Anonymous vs. Scientology

[Evans]

I've stopped partaking in discussions, but...

Everything is caused by bad memories and space ghosts. The only way to cure it is to audit. Yup, you don't have cancer, you just THINK you do. So don't go to the doctor, just audit until you get better! Or die, whichever comes first! Relax though, you'll be reincarnated a long long time ago in a galaxy far, far away! Hooray for non linear time!

Frankly, if people are stupid enough to let themselves die because a moron (regardless of his motivation, good or bad) told them to, I don't give a fuck.

Oh, and before you point out that their religion has a right to choose or what not, the FOUNDER of the religion was on SEVERAL different prescription meds. He even had some in his system when he finally keeled over. How hypocritical to deny others medical treatment when you yourself are downing meds.

Fitting, no? Sure, it makes him a hypocrite to you, but to the feeble-minded, it's proof that he was right.

See, the whole thing, as usual, revolves around stupidity. Scientology wouldn't be what it is if people were smart enough not to fall for it. Seeing as it isn't so, stuff happened. Didn't really bother clicking links to read more garbage, I've had quite enough within this very thread to fulfill my needs. If a bunch of people feel like they can make a difference, good for them. Hopefully, it's ends up helping a handful of retards open their eyes just enough to quit the idea. Evidently, said retards will soon fall for something equally dumb, but whatever. The CoS is our flavor du jour, so let's go with it.

I'd tackle Anonymous, but, let's face, no one gives a fuck about kids with keyboards, and I sure as hell won't be the black sheep on this one.
Heh, sheep...

EDIT: Almost forgot about P_H... My God, you need to shut the hell up about Bush. You keep referencing to him as though it gave any substance to your arguments or opinions. Dude, use facts and logic, not your own little self-fueled hatred towards someone who isn't even fucking related to the topic in question. It's like Godwin's, but sad.

[Anonymous]

I can't wait for someone to take over for Bush, just so Paladin finally shuts up.

[Raype]

Frankly, if people are stupid enough to let themselves die because a moron (regardless of his motivation, good or bad) told them to, I don't give a fuck.

But some people do. Also the fact that scientology preaches this sort of thing reflects somewhat negatively on their faith.

At the very least, it's one of several contributing factors to all the sci-hate.

Fitting, no? Sure, it makes him a hypocrite to you, but to the feeble-minded, it's proof that he was right.

He was 74 and died of a stroke. Not exactly an unusual situation

Also, the "feeble minded" believe he's still alive.

Even though his heart broke and killed him.
And even though they threw every piece into a fire.
He's doing scientology and he's still alive.
Heck even when we're dead he'll be still alive.

What was I saying again?

Something about thetans...

[SegNin]

Something about thetans...

"When a person dies – or, in Scientology terms, when a thetan abandons its physical body – they go to a "landing station" on the planet Venus, where the thetan is re-implanted and told lies about its past life and its next life. The Venusians take the thetan, "capsule" it, and send it back to Earth to be dumped into the ocean off the coast of California. Says Hubbard, "If you can get out of that, and through that, and wander around through the cities and find some girl who looks like she is going to get married or have a baby or something like that, you're all set. And if you can find the maternity ward to a hospital or something, you're OK. And you just eventually just pick up a baby." To avoid these inconveniences, Hubbard advised Scientologists to refuse to go to Venus after their death."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thetan

Wtf? People actually believe this shit?

This nonsense wouldn't even make a decent plot point for a movie or book.

But it's good enough to be the crux of a so-called religion?

...landing station on Venus, indeed...yeesh...

[J]

"When a person dies – or, in Scientology terms, when a thetan abandons its physical body – they go to a "landing station" on the planet Venus, where the thetan is re-implanted and told lies about its past life and its next life. The Venusians take the thetan, "capsule" it, and send it back to Earth to be dumped into the ocean off the coast of California. Says Hubbard, "If you can get out of that, and through that, and wander around through the cities and find some girl who looks like she is going to get married or have a baby or something like that, you're all set. And if you can find the maternity ward to a hospital or something, you're OK. And you just eventually just pick up a baby." To avoid these inconveniences, Hubbard advised Scientologists to refuse to go to Venus after their death."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thetan

Wtf? People actually believe this shit?

