Who do you want be the next president of the USA?

[Schutzstaffel]

I like the conspiracy theory much more than the logical one that just popped up.

[reagan80]

Originally posted by karragh
The only way you arn't gonig to have time to unlock it is if the robber has a gun aswell, And if they made guns illegal, the rober would be alot less likely to have a gun. Also most robers brake into the house quitly enough that unless you have a dog or some form of security, you are still going to be asleep with him having plenty of time to kill you, gun lock or not.



The second amendment was put into play in completly different times, times when people actually needed guns.

now adays any bloke can get a gun, says it's his right as an american citizen, than go to rob a store the next day.




That is perfectly on topic, remember what I said? The best way to argue against bush is to quote bush.

Outlawing the right of law-abiding civilians to bear arms will not prevent criminals from getting their hands on firearms. The criminals will just get cheap imports from Mexico. We all know how porous our southern border is...........just ask an illegal alien or a drug smuggler.

Besides self-defense, guns are useful in protecting the property of home/business owners during riots. Good luck getting a cop to answer your distress calls during a riot..........

If we banned civilians from having firearms, the government would have control of most of the weapons. Whoever has control of most of the weapons has most of the control over the people. Just ask Saddam, Hitler, and the Chinese government.

Many people in America fear John Ashcroft and the Patriot Act. If Ashcroft truly is the leader of the Gestapo, why would anyone want his secret police to have all of the guns? It just takes away the people's option to have a rebellion or revolution when peaceful methods fail to change governmental injustices. In order to avoid a future Holocaust or Tienanmen Square massacre, the right to bear arms must not be infringed.

NOTE: I don't believe Ashcroft is a Fascist. I support him at the moment. I don't believe the Patriot Act is intrusive to ordinary Americans. I think the Patriot Act is a temporary neccessary evil.

There's a better chance that if he's a criminal, he'll have a better gun than you, he'll be more experienced than you and that you'll be the one waking up in the hospital the next day.
Also umm...explain how if everyone is armed, it will reduce the danger of being shot??

What about the scenarios when the criminal is high on crack? The criminal might have poor aim or have sluggish responses(from the drugs) compared to an alert store clerk.

He is using the same logic as nuclear deterrence...........Since we have nuclear weapons, no major power screws with us. We don't screw with another nuclear power either. If criminals know you are armed, they'll probably avoid you.

If everyone were armed, wouldn't that create mass paranoia?

Another nuclear comparison............
No, it would make everyone wary of the MAD doctrine. If someone gets out of line and begins going on a public shooting rampage, the rest of the people nearby would use their guns on the killer like a posse.

[Fett aka hmm]

Originally posted by karragh
Once again people(namely Feta aka hmm) are ignoring my posts that they can't come up with arguements againts. I'm starting to get sick and tired of the cowards on this forum....

Im ignoring you, theres nothing to argu about in your recent posts. Lets look at them

Originally posted by karragh
King Of The Hill



duh.... what's the topic about agian?

No point in responding to that one.

Originally posted by karragh
Listen, just look at the statistics, in countries, like Japan for example, where Gun's are not legalized, there is a MUCH lower fatal crime rate, and that is a statistic that can't be argued.

You just said it cant be argued. Japan is frankly less violent now than we are, less drugs. and they probably also have less of a retard (not as in disabled) population than we do.

Originally posted by karragh
well then, you are being robbed by a group of people. duh.

Again no point in talking about it.

[reagan80]

Originally posted by karragh
Listen, just look at the statistics, in countries, like Japan for example, where Gun's are not legalized, there is a MUCH lower fatal crime rate, and that is a statistic that can't be argued.

Actually, their armed crime rate is supposed to be increasing.

They might not have a lower crime rate because of the anti-gun restrictions. It might be because.............

