Advent Children

[pkt-zer0]

An all-encompassing FF7: Advent Children discussion thread! I don't consider myself a huge fan of the game, it was still good. But the movie looks absolutely schweet! I found a site recently (adventchildren.net), and was LMAO at some of the "user submitted theories" submitted there. Just read the most recent 3-4 pages, and you'll get the feel of it.
Anyhow, here are my theories I submitted (and an extra one).

Now, I haven't read all of the theories here, but some of them feel very wrong, so I'm presenting my overall view on what the plot/background will be like.

In the battle against the Abomination from the Skies, Jenova, the party of Cloud defeated her child, that would reclaim the planet for her, Sephiroth. In trying to fuse with the soul of the planet itself, the Lifestream became irreversibly corrupted. The power of the ancient Cetra was not enough to destroy the infestation of Jenova, but it could stop the destruction of the Planet from Meteor.

2 years later...

"A mysterious illness, Geostigma, is taking hope from the people..." Jenova's infection still lingers, warping the soul and mind of people, killing them in the end.
"The children are always the first to suffer..." Even then, some can survive being tormented by Geostigma... Their mighty soul holds them above anyone else. They are the Advent Children, the Second Coming of Jenova. Kadaj, Loz and Yazoo are trying to obtain the head of Jenova, to Reunite it once again. However, Kadaj realizes something's terribly wrong...
"A second Sephiroth could be created..." With a new body from the Reunion, a warrior's soul can find it's way back to the Planet. Sephiroth is trying to resurrect.
"We are investigating the effect of Sephiroth..." A wrecked man in a wheelchair has plans of his own for the children. His loyal allies, the Turks, are trying to recover the head of Jenova from Kadaj's group. They can only succeed, if they ally with Cloud. It seems though, that the dealings with them are less than successful, so the man in the wheelchair has to resort to manipulation. With Kadaj in his hand, he can control the group, and the President of Shinra Electric Company will rise again, through the power of Jenova.
"Let's go to Mother's place..." Jenova gives destruction to those it touches. Kadaj is trying to teach the Denzel and the children how to wield that power. In realizing that he's no longer human, he forsakes his friends, his power fueling the horrid monsters attacking Midgar.

End of plot discussion. The ideas I find quite little possibility in:
- Wheelchair Sephiroth: A proud warrior rather has his head cut off than bow before anyone! He refers to Cloud as EX-Soldier. And he asks for help from him. I can only imagine Rufus being this manipulative, he was that kind of guy in the game, too. And yeah, I thought that when they didn't show Rufus actually DYING in the Weapon attack, they though he would be coming back. Yeah, and he somehow survived Meteor scorch too, right. But he's badass, so that makes him invincible.
- Wheelchair NON-Rufus: Stating that they're enemies with Cloud is all the more reason the use him. And Kadaj. And the Turks. I think if he looks like the one behind it all, then he has to BE behind it all. And maybe Rufus if offering a cure for Cloud's Geostigma.
- Aeris coming back: You see her in a visionary scene. There are NO real endless flowery plains. So there.
- Sephiroth clones: This would be rather funny. Without Shinra, who has the technology left to create clones? I think they are some "natural" reincarnation of Sephiroth.

Too much fanboyism...

I don't really like how too many people think of Advent Children as a continuation of the game, with the Ribbons being an accessory that would protect from certain status afflictions. Keh, you could even state that the guys don't have their ultimate weapons equipped, so that's why they don't kill Bahamut (or whatever that flying monster is) with a single hit, or Knights of the Round summon, or whatever. You see no ATB gauges anywhere, so try and forget about the game.

Another thing to note is that this film carries on the anime conventions, namely:
1) the hero is not always really the good guy
2) the bad guys have motivations that justify for their evil deeds
3) characters only die for the sake of plot, if they are fun to have around, they'll survive for a sequel or two.

So, I'm saying that Tseng is dead. He is dead so the Turks wouldn't have that kind of authority backing them up now. Not to mention that he died (I think) in the Temple of Ancients which became the Black Materia. Anyhow, he's not that much of a badass, or an intrigueing character, so he probably won't make a comeback.
I've also seen someone write that he has all the necessary motivations, because he loved Aeris. I doubt that, because
a) saying that he blames Cloud for not saving her is ridiculous. If Tseng was there, could he have saved her? Not really, going up against Sephiroth. Aeris accepted that kind of death, it was her fate to die trying to save the planet.
b) a Turk's loyalties lie with the firm and Shin-Ra alone. It was the way of enforcing their rules on their people, I can't really imagine how Rufus could've tried to build an "empire of fear" otherwise.

