Bombs and Stuff

[Dingy]

Talk about mood swings...

Ryu, you pregnant? Or is that time of the month again. Ok maybe I am the one on drugs.

[Ryu]

Talk about mood swings...

It's that time of month

[Dingy]

omg! I was right! I'm not high!

[Ryu]

Lol, im just having a laugh at my own expence

[Drageuth]

There was a bomb-threat at your school today. It was kinda cool.
That's my entire contribution to the thread. While I know it probably wasn't the smartest idea, the destruction of those two cities so many years ago, killing thousands of innocent people, probably saved the lives of million and helped to end the war much faster than extended warfare would have. That's about it.

[madcrow]

the US was very, very wrong and not just in using the a-bomb. regular bombs and napalm firebombs used during 1944 and 1945 ended up not only leveling major cities like berlin, dresen, tokyo, osaka, etc. but also in killing millions of civilians. if it kills civilians, it's wrong. in fact, even when fighting a battle with soldiers, it's wrong to be deliberately cruel. if there was a way to win a battle and take 100,000 prisoners or kill all 100,000 enemy soldiers, the right thing to do would be take POWs... but i digress.

[Paul Miller]

Honestly, as soon as Pearl Harbor happened, I would have sent the Japs a uranium fruit basket.

We hadn't developed the weapons at that point.

.... They Can't.

I'll finish it off for you
But the way I see it, is that the A-Bomb was made, and they had to test it, is there really anywhere in the world the can test an A-Bomb without it doing harm?
I think not, if they don't test it, how do they know if it will work?

Also if they don't build the damn thing someone else will, and that someone will no doubt not give a fuck where they test the bomb..

The US tested it in New Mexico first, I believe.... those bombs weren't nearly as destructive as you would think. Not that they are trivial by any means, but blasts can be withstood. It was less of a 'testing' as Toto would like to believe, we knew they worked, more of a showcase. Look how afraid everyone is of them... imagine if nobody knew. Russia got them shortly afterwards, and relations with Russia were already deteriorating. The Allies all rushed to capture Berlin... and met there. Democracy vs. Communism would show through in the end, hence the split of Germany into East and West. What if the world wasn't afraid of those weapons? The Cold War may have had a very different outcome.... I'm sure both sides would have kept them secret from the public if the US didn't drop them.

the US was very, very wrong and not just in using the a-bomb. regular bombs and napalm firebombs used during 1944 and 1945 ended up not only leveling major cities like berlin, dresen, tokyo, osaka, etc. but also in killing millions of civilians. if it kills civilians, it's wrong. in fact, even when fighting a battle with soldiers, it's wrong to be deliberately cruel. if there was a way to win a battle and take 100,000 prisoners or kill all 100,000 enemy soldiers, the right thing to do would be take POWs... but i digress.

How do you propose we take these prisoners? These people were told (and did) fight to the death. They hopped in planes loaded with explosives and only enough fuel for a one way trip. Not exactly pacifists.... read the Okinawa thing. 10000 Japanese commited suicide rather than be captured....

So by your logic the Lives of a few thousand US Soilders, who are prepared to die honorably, for the US, are of Greater value then those of a Few Hundred thousand Japanese Civilians...

Some how the numbers dont add up... We should not have killed Civilians, Had we bombed a military base, that would be diffrent... but a City... that's just wrong.

I think that one Civilian life is greater then all lives of all the Soilders lives.

I mean we fight the war to protect the civilians from it...

I like how you call it a few thousand soldiers... and how easily discriminate civilian and soldier. All soldiers were civilians at one point. It was at most 200,000 by bombs, you should check out the numbers from Osaka. Also, the misconception that real life is some sort of.... strategy game is entirely flawed. Military bases can be in and around cities, or they can be remote. But more importantly than hitting a few barracks, is hitting the factories where weapons are made. Which are in the city. WWII, no cars... people didn't drive a good distance to work. Taking away the factories, taking away their weaponry, is better than killing people... but people need to know when to get away. We dropped leaflets telling them the bombs were coming.... and anyone who works in a factory has to know at some point, the enemy is coming to shut it down.

"I think that one Civilian life is greater then all lives of all the Soilders lives." That is your opinion, I guess, and I can't fault you for it... but I don't see what logic drives it. What does it matter if someone dies in a uniform or in regular clothes? They were civilians at one point, I doubt they volunteered, especially once the war was more or less lost.

"I mean we fight the war to protect the civilians from it..." That.... is, I don't know. Naive. No war in history has ever gone down with that cause, except maybe the so called "war on terror" (yeah, right). They are all fueled by some political agenda. ALL of them. Don't think the US is innocent at all in WWII.... there was more at work than most will tell you.

