well, it's only a matter of time until someone else comes along and gets annoying like Ness.....
who wants to lock the hangout indefinitely? i think this would solve the trolling problems.
also: ima quote something i find very helpful in these situations:
http://jharbour.com/forum/index.php?...new#quickreply
[quote author=twobitcoder link=topic=2333.msg14639#msg14639 date=1343408051]
I've been accused of having a heavy hand on this forum when it comes to rude people. Let me share this article with you by Ernest W. Adams, author of hundreds of articles and books on game development. His point is directed at bad behavior in general, with an emphasis on how girls and women are treated in online games. Here is a poignant quote from the piece:
The Designer's Notebook: A Call to Arms for Decent Men
Ernest W. Adams
Normally I write for everybody, but this month's column is a call to arms, addressed to the reasonable, decent, but much too silent majority of male gamers and developers.
Guys, we have a problem. We are letting way too many boys get into adulthood without actually becoming men. We're seeing more and more adult males around who are not men. They're as old as men, but they have the mentality of nine-year-old boys. They're causing a lot of trouble, both in general and for the game industry specifically. We need to deal with this.
Why us?
Because it's our job to see to it that a boy becomes a man, and we are failing.
When we were little boys we all went through a stage when we said we hated girls. Girls had "cooties." They were silly and frilly and everything that a boy isn't supposed to be. We got into this stage at about age seven, and we left it again at maybe 10 or 11.
Then puberty hit and, if we were straight, we actively wanted the company of girls. We wanted to "go with" them, date them, and eventually we wanted to fall in love and live with one, maybe for the rest of our lives. That's the way heterosexual boys are supposed to mature, unless they become monks.
My point is, you're supposed to leave that phase of hating girls behind. Straight or gay, you're supposed to grow the hell up.
What might be temporarily tolerable in a boy when he's nine is pretty dam n ed ugly when he's fifteen and it's downright psychopathic when he's twenty. Instead of maturing into a man's role and a man's responsibilities, a lot of boys are stuck at the phase of hating girls and women. The boys continue to treat them like diseased subhumans right through adolescence and into adulthood.
Men are more powerful than women: financially, politically, and physically. What distinguishes a real man from a boy is that a man takes responsibility for his actions and does not abuse this power. If you don't treat women with courtesy and respect -- if you're still stuck in that "I hate girls" phase -- then no matter what age you are,
you are a boy and not entitled to the privileges of adulthood.
If you want to have some private little club for males only -- like keeping women out of your favorite shooter games -- you're not a man, you're an insecure little boy. A grown-up man has no problem being in the company of women. He
knows he's a man.
If you freak out when a girl or a woman beats you in a game, you're not a man, you're a nine-year-old boy. A man doesn't need to beat a woman to know he's a man. A man is strong enough to take defeat in a fair game
from anybody and move on.
If your masculinity depends on some imaginary superiority over women, then you don't actually have any. Manliness comes from within, and not at the expense of others.
And if you threaten or abuse women, verbally or physically,
you are not a man. You're a particularly nasty specimen of boy.
When this puerile mentality is combined with the physical strength and sexual aggressiveness of an older boy or an adult male, it goes beyond bad manners. It's threatening and anti-social, and if those boys are permitted to congregate together and support each other, it becomes actively dangerous. Yes, even online.
Of course, I don't mean all boys are like this. Most of them get out of the cootie phase quickly and grow up just fine. But far too many don't. If we don't do something about these permanent nine-year-olds pretty soon, they're going to start having boys of their own who will be just as bad if not worse, and life will not be worth living. Life is already not worth living on Xbox Live Chat.
In addition to the harm they do to women --
our mothers,
our sisters,
our daughters -- these full-grown juveniles harm us, too. A boy who refuses to grow up has lousy social skills, a short attention span, and a poor attitude to work. Furthermore,
all men -- that's you and me, bro -- get the blame for
their bad behavior. And we deserve it, because we've been sitting on our butts for too long. We let them be bullies online and get away with it.