Japan -- Citizens have fewer protections of the right to privacy, and fewer rights for criminal suspects, than in America. Every person is the subject of a police dossier. Japanese police routinely search citizens at will and twice a year pay "home visits" to citizens` residences. Suspect confession rate is 95% and trial conviction rate is more than 99.9%. The Tokyo Bar Assn. has said that the Japanese police routinely engage in torture or illegal treatment. Even in cases where suspects claimed to have been tortured and their bodies bore the physical traces to back their claims, courts have still accepted their confessions. Amnesty International calls Japan`s police custody system "a flagrant violation of United Nations human rights principles." Suspects can be held and interrogated for 28 days without being brought before a judge, compared with no more than two days in many other nations. They aren`t allowed legal counsel during interrogation, when in custody may be visited by only criminal defense lawyers, are not allowed to read confessions before they sign them, and have no right to trial by jury. (Kopel, 1991, pp. 23-26.)

Maybe fear keeps the people in line over there...........Almost everyone in Israel owns a gun, but they don't have a high crime rate............Same goes for Switzerland.........http://www.asa-training.com/switzerland.html

I'm thinking about Kerry. Way too much money is put into military and not enough for the population.

And too many awful things have happened during Bush's presidency. I'm not saying that they are necessarily his fault, but that is what people will keep on bringing up. The economy went bad, war in Iraq, Spetember 11, etcetera etcetera.

If Gore would have won, 9/11 would have still happened. If Gore would have won, the economy would have still gone downhill. The only thing Gore would have done differently is Iraq.

One reason we have lousy human intelligence today is because of Kerry's post-Cold War policies of cutting CIA funding............

Quotes such as these will haunt him..............

1997: Kerry Questioned Growth Of Intelligence Community After Cold War. �Now
that that [Cold War] struggle is over, why is it that our vast intelligence
apparatus continues to grow even as Government resources for new and essential priorities fall far short of what is necessary? �� (Senator John Kerry Agreeing That Critic's Concerns Be Addressed, Congressional Record, 5/1/97, p. S3891

12 Days After 9/11: Kerry Questioned Quality Of Intelligence. �And the tragedy
is, at the moment, that the single most important weapon for the United States
of America is intelligence. � And we are weakest, frankly, in that particular
area. So it�s going to take us time to be able to build up here to do this
properly.� (CBS�s �Face The Nation,� 9/23/01)

Here's a link of his rap sheet...............http://bjcat0.tripod.com/kerryrecord.htm

[Fett aka hmm]

Originally posted by reagan80
Maybe fear keeps the people in line over there...........Almost everyone in Israel owns a gun, but they don't have a high crime rate............Same goes for Switzerland.........http://www.asa-training.com/switzerland.html

Most people in Israel are profficient in the use of firearms, most had to join the Army.

[EGGO]

Originally posted by reagan80
Actually, their armed crime rate is supposed to be increasing.

They might not have a lower crime rate because of the anti-gun restrictions. It might be because.............

Japan -- Citizens have fewer protections of the right to privacy, and fewer rights for criminal suspects, than in America. Every person is the subject of a police dossier. Japanese police routinely search citizens at will and twice a year pay "home visits" to citizens` residences. Suspect confession rate is 95% and trial conviction rate is more than 99.9%. The Tokyo Bar Assn. has said that the Japanese police routinely engage in torture or illegal treatment. Even in cases where suspects claimed to have been tortured and their bodies bore the physical traces to back their claims, courts have still accepted their confessions. Amnesty International calls Japan`s police custody system "a flagrant violation of United Nations human rights principles." Suspects can be held and interrogated for 28 days without being brought before a judge, compared with no more than two days in many other nations. They aren`t allowed legal counsel during interrogation, when in custody may be visited by only criminal defense lawyers, are not allowed to read confessions before they sign them, and have no right to trial by jury. (Kopel, 1991, pp. 23-26.)

Maybe fear keeps the people in line over there...........Almost everyone in Israel owns a gun, but they don't have a high crime rate............Same goes for Switzerland.........http://www.asa-training.com/switzerland.html

Or the presence of severe punishments will do the job. I'm pretty sure when I lived in Japan, nobody lived in fear or paranoia.