[Xaenn]

Democracy vs. Communism

Ehem...capitalism vs communism.

There's no way you can compare democracy and communism as parallels.

[Daedric]

Why not? Are they not both forms of government? You can compare them, but believing in one or the other is totally up to the individual.

Ah, didn't clarify that one either. Capitalism and Communism it is.

[Kosmo Yagkoto]

technically Xeann is right as they are both economic systems.

[Paul Miller]

Ehem...capitalism vs communism.

There's no way you can compare democracy and communism as parallels.

Fair enough. My apologies for that oversight. Yes, capitalism vs. Communism. Sure. The point was, and still is, that the capitalist countries were competing with the communist ones before the war had even ended.

[Xaenn]

Fair enough. My apologies for that oversight. Yes, capitalism vs. Communism. Sure. The point was, and still is, that the capitalist countries were competing with the communist ones before the war had even ended.

I'm just a stickler on that point. And I knew exactly what you meant but yeah...it's a technicality I always like to clarify on.

Edit: oh yeah, i wasn't offended at all, and also

It's Xaenn

[Paladin_Hammer]

the US was very, very wrong and not just in using the a-bomb. regular bombs and napalm firebombs used during 1944 and 1945 ended up not only leveling major cities like berlin, dresen, tokyo, osaka, etc. but also in killing millions of civilians. if it kills civilians, it's wrong. in fact, even when fighting a battle with soldiers, it's wrong to be deliberately cruel. if there was a way to win a battle and take 100,000 prisoners or kill all 100,000 enemy soldiers, the right thing to do would be take POWs... but i digress.

Wha-? If I'm right, we AND the Russian's killed the Nazi's, who killed millions in death camps. Is it just me or is Madcrow really against America so much, that he's blinded as to what the rest of the world is/was doing. Far as I remember, Naplam was first used in late Korea. We develpoed it as a cold war weapon. The mass majority of civies who died during the war in Europe died from hunger and poor medcare (no relief had been prepared, hell they got fat and sassy off the jews, let 'em starve a little, see how THEY like it.) Stalin gave the orders "shoot on site". After the battle of Stalingrad, that was russia's policy, 'take no prisoners'. The only time American troops did that was when no officer was present really, w/ the exception of the Normandy Invasion and other cases (some 200-400 germans who surrendered were executed. Mostly the case was that the surrendering Germans surrendered to the same men that they had been firing at minutes before, and the Americans were pissed at lossing they're friends, so they didn't care.) Normandy is obvious. On Omaha over 3000 US troops died, and of course those who made it through were mad as hell with the germans. To mad to not shoot. But if all YOUR friends died in that fight, you'd be to ticked to take POW's to.

Honestly, as soon as Pearl Harbor happened, I would have sent the Japs a uranium fruit basket.

We sorta did. Ever heard of Little Man, or Fat Man? The two bombs we used of course. But on par with the japanese who surivived Hiroshima and Nagasaki, those who survived had massive burns and became sterile. 250,000 died due to radiation. Remember something Dingy and all other US haters, we never wanted that war, we stayed out so long that Great Britian could hardly assist when we took Germany (they were beaten up pretty badly). But hell, the brits are one tough-assed people. America would have not survived if it faced the same Air-War the Brits did.

[GundamGuy]

We sorta did. Ever heard of Little Man, or Fat Man? The two bombs we used of course. But on par with the japanese who surivived Hiroshima and Nagasaki, those who survived had massive burns and became sterile. 250,000 died due to radiation. Remember something Dingy and all other US haters, we never wanted that war, we stayed out so long that Great Britian could hardly assist when we took Germany (they were beaten up pretty badly). But hell, the brits are one tough-assed people. America would have not survived if it faced the same Air-War the Brits did.

It's good to know you condone the deaths of 350,000 civilans. Good for you.

[Toto]

Mr Paladin Hammer, the US in no way took Germany.The US defeated Japan, an aspect which helped, certainly, but didn't take Germany. It was all the USSR. The USSR who weren't aided in any way during the sieges, who were supposed to be destroyed by Germany, the way the capitalist countries wanted it. That's why appeasement survived. "Let the extremes kill each other."
That didn't happen. The USSR survived, and stormed across Europe, and took Germany. The war in Africa was a bullshit way of getting out of facing Germany, and the amount of other European troops shoved there for no reason was stupid.
Also, you say that "we never wanted that war." Jack the Ripper, I'm sure, never wanted to be sexually aroused by the mutiliation of women, but he did it, and the fact that he did makes him answerable to his crimes. The same applies to the US.