View Poll Results: What religion do you follow?

Voters
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  • Christianity.

    31 30.69%
  • Judaism.

    1 0.99%
  • Islam.

    3 2.97%
  • Buddhism.

    3 2.97%
  • Paganism(Celtic religion).

    1 0.99%
  • Neo-Paganism.

    0 0%
  • Tao-ism.

    2 1.98%
  • Other(please state which).

    11 10.89%
  • I'm Atheist, no God for me.

    31 30.69%
  • I beleive in a God/supreme being, but I don't follow a specific religion.

    11 10.89%
  • I'm not sure.

    7 6.93%
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Thread: What religion do you beleive in?

  1. #196
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    Regarding all of this stuff about something being unable to be produced from nothing, I call attention to studies of black holes and spontaneous particle creation.
    From Evaporation of black holes and string theory
    ...the black holes emit particles and thermal " radiation ", with a temperature which depends only on their mass: the black hole is the more " hot " that it is not very massive. These particles are emitted in a zone right outside the horizon of the black hole (limit inside which nothing can escape). It is a quantum effect, based on the spontaneous creation of pairs of particle-antiparticles in the energy fluctuations of the vacuum.
    From A Panoramic Tour in Black Hole Physics
    An incidence wave can be reflected from the Kerr black hole [Rotating, as opposed to a Schwartzchild static black hole] with an amplitude larger that the origininal one. This is possible for the presence of the ergosphere. The energy is subtracted to the rotational energy of the black hole, which loses angular momentum until the process stops. Quantum-mechanically this phenomenon can be seen as particle creation (in the superradiant modes) by the black hole itself (stimulated emission).
    ...
    Hawking's effect (particle creation by black holes-1974)
    Quantum mechanical effects cause black holes to create and emit particles as if they were hot bodies with temperature
    [Equations excerpted]
    This thermal emission leads to a slow decrease in the mass of the black hole and eventually to its complete disappearance.
    ...
    Primordial black holes (formed after the big-bang) of mass about 10^15 g would evaporate by now by emitting X and gamma rays. In the last 10^-23 sec a primordial black hole explodes with the emission of 10^35 ergs of energy.
    I quoted that last paragraph regarding primordial black holes in particular, because, as I recall, it is not just primordial black holes, but also astronomical black holes formed by gravitational collapse that generate energy. More importantly, however, this helps explain in some part the extremely energetic state of the universe mere milliseconds after the Big Bang (Which is technically still only a theory - science makes no claim to actually know what happened before or during the Big Bang, and has formulated it, a flawed theory, though it is unfortunately often presented as fact because there is no real alternate idea for the formation of the universe beyond the deus ex machina of divine intervention).

    As well, there's also this article, Creation ex nihilo. Effectively, it looks at the simultaneous particle creation, gravity (Functioning as negative energy in effect), and a theoretical situation immediately after the Big Bang.

    I'd say more, but I want to avoid thinking too much after this last week.
    Last edited by Mistral; 2nd-May-2004 at 04:57.

  2. #197
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    Oh man, does that mean that mass is created? cuz E=mc2....

    Well a little more on topic I would say that the assumption free will with a God in existance is totally wrong. I will try to make my point as clear as possible. You see if God created us and he is omnipotent, then he has the ability to see the future. Then he created us, and he knew that we would choose to go to hell (he knows the future), there is no free will there, what is going to happen is already written in this gods mind. Anyway he would know that we would choose hell over heaven and he choose to make us anyway, knowing that we would forever suffer in eternity? Is that love? Can anyone please explain? I dont think there is a way to deny this...
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  3. #198
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    im a Catholic...

  4. #199
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    I am Southern Baptist.

  5. #200
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    Originally posted by Zephyr
    Regarding all of this stuff about something being unable to be produced from nothing, I call attention to studies of black holes and spontaneous particle creation.


    I quoted that last paragraph regarding primordial black holes in particular, because, as I recall, it is not just primordial black holes, but also astronomical black holes formed by gravitational collapse that generate energy. More importantly, however, this helps explain in some part the extremely energetic state of the universe mere milliseconds after the Big Bang (Which is technically still only a theory - science makes no claim to actually know what happened before or during the Big Bang, and has formulated it, a flawed theory, though it is unfortunately often presented as fact because there is no real alternate idea for the formation of the universe beyond the deus ex machina of divine intervention).

    As well, there's also this article, Creation ex nihilo. Effectively, it looks at the simultaneous particle creation, gravity (Functioning as negative energy in effect), and a theoretical situation immediately after the Big Bang.

    I'd say more, but I want to avoid thinking too much after this last week.
    I'm very thankful someone would finally explain this to me...thank you. However I'm not convinced. It speaks of particle creation, but that it was an effect of black holes. If there is a limited life span of the universe than how do these black holes come to be? There has to be some mass or "something" in order for there to be this energy of gravitation and attraction canceling eachother out. Therefore it still does not make sense to me.


    Well a little more on topic I would say that the assumption free will with a God in existance is totally wrong. I will try to make my point as clear as possible. You see if God created us and he is omnipotent, then he has the ability to see the future. Then he created us, and he knew that we would choose to go to hell (he knows the future), there is no free will there, what is going to happen is already written in this gods mind. Anyway he would know that we would choose hell over heaven and he choose to make us anyway, knowing that we would forever suffer in eternity? Is that love? Can anyone please explain? I dont think there is a way to deny this...


