Feminism...

[Paul Miller]

OHNOES!!!!

Fellows, I have seen the error of my ways.

We MUST CRUSH FEMINISM!!!! It is clear to me that it is the single greatest threat ever in this world. Pregnant women in the military.... we CANNOT have that!!!!!

Check this out.... the whole blurb from the site,
"Pregnancy
Psst. Did you hear that the infamous PFC Lynndie R. England is pregnant? And so are thousands of less famous service women in all branches, especially the Army and Marines. Please tell me what�s going on in your outfit. I�ve been getting serious stonewalling from the PAO folks at the Pentagon. They treat pregnancy stats with a higher security classification then the number of nukes in their arsenals. Am told they have no stats on pregnancy and they suggest it is not a big problem. This is totally opposite of what hundreds of troops have reported to me. If you can get your hands on some hard stats for your unit, please send �em along. Have the stats for the 101st Airborne and 3d Mech and they�re mind boggling."
Strange how these 'females' can become 'pregnant.' Must be through some sort of cult ritual.... some kind of bloodletting once they enter this 'military.' Men, however, can handle it, WITH NO RISK OF BECOMING PREGNANT!!!! This, my friends, is it! No women in the military. This pregnancy disease must be stopped.



Yea, uh, ok.

So, who knew humans were sexual beings? 6 billion of us around... go figure. I like how that blurb didn't link to anything... just his email. He was asking other people for data.... yea, big item you found there! And what makes this source credible? In a court of law, you have to establish some crediblility... ever heard of the term 'expert witness?' Who is this guy? Anyone? Some 60 bitter Communist angry at everything America and women do? Some 80 year old senile person... posting things for fun? Don't think I'm going to be suckered into clicking on any of your other glorious links, until you show me something decent. A few pictures of a few women doing terrible things and you think you have won the world. No, there are men commiting those acts too, and on the whole, they are a drop in the bucket. And the Iraqi's do the same, if not, much worse. Oh, and the blurb, SHOCKING the Pentagon doesn't freely give away information. Oh hey, if I ever work there, I will have a public website, with clearly labelled directories: "D-Day Invasion Plans," "Nuclear Weapons Programs and their technology," "How the country can continue to survive in the face of ignoring all the threats jace is clearly warning us about that will inevitably cause the destruction of the world, if not the entire universe," etc etc. Then everyone can know all about everything... oh wait, you will just accuse people of hiding more things. Here's a bold statement, you sir, are paranoid. I could continue this rant for quite a while.... but I have things to do. If I didn't have things to do, I might even look for some 'statistics' to counter your arguments.

And yes, I have considered that I may be wrong. In fact, I admit it all the time. Not this time, however. Not yet, at least.

But I'd also like to point out you didn't say a thing about how I went on about how statistics can be misleading.... And I gave some statistics there.

[Ziegfried]

OHNOES!!!!

Fellows, I have seen the error of my ways.

We MUST CRUSH FEMINISM!!!! It is clear to me that it is the single greatest threat ever in this world. Pregnant women in the military.... we CANNOT have that!!!!!

Check this out.... the whole blurb from the site,
"Pregnancy
Psst. Did you hear that the infamous PFC Lynndie R. England is pregnant? And so are thousands of less famous service women in all branches, especially the Army and Marines. Please tell me what�s going on in your outfit. I�ve been getting serious stonewalling from the PAO folks at the Pentagon. They treat pregnancy stats with a higher security classification then the number of nukes in their arsenals. Am told they have no stats on pregnancy and they suggest it is not a big problem. This is totally opposite of what hundreds of troops have reported to me. If you can get your hands on some hard stats for your unit, please send �em along. Have the stats for the 101st Airborne and 3d Mech and they�re mind boggling."
Strange how these 'females' can become 'pregnant.' Must be through some sort of cult ritual.... some kind of bloodletting once they enter this 'military.' Men, however, can handle it, WITH NO RISK OF BECOMING PREGNANT!!!! This, my friends, is it! No women in the military. This pregnancy disease must be stopped.



Yea, uh, ok.