Some of you might think it's sexist that I'm dumping this problem on us men. It isn't; it's just pragmatic.
Women can not solve this problem. A boy who hates girls and women simply isn't going to pay attention to a woman's opinion. The only people who can ensure that boys are taught, or if necessary forced, to grow up into men are other men.
Let's be clear about something else. This is not a political issue. This is not a subject for debate, any more than whether your son is allowed to swear at his mother or molest his sister is a subject for debate.
There is no "other point of view." The real-world analogy is not to social issues but to violent crime. Muggers don't get to have a point of view.
So how do we change things?
First,
we need to serve as positive examples. With the very little boys, we need to guide them gently but firmly out of the cootie phase. To the impressionable teenagers, we must demonstrate how a man behaves and how he doesn't. Be the change you want to see. Use your real name and your real picture online, to show that you are a man who stands behind his words. Of course, you can't prove your name is real, but it doesn't matter. If you consistently behave with integrity online, the message will get across.
Secondly,
we men need to stand up for courtesy and decency online. We can't just treat this as a problem for women (or blacks, or gays, or anybody else the juvenile bullies have in their sights). Tell them and their friends that their behavior is not acceptable, that real men don't agree with them, that they are in the minority. Say these words into your headset: "I'm disappointed in you. I thought you were a man, not a whiny, insecure little boy." Don't argue or engage with them. Never answer their questions or remarks, just repeat your disgust and disapproval. Assume the absolute moral superiority to which you are entitled over a bully or a criminal.
Finally, we need to put a stop to this behavior. It's time for us to force the permanent nine-year-olds to grow up or get out of our games and forums. It's not enough just to mute them. We need to build the infrastructure that precludes this kind of behavior entirely -- Club Penguin has already done it for children -- or failing that,
we have to make the bullies pay a price for their behavior. Appealing to their better nature won't work; bullies have none. We do not request, we do not debate, we demand and we punish.
I have some specific suggestions, from the least to the most extreme.
1.
Mockery. In 1993 50 Ku Klux Klansmen marched through Austin, Texas. Five thousand anti-Klan protestors turned up to jeer at them. Best of all, several hundred lined the parade route and mooned the Klan in waves. The media ate it up, and the Klan looked ridiculous. The hurt that they wanted to cause was met not with anger but with derision.
The juvenile delinquents are just like the Klan: anonymous in their high-tech bedsheets, and threatening, but in fact, a minority. Let's use our superior numbers and metaphorically moon the boys who can't behave. They're social inadequates, immature losers. Let's tell them so, loud and clear, in front of their friends.
2.
Shut them up. The right to speak in a public forum should be limited to those who don't abuse it. James Portnow suggested this one in his Extra Credits video on harassment. Anyone who persistently abuses others gets automatically muted to all players. The only players who can hear them are those who choose to unmute them. Or another of James' suggestions: New users don't even get the right to talk. They have to earn it, and they keep it only so long as they behave themselves. This means a player can't just create a new account to start spewing filth again if they've been auto-muted. Build these features into your games.
3.
Take away their means. If you're the father of a boy who behaves like this online, make it abundantly clear to him that it is unmanly and unacceptable, then deny him the opportunity to do it further. We don't let nine-year-olds misuse tools to hurt other people. Take away his cell phone, his console and his computer. He can learn to behave like a man, or he can turn in his homework in longhand like a child.
4.
Anonymity is a privilege, not a right. Anonymity is a double-edged sword. A limited number of people need it in certain circumstances: children, crime victims, whistleblowers, people discussing their medical conditions, political dissidents in repressive regimes. But those people normally don't misuse their anonymity to abuse others; they're protecting themselves from abuse.
I think the default setting in all online forums that are not intended for people at risk should require real names. After a user has demonstrated that they are a grown-up, then offer them the privilege of using a pseudonym. And take it away forever if they misuse it. I haven't used a nickname for years except in one place where all the readers know who I am anyway. Has it made me more careful about what I say? You bet. Is that a good thing? **** right it is.