This nonsense wouldn't even make a decent plot point for a movie or book.

But it's good enough to be the crux of a so-called religion?

...landing station on Venus, indeed...yeesh...

It proves that in fact, humanity is stupid enough to believe whatever is thrown at them.

Where's natural selection when you need it?

[Evans]

It proves that in fact, humanity is stupid enough to believe whatever is thrown at them.

Where's natural selection when you need it?

It's taking place, but Anonymous opposes it.

[Cosmic]

Errm, first off, I've addressed the arguements brought forward. I haven't denied that there is merit to some of them. BUT, I've pointed out that quite a few of these things have been prosecuted, and the perps brought to justice (see: Operation Snowflake and Freakout). What I've been trying to get at is this: Why the hell are you all supporting a vigilante group and trying to use crimes (that have been prosecuted and perps jailed)? Your basically approving of hacking, vigilantism (why don't you just support G. Bush why your at it?), and all sorts of illegal matters. Your also blindly following this group who's harmed (posting credit card information, Social Security numbers, home addresses, phone numbers) people who aren't even connected to Scientology!

Hey, your basically no different than the CoS! Your "anonymous" is committing many of the same crimes CoS has, save murder (for now, death threats have been sent out by anonymous and its fan-base).

And finally, these scandals you've been talking about (actually this is a repeat of what I've been saying), HAVE BEEN DEALT WITH BY AUTHORITIES. Why fight whats been tried, sentenced, and imprisoned?

The CoS denies every single one of those incidents. Operation Snow White? Didn't happen. Operation Freakout? No idea what you're talking about. Lisa McPherson? Oh crap, it's 2008. Time to change our story again! The people who join the church and don't do their research beforehand are usually so brainwashed by the time this information comes out that they'll believe whatever the church tells them. Never mind that there are government records proving this stuff, it's all clearly a conspiracy against L. Ron Hubbard and his revolutionary tech!

There's also the fact that Fair Game is still in effect. Sure, there's a church document claiming the policy was revoked in 1968 but there are reports from ex-Scientologists who claim it was unofficially in place as recently as the mid 90s, and you only have to watch footage on websites such as XenuTV to see it still goes on today. Just look at all the crap they've tried to pin on people like Arnie Lerma. Hell, watch the BBC's "Scientology and Me" episode of Panorama. The reporter, John Sweeney, was stalked and harrassed by church members throughout his report. At one point he was talking to an ex-Scientologist who among other things explained how the CoS put posters up all over the town to advertise the fact that he was gay. But wait, it gets better! As they were talking, Tommy Davis and other various members of the church showed up in a car, asked the reporter why he was conversing with a "criminal", pulled out a sheet of paper and went through a list of the guy's "crimes". No-one invited or informed them about the interview. They just showed up and interrupted the conversation! If that's not even remotely creepy to you then I don't know what to say. Towards the end of the programme Sweeney came back to England and spoke to protestors outside the London Church of Scientology. The CoS claimed the protestors, Sweeney and the BBC included, e-mailed bomb threats from a local internet cafe. Remind you of Paulette Cooper at all?

Then of course you claimed that everyone was free to leave. Not true at all, sadly. If somebody leaves and/or speaks out against the CoS they're declared a Supressive Person and forbidden to have further contact with church members. The more involved people become with Scientology the less they have to do with the outside world, so it's quite feasible for people to end up separated from friends or even their entire family.

Again, if you read my posts you'll see I've stated mulitiple times that I don't agree with the more aggressive tactics Anonymous are using. The problem with groups like Anonymous is that the members are... well, anonymous. They have no leader to speak of and are pretty much a law onto themselves, so on one hand you get the members who want to do this legally through peaceful protests and educating people about the church, and on the other you get the ones who do stupid things like hacking sites and posting social security numbers online. That kind of thing is down to individuals rather than the group. There are plenty of people who are operating independently as well as under the banner of Anonymous and are helping out in perfectly legal and ethical ways, but you're not going to hear about them because it's not exciting enough to be news. I know the image Ragnar posted was a parody from the Weekly World News but that's exactly the kind of story a lot of the bigger media outlets are going for on this. Don't forget that the target audience for a lot of mainstream media is the moral outrage feigning, middle-aged member of society who's frightened and confused by not only the internet but technology in general. Mysterious groups of internet users = evil hackers who want to blow up your family. It gets picked up on because it sells papers to the same people who go "but the CoS has been around for ~50 years! Jonh Travolta is a member, and if they were up to something illegal it would have been shut down by now!".