[Fett aka hmm]

Originally posted by reagan80
Japan -- Citizens have fewer protections of the right to privacy, and fewer rights for criminal suspects, than in America. Every person is the subject of a police dossier. Japanese police routinely search citizens at will and twice a year pay "home visits" to citizens` residences. Suspect confession rate is 95% and trial conviction rate is more than 99.9%. The Tokyo Bar Assn. has said that the Japanese police routinely engage in torture or illegal treatment. Even in cases where suspects claimed to have been tortured and their bodies bore the physical traces to back their claims, courts have still accepted their confessions. Amnesty International calls Japan`s police custody system "a flagrant violation of United Nations human rights principles." Suspects can be held and interrogated for 28 days without being brought before a judge, compared with no more than two days in many other nations. They aren`t allowed legal counsel during interrogation, when in custody may be visited by only criminal defense lawyers, are not allowed to read confessions before they sign them, and have no right to trial by jury. (Kopel, 1991, pp. 23-26.

Didnt we hold a guy for more than a year without seeing a lawyer or judge? I think it was under the patriot or something act. It was recent too.

[Soeru]

Well, Bush is the prez with the lowest IQ(I believe this has been proven), and he does a horrible job as a president. But an evil genius can also be a problem. No other choice but to vote for Kerry, at least he is a democrat. I don't know too much about him, but he seems charismatic. *laughs at his "public apology" for calling Bush and his people a bunch of crooks and liars*.
EDIT: Btw reagan80(or anyone else): You should read the Vanity Fair article titled "John Ashcroft's Patriot Games", or as my German pal likes to call him: "Arschecroft".
I did an essay yesterday for English class on him, comparing the situation in the US because of the patriot act to the mass hysteria during the days of the witch hunt(mainly cuz we just read "The Crucible", by Arthur Miller). If anyone wants to read it, let me know and Ill post it here.

[Fett aka hmm]

Originally posted by Soeru
Well, Bush is the prez with the lowest IQ(I believe this has been proven), and he does a horrible job as a president. But an evil genius can also be a problem. No other choice but to vote for Kerry, at least he is a democrat. I don't know too much about him, but he seems charismatic. *laughs at his "public apology" for calling Bush and his people a bunch of crooks and liars*.
EDIT: Btw reagan80(or anyone else): You should read the Vanity Fair article titled "John Ashcroft's Patriot Games", or as my German pal likes to call him: "Arschecroft".
I did an essay yesterday for English class on him, comparing the situation in the US because of the patriot act to the mass hysteria during the days of the witch hunt(mainly cuz we just read "The Crucible", by Arthur Miller). If anyone wants to read it, let me know and Ill post it here.

I wouldnt mind reading it. It doesnt take an incredibly bright person to be president. Clinton was really smart, but look at the piss poor job he did.

[Norgus]

/me staggers backward

18 whole people voted for George! ahh!

no, no that cant be it.. I must have been mistaken. *looks again*
ahh! no.. no... they were accidental votes that must be it.. yes. accidental thats gotta be the reason.

/me runs away laughing like a maniac

[karragh]

Originally posted by Fett aka hmm
Im ignoring you, theres nothing to argu about in your recent posts. Lets look at them





No point in responding to that one.





You just said it cant be argued. Japan is frankly less violent now than we are, less drugs. and they probably also have less of a retard (not as in disabled) population than we do.



Again no point in talking about it.

I know the first one was pointless, that was a conversation with someone else, the last one was a joke, as for the middle one, as I said, If someone beats you in an arguement It's polite to acknowledge it.

[karragh]

Originally posted by reagan80
Actually, their armed crime rate is supposed to be increasing.

Increasing, and it is still lower than other contries, just to put it in terms everyone can understand, if we have the number 50 staying at 50, right, you with me so far? then we have the number 1 increasing by 0.5 every 10 years.
after 100 years which is still higher? 50 is. I hope that math example was simple enough.

Originally posted by reagan80
Japan -- Citizens have fewer protections of the right to privacy, and fewer rights for criminal suspects, than in America. Every person is the subject of a police dossier. Japanese police routinely search citizens at will and twice a year pay "home visits" to citizens` residences. Suspect confession rate is 95% and trial conviction rate is more than 99.9%. The Tokyo Bar Assn. has said that the Japanese police routinely engage in torture or illegal treatment. Even in cases where suspects claimed to have been tortured and their bodies bore the physical traces to back their claims, courts have still accepted their confessions. Amnesty International calls Japan`s police custody system "a flagrant violation of United Nations human rights principles." Suspects can be held and interrogated for 28 days without being brought before a judge, compared with no more than two days in many other nations. They aren`t allowed legal counsel during interrogation, when in custody may be visited by only criminal defense lawyers, are not allowed to read confessions before they sign them, and have no right to trial by jury. (Kopel, 1991, pp. 23-26.)[/B]

What you are saying sounds to me like, inocent people are getting convicted alot because of an unfair court system, right?
Well if innocent people are getting convicted with criminals still running free, and it still has a lower crime rate, that says something.