So, who knew humans were sexual beings? 6 billion of us around... go figure. I like how that blurb didn't link to anything... just his email. He was asking other people for data.... yea, big item you found there! And what makes this source credible? In a court of law, you have to establish some crediblility... ever heard of the term 'expert witness?' Who is this guy? Anyone? Some 60 bitter Communist angry at everything America and women do? Some 80 year old senile person... posting things for fun? Don't think I'm going to be suckered into clicking on any of your other glorious links, until you show me something decent. A few pictures of a few women doing terrible things and you think you have won the world. No, there are men commiting those acts too, and on the whole, they are a drop in the bucket. And the Iraqi's do the same, if not, much worse. Oh, and the blurb, SHOCKING the Pentagon doesn't freely give away information. Oh hey, if I ever work there, I will have a public website, with clearly labelled directories: "D-Day Invasion Plans," "Nuclear Weapons Programs and their technology," "How the country can continue to survive in the face of ignoring all the threats jace is clearly warning us about that will inevitably cause the destruction of the world, if not the entire universe," etc etc. Then everyone can know all about everything... oh wait, you will just accuse people of hiding more things. Here's a bold statement, you sir, are paranoid. I could continue this rant for quite a while.... but I have things to do. If I didn't have things to do, I might even look for some 'statistics' to counter your arguments.

And yes, I have considered that I may be wrong. In fact, I admit it all the time. Not this time, however. Not yet, at least.

But I'd also like to point out you didn't say a thing about how I went on about how statistics can be misleading.... And I gave some statistics there.

Put that "horny over paragraphs" quote back in your signature.

[Ziegfried]

ps.Zieg I did read but you are not being open minded.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

[jace]

1 First people say nothing is wrong with women in the military, I show it�s not totally true since it is debatable. Some can not reply to the basic non hidden facts I presented and turn a blind eye. You know you are paying more in taxes, you know things costs more, you know divorce rates are high, you know are paying for women that get present in the military, standards in the military have to be dulled down so that women can do it, books have to present facts or else they will be categorized as non fiction, women in the military are distracting men in the military, etc. It�s all nice and well to see everything as good and equal but people have to see the reality that this does not work.

2 The sources were not biased, and for many biased means something that does not agree with them. I showed a site that one site got the info from which was a neutral source. Then you still complain but here is another one from someone that�s says she supports women in military but says its wrong how it is now. http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/dsp.cgi?msg=16609

3 to bring more to the table wont matter since many will not agree even though I gave many reasons. These arguments I presented come from people that know the issues far better than all of us here. What next you will put your head in the microwave since you do not want to listen to people that researched it and know it better? I disputed many arguments on the last post, and given you evidence you wanted and still you do not want to see it.

4 expert witness some say lol the women that wrote the book I presented knows the info and is an expert since that�s her job to research it, has a law degree, and the info she presented can not be biased since it has to be proven that her research is facts and not fiction or else. Many here think that the Da Vinci Code is non fiction but that is actually fiction. Books have to get proven before published. I do not understand how many think society works but it is scary how many think and distort truth information sometimes.

A link from random http://www.militarywoman.org/academic.htm (researched and validated information)This site supports you in a way. lol There are rules to follow when researching which I see many do not know them in what they say and just use colorful replies.

5 yes stats can be wrong but government stats do not go with the same stats as civilian stats since these are government records.

6 You do not have to look at stats if you don't believe it look at history from how it was and now. Which everyone can say an opinion but can not escape the there is more negative consequences than positive.

7 You �do not have to believe me�, you can look for yourself. Like I said before if you have 10 reasons why your arguments are good then show another 10 that goes against it. Look on GOOGLE and type the key words and you will find info against the arguments of women in the military.

8 No one could answer the last post about feminism and I disputed the arguments. The fact is no one wants to hear the other site even though it might be the truth. I deliver what you want but every time I answer you come up with another excuse and then ignore the past facts. Obviously many here will not change there view.

9 every time I dispute another excuse emerges so if you want to show you want the truth go fine information online or buy the book that I mentioned. Many are saying things of hot air with no substance, I may look impressive to some people that do not get it, and some see it as hot air. Show some substance then can talk again.

10 all I hear are opinions, opinions, opinions vs many facts. How many opinions equal 1 fact? The answer is zero, so 0 times 10 opinions = 0, but 10 facts times= 10 facts. Any math majors here? Next person should show a list of pos and cons about women in the military in what was presented and weight them. Have fun paying for higher taxes.