One other thing: saying that Kadaj was just a puppet, the same as Cloud "in the old times". I think this fits the manipulative personality of Rufus, it is very much like him to pit Cloud and the group of Kadaj against each other. It's not clear to my as exactly what he could achieve by doing that, but this seems to be what Square is going to do. Make it seem like the SHM are the bad guys, and then make us learn that they were just manipulated by a greater force. Classic way of storyletting. Look at FF7, for instance. Sephiroth runs along to destroy the planet, but only to reclaim it for his mother. Obviously, by this time he's already insane. He does a fairly good job of manipulating Cloud, so that's why he can be called a puppet. Kadaj is probably lured into the carefully laid out plans of Rufus by promising a Reunion, so that "their people" would claim the land again.

Oh, and Seph fits the "evil brother" archetype, so that's why he's going to come back at the end of the film: Cloud has to face his greater enemy, one so much like himself, yet so terrifyingly strong. If you just think about what makes YOU and a pscyhotic killer different, you'll see that it's nothing much, since you both are human... Heh, the dual nature of man is always a good symbol to have in films. Aeris is the "angel" archetype, a guiding light that she is, she's going to stay dead, as in "eternally unliving". Her memory is much more than what she could give Cloud any other way.
I also think that Cloud giving up on things is an effect of Geostigma. It affects the soul itself, that's why he hasn't the power to carry on.

Oh, Rufus is going to be the Wheelchair person. And no, I'm not in love with "Rufes", as it's only the Square way of doing things. I've played quite many of their games, and I can probably guess what kind of people they are trying to appeal to. And these same people would probably find it a marvelous idea that the WCM is Rufus.
It's not really that surprising in my opinion, but I never said I really liked how Square laid out the story, most of the time. It's the subtle difference between knowing how the ending will turn out, but not being sure whether or not that is possible, or being sure how the game WON'T end. The latter basically means that there HAVE to be some twists, even if they're not logical, at all. A typical example of a perfectly laid out storyline is Vagrant Story. You can only see how things relate to each other, if you look back at what happened. You're only going to know the reasons later. In FF7, this goes like this: Seph is insane, trying to destroy the world. Cloud gets insane for trying to stop Seph. Cloud finally goes back to normal with the help of love and friendship. Cloud defeats Seph with the strong will he has acquired on his journey. He's a hero and tra-la-la, everyone's happy. Unlike Ashley, having been bestowed a huge power and responsibility, being forced into living like an outcast, roaming the lands where noone else goes.

you know..i jsut read some theories..and i found out alot of stuff.......Tseng is the WHC, reason? Elane *or w/e* the Female turk, stays on the WCP's side, while reno, rude and! *get ready for the spoiler* Kadaj! become allies with....CLOUD! wanna know how i found this out? face it...we all see Rufes get hit by the full blast of Diamond, and he was never treated with Jenova cells, because the only one that knew how to use them, is Hojo and his team, what happened to them though? they all got killed! sorry, its done, rufes is gone, now for the reason Kadaj joins up? Jenova wants the earth dead, kadaj was tricked into helping them, and Sephiroth does come back, kadaj was used to re-gather jenova's body, so she could give berth to Sephiorth once more, Yazoo and Loz stay on sephiroth side though, lets face it....they arent to smart, Kadaj is the smartest, and he learns what is about to happen, and wants to help cloud, reno and rude discover that Tseng is also using them to Destroy Cloud for his own personaly reasons, and helps the SHM, once they discover this, they turn there back on the rest of the turks and shinra, but you'll notice, Geostigma brings aerith back to life, for it is the planets energy, and needs help to stop jenova and sephiroth once more, thus reviving her, once Tseng see's this, he learns his mistake, and he goes insane, this is my theory, think long and hard on this, it all comes together....