5.
Impose punishments that are genuinely painful. This suggestion is extreme, but I feel it's both viable and effective. To play subscription-based or pay-as-you-go ("free-to-play-but-not-really") games, most players need to register a credit card with the game's provider. Include a condition in the terms of service that entitles the provider to levy extra charges for bad behavior. Charge $5 for the first infraction and double it for each subsequent one. This isn't all that unusual; if you smoke in a non-smoking hotel room, you are typically subject to a whopping extra charge for being a jerk.
Now I'm going to address some objections from the very juvenile delinquents I've been talking about -- if any of them have read this far.
"What's the big deal? It's harmless banter. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the game." To start with, it's our game, not yours, and we get to decide what's acceptable behavior. You meet our standards or you get out. Apart from that, nothing that is done with intent to cause hurt is harmless. The online abuse I have seen goes way beyond banter. Threats are not harmless, they are criminal acts.
"But this is part of gamer culture! It's always been like this!" No, it is not. I've been gaming for over 40 years, and it has not always been like this. Yours is a nasty little subculture that arrived with anonymous online gaming, and we're going to wipe it out.
"This is just political correctness." Invoking "political correctness" is nothing but code for "I wanna be an a-hole and get away with it." I'll give you a politically-incorrect response, if you like: **** that. It's time to man up. You don't get to be an a-hole and get away with it.
"You're just being a White Knight and trying to suck up to women." I don't need to suck up to women, thanks; unlike you, I don't have a problem with them, because I'm a grown man.
"Women are always getting special privileges." Freedom from bullying is a right, not a privilege, and anyway, that's bullsh it. Males are the dominant sex in almost every single activity on the planet. The only areas that we do not rule are dirty, underpaid jobs like nursing and teaching. Do you want to swap? I didn't think so.
"It's hypocrisy. How come they get women-only clubs and we don't get men-only clubs?" Because they're set up for different reasons, that's why. Male-only spaces are about excluding women from power, and making little boys whose balls evidently haven't dropped feel special. Female-only spaces are about creating a place where they are safe from vermin.
"But there's misandry too!" Oh, and that entitles you to be a running sore on the ass of the game community? Two wrongs don't make a right.. I'll worry about misandry when large numbers of male players are being hounded out of games with abuse and threats of violence. If a few women are bigoted against men, you only have to look in the mirror to find out why.
"Free speech!" The oldest and worst excuse for being a jerk there is. First, you have no right to free speech in privately-owned spaces. Zero. Our house, our rules. Second, with freedom comes the responsibility not to abuse it. People who won't use their freedoms responsibly get them taken away. And if you don't clean up your act, that will be you.
OK, back to the real men for a few final words.
This is not about "protecting women." It's about cleaning out the sewers that our games have become. This will not be easy and it will not be fun. Standing up to these little jerks will require the same courage from us that women like Anita Sarkeesian have already shown. We will become objects of hatred, ridicule, and contempt. Our manhood will be questioned. But if we remember who we are and stand strong together, we can beat them. In any case we won't be threatened with sexual violence the way women are. We have it easier than they do.
It's time to stand up. If you're a writer, blogger, or forum moderator, please write your own piece spreading the message, or at least link to this one. I also encourage you to visit
Gamers Against Bigotry, sign the pledge, are share it.
Use your heavy man's hand in the online spaces where you go -- and
especially the ones you control -- to demand courtesy and punish abuse. Don't just mute them. Report them, block them, ban them, use every weapon you have. (They may try to report
us in return. That won't work. If you always behave with integrity, it will be clear who's in the right.)
Let's stand shoulder-to-shoulder with the women we love, and work with, and game with, and say, "We're with you. And we're going to win."
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Creative Commons License
A Call to Arms for Decent Men by Ernest W. Adams is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported License
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Originally Posted by Jackhammer
Reminds me of an SoR thread by Vamp. Post in this thread and have your account deleted.
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