    How is he making us choose hell? There's one big flaw in that however. If one has free will than there is always a possibility for the future to change. And what if the "future" doesn't really exist as we have a common notion of it, so therefore this God might be able to know all of the actions that we will immediately make, but with free will we have the ability to choose otherwise. OK, not on that, but God gives us the knowledge we need to know in order to choose the path that we will. We can choose to ignore it or embrace it. God is not condemning anyone to hell but yet we ourselves are...

    Also I don't think it's necessarily EASY to go to hell (I don't really think about these things, but I'll try here). Given that catholics believe in purgatory, and basically is a chance to be cleansed of your sin before you are worthy of heaven. And you might spend so much time there depening on how bad you are, and only the truly evil perish to hell. (any catholics want to correct me?) And isn't it also believed that one can reach heaven based on merit alone? Yet faith is obviously the easiest.

    I don't know exactly what you are saying there but how is creating us and giving us the chance to spend eternity with him not love?

  6. #201
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    Originally posted by Xaenn
    I don't know exactly what you are saying there but how is creating us and giving us the chance to spend eternity with him not love?
    who would want to spend eternity with someone that is so full of themself that they require people to think he is great or be punished for eternity?

    (taking very puritan beliefs on heaven hell there)
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  7. #202
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    Originally posted by karragh
    who would want to spend eternity with someone that is so full of themself that they require people to think he is great or be punished for eternity?

    (taking very puritan beliefs on heaven hell there)
    Grrr....

    It's not a matter of us thinking he is great. (well, maybe it a SUPER simplified term) Well, I don't know what exactly hell is (nobody does) but to my understanding it's not some world of physical torture or anything of the like. I believe what it is, is total absense of God. Like there is no power to communicate with him or be redeemed by him. So I guess if you hated God it wouldn't really be a punishment.....

    I don't think that your work being acknowledged is arrogance (or reaching on merit, don't forget that). I think it is more that by rejecting God you are given an eternity to spend knowing what the absense of his presence really is....

    Damn, how about some Christians with a stronger faith than me butt in here?

  8. #203
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    Originally posted by Xaenn
    Grrr....

    It's not a matter of us thinking he is great. (well, maybe it a SUPER simplified term) Well, I don't know what exactly hell is (nobody does) but to my understanding it's not some world of physical torture or anything of the like. I believe what it is, is total absense of God. Like there is no power to communicate with him or be redeemed by him. So I guess if you hated God it wouldn't really be a punishment.....

    I don't think that your work being acknowledged is arrogance (or reaching on merit, don't forget that). I think it is more that by rejecting God you are given an eternity to spend knowing what the absense of his presence really is....

    Damn, how about some Christians with a stronger faith than me butt in here?
    so..... just because you don't believe in him, or think he is great, you are still condemed to here, what if you never had a chance, I can guarantee that alot of the members on this forum would be completly different religion and beliefs if born into a different situation.
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  9. #204
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    Originally posted by karragh
    so..... just because you don't believe in him, or think he is great, you are still condemed to here, what if you never had a chance, I can guarantee that alot of the members on this forum would be completly different religion and beliefs if born into a different situation.
    Yes, that's why some also believe you can get into heaven for being a good person. (or maybe purgatory and be cleansed). I also think it is pretty fucked up to think only someone who believes can go to heaven, and I don't think that's true. Although MANY christians would disagree with me.

  10. #205
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    Originally posted by Xaenn
    Yes, that's why some also believe you can get into heaven for being a good person. (or maybe purgatory and be cleansed). I also think it is pretty fucked up to think only someone who believes can go to heaven, and I don't think that's true. Although MANY christians would disagree with me.
    well seeing as how puritans, the most rapidly exact and pure to the religion chirstians there ever were, thought the only thing you were aloud to do for fun was ready the bible...... I don't think anyone today is going straight to heaven.
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  11. #206
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    Originally posted by karragh
    well seeing as how puritans, the most rapidly exact and pure to the religion chirstians there ever were, thought the only thing you were aloud to do for fun was ready the bible...... I don't think anyone today is going straight to heaven.
    Yeah, I think there's something just a bit off when you're life is like that. I don't believe it's as though you shouldn't enjoy anything. I just take it as part of a way you should live your life, but not necessarily any one thing or set of things you should do....yeah, something like that....Besides, who didn't want to spend some time being cleansed....

  12. #207
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    I don't think "just looking at the Bible as a guideline for a good life" can be called true christianity... There should be some actual belief to it, as well.

  13. #208
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    Originally posted by Skinner8
    I don't think "just looking at the Bible as a guideline for a good life" can be called true christianity... There should be some actual belief to it, as well.
    Well, if you read the bible and began acting in such a way as jesus preached would that not be faith?

    Edit: Stupid me. The point I was saying before was you didn't have to be Christian to go to heaven. duh. hahah too late, I need to sleep.

  14. #209
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    No, that'd be doing what Jesus said you should.

  15. #210
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    Damn you responded before I could make my edit.... Yes but why would you follow what he said unless you believed him?

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