Yeah, I wanted to address these ideas too, I just forgot.
- Kadaj wouldn't turn against Sephiroth, as he is... *quite* obsessed with reviving Jenova himself. (Shouting "Mother!" all the time and the speech he gives to the abducted orphans.)
- Tseng can't be using Kadaj and co. to kill Cloud. Why would he hire Cloud to protect him from the silver haired guys, then? It would be simpler only to hire the SHM to go kill Cloud and be done with it, instead of revealing himself to his supposed "enemy". That way, Cloud would know who to go after when he sees some black-dressed assasins tailing him.
- Aeris won't be revived if the Planet needs her help, as that is *exactly* what she died for. She is essentially a part of the Planet now, so that would make even less sense. Sephiroth, however, with his mindset surely sees being part of it all as a cage he needs to break free from. He succeeds, as the trailers suggest.
Regarding the six reasons you wrote for Tseng wanting to kill Cloud:
1-2,5-6: These imply that Tseng was in love with Aeris, or at least wanted her desperately. I could very well imagine his urge to dominate, but why a single female then, why not, say, the world?
3: Yep, that's true. But the will of Jenova was basically to revive her instrument of destruction, Sephiroth, so I think someone would have achieved it someway, anyways.
4: Villains without reasons seem like they weren't though out properly. Square wouldn't want to be seen as making a "shabby movie with shabby villains", I'm sure.
I'd also like to add, that with Weapons being the... umm... weapons of the Planet, they are essentialy *of* the Planet, meaning Lifestream. So, Rufus getting hit with the lifeforce of the Planet would probably mean getting a horrible Geostigma this way, if you assume that the corruption of Jenova would start to manifest in the lifestream like that. This would make a little sense, because it has been said somewhere that the Wheelchair Person has a horrible infliction. It could be possible that he wants to resurrect Sephiroth and use his power to cure himself? Still, I don't think that's possible.
R: "I brought you back from the dead, now serve me!"
S: "You're almost dead anyway, I'll spare you the pain..." *Stab*
I don't think even Rufus could talk Seph into submission.

Oh, and it's fun to see people backing up their claims with reasons like "I've got all of the Master Materia, so I know the game better than anyone else." What exactly does owning those little magic spheres add to the depth of the story? Not much I'm afraid.

So, that's how I think the movie will probably turn out. Feel free to discuss the following things:

• Advent Children storyline/graphics/whatever
• Square selling their products only with the FF brand (FF12 doesn't have any people working on it that made the previous FFs)
• And yet more figures, OVAs, remakes, prequels, sequels, and no originality

[Gare]

Hmm. What bothers me is that most people are sooo very hardcore fans of the game, that they forget this is going to be a movie... and they say things about ribbons being in the movie, preventing status diseases, like in the game, and people using their Limit Breaks all over. They're overreacting the whole AC-thing. The thing I want to say is: hey, people, calm down, this is not Final Fantasy VII-2, this is Advent Children. Christ.

[albrowne]

Indeed. But they are also forgetting it doesn't even work like that in the game, let alone in a movie. For example, why didn't Cloud simply give Aeries a phoenix down?

[Gare]

Lol yeah, you get the idea, I see...

I recommend taking a look at that site, there are so many ridiculous theories... I mean, okay, I have no idea what the story will be like, but I just can't believe a guy telling that Rufus is Cloud's twin brother, because of the colour of their hair

[brit]

For example, why didn't Cloud simply give Aeries a phoenix down?

Crusher yelled at me about this one he said something like: "Phoenix Downs only work on people who get knocked out, not dead, idiot!" I'd have to agree, finally.

[Solidus Joe]

well being as I haven't kept myself updated I must ask...

Is advent children out yet? (US)

I'd go look it up myself, but I'll probably get a quicker answer here.

[albrowne]

Crusher yelled at me about this one he said something like: "Phoenix Downs only work on people who get knocked out, not dead, idiot!" I'd have to agree, finally.

If Emerald Weapon exploded the goddamn ground underneath you, you'd be pretty damn dead.

[Gare]

well being as I haven't kept myself updated I must ask...

Is advent children out yet? (US)

I'd go look it up myself, but I'll probably get a quicker answer here.

The official release date is 14th September 2005, but I guess this is for the Japanese version. About the US release... umm... I dunno.

[pkt-zer0]

Define what a "Down/Dawn/Doun" IS exactly.
Anyway, it's a unique fantasy setting, so that could be possible. (I'm only writing this because I can't think of anything moderately funny right now )

[Solidus Joe]

The official release date is 14th September 2005, but I guess this is for the Japanese version. About the US release... umm... I dunno.

what crap.

wasn't it originally supposed to be out this summer in Japan?

how disappointing.

[Kosmo Yagkoto]

I like movies and I liked FF7, so I am pretty sure that I will be happy unless it sucks.

[Gare]

what crap.

wasn't it originally supposed to be out this summer in Japan?

how disappointing.

Umm, when the first trailer came out, they said "Coming soon... Summer 2004". Well, almost.

Btw, here's the North American site of the movie. http://na.square-enix.com/dvd/ff7ac/

[Shadow X]

It's going to be released in the US and Japan at the same time.

[albrowne]

I am pretty sure that I will be happy unless it sucks.

Can pretty much say that about anything. Optimistic though.

[crusher]

Crusher yelled at me about this one he said something like: "Phoenix Downs only work on people who get knocked out, not dead, idiot!" I'd have to agree, finally.

I said that?

Must've been ages ago. I remotely remember saying something like that.