E3 2013 General Discussion

[crusher]

Ah, well in that case I guess Chico isn't dying,
Looks like I need to re-watch that particular scene - I think I was so focused on how realistic the intestines were I didn't look too closely at the characters. Love you Crusher - you're like my second set of Metal Gear eyes

Dude, get the hell out, I'm your primary eyes!

[Cosmic]

And that's the whole deal. I don't think in Gen5, any AAA title developer felt that they should change what they have made to make it more like a certain other game.

I know you made a massive post and I'm probably being pedantic by quoting one specific sentence, but this really isn't true at all. Whenever a big game comes along there are always publishers who demand similar games from their developers. It's the way the industry has worked since... well, ever. After Doom proved popular you couldn't move for first person shooters on the PC. Consoles got their Tomb Raider clones, then when Metal Gear Solid was released I remember publishers crapping themselves and every other game getting stealth sections awkwardly shoehorned into it. And that's just the mid to late 90s. Before that? Mario/Sonic clones, Street Fighter rip-offs, and if you want go back even further, Space Invaders. Or Asteroids. Or every third machine you came across in an early 80s arcade.

Copying what's popular definitely isn't something unique to this generation or even just video games. At all.

[gezegond]

@Cosmic: I meant AAA games that were already in production, like Conviction. It's one thing to copy a game, it's another thing to demolish what you already have to make it like something else. I think in Gen7, it was Conviction and two other games that turned out completely different from what they first appeared to be. I don't remember anything like that in Gen5. Though I didn't follow game news and previews as much (or at all) back then, so I might have just missed them.

You haven't read my previous posts, I said before that I don't mean to say Gen5 was absolutely perfect. Of course it had shit games, lots of them. And lots of clones. But compared to Gen7 I believe there was more innovation.

[FlavaFlave]

@Cosmic: I meant AAA games that were already in production, like Conviction. It's one thing to copy a game, it's another thing to demolish what you already have to make it like something else. I think in Gen7, it was Conviction and two other games that turned out completely different from what they first appeared to be.

Games have been getting scrapped and reworked throughout many generations. Just look at RARE for example - Conker turned out way different, Dinosaur Planet turned into Star Fox, Jet Force Gemini turned out way different.... the list goes on and on.

I don't remember anything like that in Gen5. Though I didn't follow game news and previews as much (or at all) back then, so I might have just missed them.

This pretty much sums it up - you didn't follow the news much back then, so don't try to say it just started happening recently or something. You'd think in that big history lesson you posted earlier you would have looked some of these things up to defend your points more, but whatever.

None of this belongs in the E3 thread anyway, and I'm not even sure how this got started.

[Cosmic]

@Cosmic: I meant AAA games that were already in production, like Conviction. It's one thing to copy a game, it's another thing to demolish what you already have to make it like something else. I think in Gen7, it was Conviction and two other games that turned out completely different from what they first appeared to be. I don't remember anything like that in Gen5. Though I didn't follow game news and previews as much (or at all) back then, so I might have just missed them.

You haven't read my previous posts, I said before that I don't mean to say Gen5 was absolutely perfect. Of course it had shit games, lots of them. And lots of clones. But compared to Gen7 I believe there was more innovation.

I did read your previous posts but wanted to to focus on that sentence because I felt it conveyed the main point you were making. I deliberately mentioned Metal Gear Sold because the entire Splinter Cell series is actually one of the more blatant examples. The first game started as an RTS but was totally reworked into a stealth game because MGS was so successful. They didn't just take elements of it. They scrapped what they already had and turned it into something completely different because that's where the money was.

Quake turned out the way it did because Doom did so well and id Software were conflicted as to what they should do next. If I remember correctly John Romero's original plan (which actually predated Doom) was a side scrolling RPG/fantasy title, but John Carmack hated the fantasy aspects and wanted to build on what they'd done with Doom. Neither of them could agree on it and eventually what we got was an awesome but disjointed FPS that had you running through military complexes on one level and fighting Lovecraftian monsters in a gothic castle on the next.

Or Halo. That was an RTS that was reworked into a third person action game until Microsoft bought Bungie and, knowing how successful FPS games were on PC, decided the Xbox should launch with one.

So yeah, I probably could have been clearer in my first post, but those three games are all AAA titles that started life in Gen 5 or earlier and changed drastically during development.

[Raype]

So I was actually going to post something while trying to make sense of what geze was trying to say. Which appears to be that PC was always more innovative (which for the record is true, but we're talking about consoles here) and how this one generation doesn't have as much going on as the last 6 combined (which is all kinds of silly).

Then I hit this:

Gen7 absolutely shit with not a single good game or innovation.

