EU Court of Justice Rules Digital Resale Bans Illegal

[Gypsy]

Well if we are ONLY talking about NEW PC copies then yes Steam is very good. I mostly console game though as long as the console is an option for the game and it's not something like Skyrim which imo is meant to be played on PC.

[Ragnar]

But you can't play simultaneously! And it's also a different platform. It's more fair to compare it to the downloadable version on the PSN store (if there is one) which most likely never goes on sale. My younger brother paid $20 for the downloadable one on the 360 and I sighed profusely.

Donno about PSN, as the 360 is the only system I've connected to the net. But I've bought a bunch of MS Points from retail stores at half off. Also I try to wait for stuff to go on sale on XBLA too, usually getting my stuff for ~75% less than MS's asking price

"You shouldn't really make fun of people for using digital distribution, it's as good as/better than buying boxed copies in some cases."

Indeed.

[Mr. Nemo]

Off-topic for sure, but I'm interested where Colamisu pulled that $20,000 number. I can print at least 3,000 physical copies of an actual card game for that price. There is no way it costs that much to start burning discs, especially since an small business will probably do it in house instead of contacting a manufacturer. Other than that, there is a lot of projecting for people who want the physical copy that it's humorous. Just the notion of wanting it physical because it doesn't go away and using Online-Only DRM as the example is a straw man tactic. Games rarely used DRM that was intrusive until 2000, and even then, it was usually a cd-key and Securom. The online-only or online activate DRM is the equivalent of online distribution since it negates the majority of reasons to buy a physical disk.

I too hope this ruling makes it way to the U.S. since a lot of the bullshit these companies are doing shouldn't be allowed, but people are voting with their wallets that it is cool to screw over their fanbase. I'll stick to telling people to get off my lawn and buy games when I think it's priced reasonably.

[Slacker Magician]

Off-topic for sure, but I'm interested where Colamisu pulled that $20,000 number. I can print at least 3,000 physical copies of an actual card game for that price. There is no way it costs that much to start burning discs, especially since an small business will probably do it in house instead of contacting a manufacturer. Other than that, there is a lot of projecting for people who want the physical copy that it's humorous. Just the notion of wanting it physical because it doesn't go away and using Online-Only DRM as the example is a straw man tactic. Games rarely used DRM that was intrusive until 2000, and even then, it was usually a cd-key and Securom. The online-only or online activate DRM is the equivalent of online distribution since it negates the majority of reasons to buy a physical disk.

I too hope this ruling makes it way to the U.S. since a lot of the bullshit these companies are doing shouldn't be allowed, but people are voting with their wallets that it is cool to screw over their fanbase. I'll stick to telling people to get off my lawn and buy games when I think it's priced reasonably.

In the case of online activation: I just don't want Steam on my computer, simple as that. If I need constant internet access to play, I won't buy the game.

A disc publisher runs in the $500 - $6000 range, 10k DVDs in bulk would be around $4,000.

[Colamisu]

Off-topic for sure, but I'm interested where Colamisu pulled that $20,000 number. I can print at least 3,000 physical copies of an actual card game for that price. There is no way it costs that much to start burning discs, especially since an small business will probably do it in house instead of contacting a manufacturer.

I pulled the number from my ass, to be perfectly honest. It wasn't intended to be at all accurate, simply for illustration. But you can't do professional disc manufacturing in-house like you can with game cards. Disc pressing requires a separate machine, which requires space and electricity and raw materials. It's not a matter of simply buying a few spindles of CD-R's and spending the weekend with your computer's burner. Playing cards, on the other hand, can be made with most laser printers on store-bought cardstock.

Other than that, there is a lot of projecting for people who want the physical copy that it's humorous.

I do find wanting a physical copy simply on principle to be humorous.

Just the notion of wanting it physical because it doesn't go away and using Online-Only DRM as the example is a straw man tactic. Games rarely used DRM that was intrusive until 2000, and even then, it was usually a cd-key and Securom.

Thank you for identifying my informal fallacy? But really, what good is the physical copy if it's unplayable? Most DRM nowadays uses some sort of online activation that would render the game as unplayable in perpetuity as a digital copy of the same game, making the perceived permanence of physical copies self-deception at best. Online-only was simply one example of these DRM strategies. And I don't see how mentioning CD keys and SecuROM change that. SecuROM activations are maintained by a server. If that server were to go down, would the game assume that there are activations remaining or that there are not? I haven't thoroughly researched this at all, so I don't know.

As an aside, you have noooo idea if you think that DRM wasn't intrusive until 2000. Computer games in the late 80s and early 90s tended to have absurd things like "Before you can play, what is the sixth word of the fourth paragraph on page 27?" Other games were unplayable without the manual simply because control of the game was so arcane. Sure, it was before the term DRM was coined, but it was intrusive DRM.

The online-only or online activate DRM is the equivalent of online distribution since it negates the majority of reasons to buy a physical disk.

Which is a major point I was trying to make. See above, "Most DRM nowadays" sentence.

[Slacker Magician]

I pulled the number from my ass, to be perfectly honest. It wasn't intended to be at all accurate, simply for illustration. But you can't do professional disc manufacturing in-house like you can with game cards. Disc pressing requires a separate machine, which requires space and electricity and raw materials. It's not a matter of simply buying a few spindles of CD-R's and spending the weekend with your computer's burner. Playing cards, on the other hand, can be made with most laser printers on store-bought cardstock.

They could use a disc publisher instead of opting for pressed discs. As for the whole humorous to want something thing, it's about wanting something you can touch and see, I won't waste my time trying to explain it. Games with CD keys only do key checks for multiplayer, and Securom was a disc check unrelated to the internet, last I knew.

[Colamisu]

Games with CD keys only do key checks for multiplayer, and Securom was a disc check unrelated to the internet, last I knew.

Yeah, usually. Aside from games in the past few years, that's definitely true. And SecuROM is an entire range of tools for DRM and such. At the most basic level, yes, it just checks to see if the disc is legitimate. They also do online activations where you can install the software on x number of computers before it tells you that you've used it too many times, which is the one that people bitch and moan about all the time.

[Mr. Nemo]

Yeah, usually. Aside from games in the past few years, that's definitely true. And SecuROM is an entire range of tools for DRM and such. At the most basic level, yes, it just checks to see if the disc is legitimate. They also do online activations where you can install the software on x number of computers before it tells you that you've used it too many times, which is the one that people bitch and moan about all the time.

Securom v1-4 never did that. Ever. I understand what you mean though.