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    Quote Originally Posted by kohlrak
    Not quite. From what i've understood of the catholics, they also pray to more than just god and jesus. Jesus said to pray to him. Therefor making catholics not fallowers of christ for they are not doing what he said. (If you do somthing again waht they say you are not a fallower of them. And a christian is a fallower of christ.)
    Christian
    adj.
    Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.


    You have a poor understanding of Christianity, Jesus never demanded worship. If you believe that Jesus -the mac daddy of Christianity- is the son of God, you are Christian. True Catholics are essentialy fundamentalist Christians. Doesn't matter what church or doctrine you belong to, you still worship the same God and read the same sacred text, except some doctrines decide to interpret it differently.

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    I suppose someone forgot to tell the Catholics that they aren't Christian, either. They certainly imply they are, too.

    Moreover, the Christianity of which we speak is that which we find realized in the Catholic Church alone; hence, we are not concerned here with those forms which are embodied in the various non-Catholic Christian sects, whether schismatical or heretical.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soeru
    Christian
    adj.
    Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.


    You have a poor understanding of Christianity, Jesus never demanded worship. If you believe that Jesus -the mac daddy of Christianity- is the son of God, you are Christian. True Catholics are essentialy fundamentalist Christians. Doesn't matter what church or doctrine you belong to, you still worship the same God and read the same sacred text, except some doctrines decide to interpret it differently.
    i dont mean to be mean but.... BURN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soeru
    except some doctrines decide to interpret it differently.
    Like the trinity.
    Raaagghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..... hh..

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    Quote Originally Posted by ssnake42069
    i dont mean to be mean but.... BURN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    What? Mine was way better.
    ø„¸¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¸„ø¤º° ¨¨°º¤ø„¸ EDWARD CULLEN IS THE KING OF VAMPYRES! HE IS BETTER THAN BILL COMPTON, LESTAT DE LIONCOURT, VLAD THE IMPALER, & DICK CHENEY ¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¸„ø¤º°¨¨°� �¤ø„¸

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    Pardon me, i phrased that very very wrong. To pray through him. (i think it was that, i really need to brush up.. to be honest i havn't read teh bible past genesis and it's been months since i had any thing to deal with jesus via reading or watching anything. I really really should get around to it. I know one thing for sure, we're supposed to consider him the one that brings us the forgivness.) Sorry if i offended anyone. I have a habit of phrasing things wrong. (what i think i am saying dosn't always come out of my mouth or on the keyboard the same. I don't know why... i think it's my ADHD. I'll start typing and loose my train of thought. Through him is what i ment to say.)

    As i have said, it's about time i get around to actually reading the bible not going by the fragments of a few of the stories i've been told.

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