This reminds me of the Simpson�s when the dance teacher says to Lisa about equality in that if everyone was equal we would be communists. Lol This is boring next topic.

[Deach]

Who here thinks there should be a "forum idiot" rank?

[Jase]

Maybe they put wemon in the army so the breed with the males to make some sort of super soldier you never know

10 all I hear are opinions, opinions, opinions vs many facts. How many opinions equal 1 fact? The answer is zero, so 0 times 10 opinions = 0, but 10 facts times= 10 facts. Any math majors here? Next person should show a list of pos and cons about women in the military in what was presented and weight them. Have fun paying for higher taxes.

my facts lol well they seem to be one sided telll you what how bout you did up some of that but for us deal good its settled

8 No one could answer the last post about feminism and I disputed the arguments. The fact is no one wants to hear the other site even though it might be the truth. I deliver what you want but every time I answer you come up with another excuse and then ignore the past facts. Obviously many here will not change there view.

hate to tell you but i dont think many people would of read it
and Deach Yes i think that would be nice

[Deach]

I even made an avatar.

[Paul Miller]

jace, a friend of mine says (after reading the thread) :
"I don't have the ability post yet... but you should ask him if he even has an opinion of his own... he only seems to be able to acquire others opinions and use them as his..."

Do you have your own opinions?

And hey, I'd like to point out that I wasn't totally for women in the military. I said I didn't want women in the draft, but the willing ones can usually be beneficial. I consented that there are differences between the sexes, and that we should acount for them when applicable. However, I think not allowing women period is an exploitation of the difference in the sexes... there are women who are capable of handling the duties of the military. And they should be denied the oppurtunity to serve because they were born a female? Yes, there should be qualifications to get in, and those who fail, should not be allowed. The qualifications aren't going to get dumbed down so low that anyone can get in and do whatever they want.... there are still things that need to be done. It seems to me that the military would fall apart entirely if that were the case. Common sense. A military that consisted of non-working goofballs probably couldn't walk all over Iraq like we did. And while I don't have a website that says "OMG USA PWNT IRAQ with teh l33t hax!!!" or whatever, that should be obvious enough. Also, realize with the rise in technology, the physical demands become less and less important in the military, whereas technical demands are rising. And women can definitely handle the technical work.

As goes for tax money.... well, a lot of tax money is being wasted in a lot of places. Still one of the richest nations in the world. I'll take that as a blessing, let's not get too greedy now, shall we? Almost any system can get exploited, on a scale as large as this nation.

And history? You want to start a history discussion? Good show! WWII, I could talk for days.... too bad now is not the time.

[Xaenn]

And while I don't have a website that says "OMG USA PWNT IRAQ with teh l33t hax!!!" or whatever, that should be obvious enough.

Thank you for that.

[KnightofNachos]

Feminism is good and bad. It's good because people should obviously be treated as having the equal right to freedom/etc, but bad because the sexes are biologically designed to have different roles. The problem is that women who demand to be treated as equals also tend to desire to be treated differently.
I was raised in an "old-fashioned" manner and have all the mannerisms that men were required to do in the early 20th century. (I refuse to let women pay for items when I'm around them, open doors, lend them my coat if they're cold, etc)
Not once has a girl rejected the special treatment and wanted to be treated as "one of the guys". You can't have your cake and eat it to, or something.
I can say I'm against feminism in the manner in which I think men and women should have different ways to treat eachother.

Also, true feminism will not succeed for as long as a woman can show her breasts and make 10x the money she would have made if she had an honest occupation.

[MusikFreak00]

Ok, finally got back from work.

First people say nothing is wrong with women in the military, I show it�s not totally true since it is debatable. Some can not reply to the basic non hidden facts I presented and turn a blind eye. You know you are paying more in taxes, you know things costs more, you know divorce rates are high, you know are paying for women that get present in the military, standards in the military have to be dulled down so that women can do it, books have to present facts or else they will be categorized as non fiction, women in the military are distracting men in the military, etc. It�s all nice and well to see everything as good and equal but people have to see the reality that this does not work.

I take it you haven't served in the military. EVERYBODY GETS THE SAME PAY! Your paying for women to get pregnant, your also paying for guys to get women pregnant. Also, I have not seen a female pregnant soldier yet that just sat on her ass the whole time she was pregnant. They do their work until they are told by a doctor they can't. It's no different from any other job. Hell, by your logic, all federal employees should be male too since we pay for their paychecks with our taxes. Who gives a shit!