[Soeru]

Here's my essay, Fett(or anyone else who wants to read it). Around 500 words long. Note: I rar'ed it since *.doc files are not valid filetypes. Btw, please don't plagerize my essay. ^^

[Dingy]

Orginally posted by reagan80
We didn't have to give them the money. We didn't have to protect them from the Soviets. We didn't have to give them their sovereignty back. If we didn't do any of those things, it wouldn't change the world's cliched rantings of the "imperialistic, Fascist American pigs" that I hear today anyway.

Absolutely right! I think you should pay deep attention to the refrain that you have so sarcastically pointed above�YOU DIDN�T HAVE TO Atleast you agree that America�s action in the past has well-earned it�s title as an �imperialistic, Fascist country� Good progress reagan from your uptight, rigid attitude, you have certainly shown signs of improvement!;p

Originally posted by reagan80
You're right............It wouldn't be a bad idea to overthrow the Castro regime. After seeing all of the Cuban "boat people" risking their lives to leave Cuba and come to the US, it would be a just cause to depose Castro in the name of humanitarianism. The Cubans wouldn't be victims of Castro anymore and the sanctions would end if we did that.

I NEVER implied or once said that it would be a good idea to invade Cuba, you seriously have a problem of making your own interpretations. Do you know why the poor �boat people� risked their lives to come to dear ol� sweet ol� America? They were used by the CIA in the secret army that America was developing to overthrow the Castro regime from within. .

Originally posted by reagan80
Bay of Pigs didn't make us warmongers. It's not like we used our troops in that effort. If the Bay of Pigs operation were successful, the Cubans would have liberated themselves, but Kennedy reneged on his support of the effort and they failed just as miserably as the 1991 Shiite and Kurdish uprisings in Iraq.

You are right, you didn�t use your own troops in the effort. According to you, the loss of American troops is a humanitarian loss, your govt. was quite conniving back then too, they had already arranged for the mass murder of all those �boat people� so they could get their economic rights back and could also shove democracy down another country�s throat.

Kennedy didn�t renege on anything except shitting in his undies that day, as I�ve already posted before, it was in 1962 when USSR sent pictures of the missile base they had developed in Cuba pointing at America�s ass that US �chickened out�, and fyi this was in retaliation to the missile base that the US had in Turkey.

Reagan, when I read what you post, I have to control the strongest urge of shaking you to maybe in some tiny, teeny-meeny, minute way to simply get you to see the slightest glimpse of the fact that you may be wrong. America instead of rushing to aid of the Shias and the Kurds, went home, and this was the prime reason of the mass killings of these insurgents in March of 1991. US feared that if the Shias succeeded, Iran�s position would get stronger. I have one word for this�SELFISH!

Originally posted by reagan80
I assume you are saying that America is dumb and stole most of the world's technology from those countries you listed. Americans invented the digital computer, microprocessor, pocket calculator, stealth aircraft, etc..........I could provide links if you like.........Yeah, we are "outsourcing" manufacturing jobs to those countries because they have cheaper labor or more efficient manufacturing. We could bring them back here if you like.

I said that labour and IT power is usually of non-US origin, I can back that up too�all the no. of American brains behind the making of the above listed technology were not in a majority. If you can find people who�ll do clean your shit for $2 an hour, go ahead�stop outsourcing! You�re rich, we�re poor, not your puppets! And reagan, why don�t you look under your ass�it might have �Made in China� stamped on it like almost every other American product.

Originally posted by reagan80
We aren't looking after the world? I thought we were helping the Iranians right after they had that earthquake hit recently.............or was it just a reconaissance trip to investigate Iranian oil infrastructure before we invade them?