Also, please stop bringing George Bush into everything if you want to be credited with at least a modicum of intelligence. I can't work out if it makes you sound like a tinfoil hat or a 14 year old.

[Elmdor Rizer]

I've stopped partaking in discussions, but...

Frankly, if people are stupid enough to let themselves die because a moron (regardless of his motivation, good or bad) told them to, I don't give a fuck.

True enough. Cults do however piss me off because of the indoctrination of children.

[Panda Man]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfKQ75F0XsA

I don't know about the whole "raid" part of this one but it's still pretty funny. With as many views as this one got it's going to be hard to take it down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCbKv9yiLiQ

Same as above, going to be hard to take down. I lol'd.

[Dr Mario]

Where's natural selection when you need it?

Doing what it's always done. Those that breed most dominate the gene pool and the stupid breed like cockroaches. Always have.

[Mr. Anonymous]

Again, if you read my posts you'll see I've stated mulitiple times that I don't agree with the more aggressive tactics Anonymous are using. The problem with groups like Anonymous is that the members are... well, anonymous. They have no leader to speak of and are pretty much a law onto themselves, so on one hand you get the members who want to do this legally through peaceful protests and educating people about the church, and on the other you get the ones who do stupid things like hacking sites and posting social security numbers online. That kind of thing is down to individuals rather than the group. There are plenty of people who are operating independently as well as under the banner of Anonymous and are helping out in perfectly legal and ethical ways, but you're not going to hear about them because it's not exciting enough to be news. I know the image Ragnar posted was a parody from the Weekly World News but that's exactly the kind of story a lot of the bigger media outlets are going for on this. Don't forget that the target audience for a lot of mainstream media is the moral outrage feigning, middle-aged member of society who's frightened and confused by not only the internet but technology in general. Mysterious groups of internet users = evil hackers who want to blow up your family. It gets picked up on because it sells papers to the same people who go "but the CoS has been around for ~50 years! Jonh Travolta is a member, and if they were up to something illegal it would have been shut down by now!".

You make a great point kind sir. Some members of Anonymous are misguided and do things the wrong way. Using vandalism and other illegal means to get Anon's points accross is not the right way. Like you stated, Anonymous does not have a leader so unfortunately there is no set way of getting Anon's point accross. I assure you however, that there are more members of Anonymous that want to do things the legal and peaceful way rather than the childish and chaotic way.

[Kazuya Mishima]

You make a great point kind sir. Some members of Anonymous are misguided and do things the wrong way. Using vandalism and other illegal means to get Anon's points accross is not the right way. Like you stated, Anonymous does not have a leader so unfortunately there is no set way of getting Anon's point accross. I assure you however, that there are more members of Anonymous that want to do things the legal and peaceful way rather than the childish and chaotic way.

[Mr. Anonymous]

Well maybe not chaotic...just illegal way then.

[Panda Man]

I donnu, DDOS attacks and compromising server security is pretty chaotic :O

[Cosmic]

You make a great point kind sir. Some members of Anonymous are misguided and do things the wrong way. Using vandalism and other illegal means to get Anon's points accross is not the right way. Like you stated, Anonymous does not have a leader so unfortunately there is no set way of getting Anon's point accross. I assure you however, that there are more members of Anonymous that want to do things the legal and peaceful way rather than the childish and chaotic way.

Thanks. It's a shame that a relatively small number of people are giving the group a bad name, especially in a situation like this. I can understand the vigilante "fight fire with fire" approach to a certain extent but I really don't know how much good it'll do. If Anon wants to bring the CoS to justice then the entire group needs to be watertight from a legal standpoint - any foul play they're involved in can and will be used against them by not only the church but various media bodies too. :\