Second, your making it out to seem that females are not capable of handling the same jobs that men can handle. Or at least are distractions to the men in the military, not allowing them to do their jobs. I think thats bullshit. I work with several females in my unit, and not once does any one of our guys put any less than 100% into their job while they are around. Yeah, you may get the occasional gawking or whatever, but for the most part it's purely platonic.

Third, I personally don't put much word into anything I see put out by the media. Especially american media, due to the fact that it is all centered around getting an unbelievable story. That's all these people care about, is a controversial story. I personally go off of my experiences and those close to me. Even people that supposedly research these issues go in looking for something to prove their view. You can't deny that humans are opinionated bastards. We all are, you can't get a piece of information, whether it be statistics, or article, without the author's opinion getting away. Now, I am not saying that there are no valid points to your argument, but the facts don't represent all females in the military, overall. In fact, it's been my experience and the experience of many people I have met and work with, that they contribute more than they hinder.

So basically what I am saying is, you can pull out these statistics and shit, but more than likely, it has no relevance to what the real situation is.

edit: Also, your 'statistics' appear to be pretty old the armed forces have undergone a MAJOR overhaul in policies since the 80's. Keep up with the times man.

[Paul Miller]

Ok, finally got back from work.



I take it you haven't served in the military. EVERYBODY GETS THE SAME PAY! Your paying for women to get pregnant, your also paying for guys to get women pregnant. Also, I have not seen a female pregnant soldier yet that just sat on her ass the whole time she was pregnant. They do their work until they are told by a doctor they can't. It's no different from any other job. Hell, by your logic, all federal employees should be male too since we pay for their paychecks with our taxes. Who gives a shit!

Second, your making it out to seem that females are not capable of handling the same jobs that men can handle. Or at least are distractions to the men in the military, not allowing them to do their jobs. I think thats bullshit. I work with several females in my unit, and not once does any one of our guys put any less than 100% into their job while they are around. Yeah, you may get the occasional gawking or whatever, but for the most part it's purely platonic.

Third, I personally don't put much word into anything I see put out by the media. Especially american media, due to the fact that it is all centered around getting an unbelievable story. That's all these people care about, is a controversial story. I personally go off of my experiences and those close to me. Even people that supposedly research these issues go in looking for something to prove their view. You can't deny that humans are opinionated bastards. We all are, you can't get a piece of information, whether it be statistics, or article, without the author's opinion getting away. Now, I am not saying that there are no valid points to your argument, but the facts don't represent all females in the military, overall. In fact, it's been my experience and the experience of many people I have met and work with, that they contribute more than they hinder.

So basically what I am saying is, you can pull out these statistics and shit, but more than likely, it has no relevance to what the real situation is.

Oh yes. OH YES!

If I could give reputation to you, I would. But it seems I gave it to you already recently... so let me just say, that that post rocks hardcore. And I believe personal experience is evidence... and it clearly will hold up in a court of law.... speeding tickets and the like are just based on the observations of officers, not some statistics from some book. I'll call your experiences factual evidence, and evidence that I hold in greater esteem than some website that ONLY contains information favoring one side (Even less so, one asking for anonymous military personell to email him 'evidence.' Pfft.). Will jace listen to you and your observations? Maybe, maybe not. But, like I told him, for every one of his stories he's got where units have tons of pregnant women or whatever, we can find people where that is not the case, and you sir are a prime example.

[MusikFreak00]

Oh and one more thing, all of your dissent is based off of physical inadequacies of females to males. I agree that females have pitiful standards that they have to uphold. But most of these women feel this way too and exceed these standards by leaps and bounds. Just because they are physically weaker than men on average doesn't mean they are useless. They are doing a fine enough job just as they are.

oh and here's some links you can read too.

http://coelacanth.aug.com/captbarb/

http://www.mith2.umd.edu/WomensStudi...tary/factsheet

you know, for contributions that women have made so far to the military.

[MusikFreak00]

my computer must be slow at refreshing posts, thanks for the rep agent smith, its just how i see things

[Dingy]

I have too much to say on this issue. Am at school atm, so can't write, but I shall kick someone's ass tonight Don't keep your hopes high Skinner, you're not that lucky