And immediately stopped.

You are a poopy pants and my time would be better spent talking to a cabbage.

Holy crap at that intestine digging! Just read that Kojima confirmed on his podcast that it's Paz on the table. What are the odds of her surviving that?

Paz dies and the world erupts in war.

Real subtle Kojima.

(PS: You are making me forget about MGS4 sir. I will purchase 1 x copy of whatever you're selling. )

[Nemkoon]

And immediately stopped.

You are a poopy pants and my time would be better spent talking to a cabbage.

Here you go. Talk to it
Cabbage.jpg

[FlavaFlave]

And immediately stopped.

You are a poopy pants and my time would be better spent talking to a cabbage.

(PS: You are making me forget about MGS4 sir. I will purchase 1 x copy of whatever you're selling. )

Man, I never realized MGS4 was so polarizing..... I don't just mean this site, but it seems there are a ton of people that hate on this game. Why? What did it do so wrong? I thought it was great - not the best MGS game, but I thought it was damn good.

[Raype]

Man, I never realized MGS4 was so polarizing..... I don't just mean this site, but it seems there are a ton of people that hate on this game. Why? What did it do so wrong? I thought it was great - not the best MGS game, but I thought it was damn good.

Modern MGS setting (which was sliding pretty hard downhill ever since partway through MGS2)
Nanomachines.
Overabundance of Fanservice/Fandisservice that didn't seem to go anywhere
Too much time sent self referencing
THE. GODDAMNED. UBER INTRUSIVE. PLOT.
Characters that seem hilariously OOC (Snake being the most glaring if you go straight from MGS2 to MGS4)
The overall MGS plot with all the BIG REVEALS feeling stupid and trying way too hard to please fans (from where I'm sitting).

And, honestly, I just really really didn't like it. That's about all I can say for a lot of it. I just really didn't have any fun with it and I found it grating. Don't get me wrong, the Octocamo stuff was awesome tech, the game looks great, the gameplay itself is pretty spectacular and the boss fights are among some of my favourites period (Dat Octopus. Dat Ocelot).

But I just really, really, cannot make myself like the plot. And this being MGS they have to go together. So we're stuck with a great game that we can't play much of because instead we're shouldered with a huge bloated plot that I just don't like that doesn't seem to really be trying to go anywhere. Hell it even stops full on for 1/5 of the game just so it can revisit MGS1. For no reason other than to revisit MGS1. It's like MGS4 is trying so hard to be great but it just has this massive anchor around its neck. Then the realization that skipping the cutscenes results in a campaign that you can easily finish in one sitting leaves you feeling displeased with the whole ordeal.

At least (from the look of things) the gameplay/story balance may be swinging back a bit more toward the former which means that at least there *might* be more "game" there and a bit less cutscene to wade through for it. Which works out pretty well for me.

[FlavaFlave]

Fair enough! I was telling Gypsy that for me the game really ended after Chapter 3 when the Patriots were revealed. Story-wise I didn't care after that point, but I thought the gameplay mechanics were fantastic.

[Ragnar]

So MS is killing off MS Points and replacing them with a currency system:
http://www.joystiq.com/2013/06/10/mi...t-on-xbox-one/

They put up a FAQ:
http://support.xbox.com/en-US/billin...nts-retire-faq

Basically they'll just exchange your existing stockpile of points, and then do this:

However, the funds we deposit into your account at the time of the transition will expire one year from the deposit date.

So, everyone with stockpiled MS points needs to blow them. Because they'll evaporate in year Virtual currency is stupid...

[garrendesares]

well that answers my question about microsoft funds, i will just wait till they transfer over and see what i can blow them on. already got tales of vesperia. how much would 1220 be in local us currency? i forget.

[cdoublejj]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned this.

As a PC gamer I ended up getting the wii when it came out, 1 main reason was for homebrew. that said i'm considering the Wii specially if it's under 400 USD. Homebrew would also be a big plus for me as well. that and some the exclusives. it also looks like good fun if friends come over.

[Cookie Monster]

So MS is killing off MS Points and replacing them with a currency system:
http://www.joystiq.com/2013/06/10/mi...t-on-xbox-one/

They put up a FAQ:
http://support.xbox.com/en-US/billin...nts-retire-faq

Basically they'll just exchange your existing stockpile of points, and then do this:


So, everyone with stockpiled MS points needs to blow them. Because they'll evaporate in year Virtual currency is stupid...

More like M$ is stupid, right?

[Gypsy]

Yeah Cookie for sure, they could just has easily not went full retard. Why make the converted funds disappear? Oh to be assholes? Carry on then.