No, I don�t think you were compelled to give assistance for the reconstruction of Bam, many countries declined to help Iran. The problem is, America is rich, do you know what the right to work is? It�s a living proof that your country is wealthy and when you give aid to another country, that country is eternally lost in a debt-trap created by the you-owe-me-a lot-machine�America!

Originally posted by reagan80
If Gore would have won, 9/11 would have still happened. If Gore would have won, the economy would have still gone downhill. The only thing Gore would have done differently is Iraq.

THE ONLY THING? I don�t know about you, reagan, but we humans see bush as the idiot that he is/portrays himself to be! You live in the US, you should know and understand the threat of living in a nuclear world, and if you are paying to the current world political scenario, you�d notice that Bush�s operations of freedom are not going to earn him respect but half the world filled with fanatics is probably sitting in their 3rd world caves planning on how to kick bush�s ass. That�s the thing about bush, he�s taken a great nation and thrown it into the hands of a rash and impulsive monster�himself.

Originally posted by reagan80
Ummm...........If you are in India, do you want Pakistan to have nukes? After hearing that their main nuclear scientist has sold weapons technology to rogue nations and terrorist sponsors, do you want Pakistan to have nukes? If you are a Hindu and fear Muslim extremists, do want the Iranians to have nukes?

First off, I am not a Hindu, neither am I a Muslim, I am an Indian and moreover I am a part of the human race. So, no, I wouldn�t discriminate on giving the right to a country to be attain nuclear capacity just because they are primarily Muslim in population. And all Pakistanis are not fanatics, some of our politicians may believe that, but I disagree, thank goodness, however, that these bigots are not in power over here.
Second, India has more Muslims (app. 102 million) than Pakistan (app. 98 million)�ironical, aint it? And no, these 102 m are not stuffed in Kashmir as you would like to believe.

Originally posted by reagan80
I understand that peace hasn't been restored yet. I understand you can't trust the Pakistanis. I understand that the Indian presence in Kashmir is like a "police action," but it is hypocritical to bash our "police action" in Iraq.
Kashmir is merely a protectorate like Iraq is today, but we will not be staying there permanently.

Indian presence in Kashmir is absolutely justified, and umm�KASHMIR IS A PART OF INDIA. This referendum that has been mentioned in that link is called the Instruments of Accession, a treaty signed by Maharaja Hari Singh(hindu) the ruler of Kashmir in 1947 with Nehru, a member of the Indian govt. He signed it because in Oct. 1947 Pakistani tribals aided by the Pakistani govt. attacked Kashmir and occupied a part of it called P(akistan)O(ccupied)K(ashmir), we went to war and the UN called for cease-fire, and we backed out, Pakistani military is still governing PoK. You decide for yourself who�s imposing their police action!

Originally posted by reagan80
If you live in China today, you still can't travel freely from town to town without a "hall pass." Chinese religious freedom? Does the Falun Gong crackdown in 1999 ring a bell?

Umm�the bells in my head tell me that since the anti-govt. protests in 1989, the govt. has followed a deliberate policy of encouraging the revival of religion as a safety valve for social discontent. Religions like Taoism, Buddhism and Christianity have built a worshipper base of some 100 million people! The Falun Gong was founded in 1992, and the crackdown was in response to the widespread demostration by the former in Beijing, to protest against defamation of the sect by state-run media.

Originally posted by reagan80
If the Iraqis want to be socialist, we won't stop them.

How about if they want to be communist?

Originally posted by Fett aka hmm
I wouldnt mind reading it. It doesnt take an incredibly bright person to be president. Clinton was really smart, but look at the piss poor job he did.

Atleast Clinton didn�t have half the world conspiring to see him crucified!

[Soeru]

Geez, Dingy... Im impressed. You must have studied international relationships/politics or something. If not, you should seriousley consider doing so. Whew! Definately the most interesting history class I have had since 10th grade. Well said, although you were a bit harsh on reagan.

Btw, if anyone happens to read my essay on J. Ashcroft, Id love to hear any comments before my teacher slaps a grade on it. *notices that noone gives a damn since there are 0 d/ls*