Besides, violence (and especially murder) didn't really get started until Cain tried to become better than his brother, then got all pissy just because he wasn't Abel to manage it.
Hope and Fate
Besides, violence (and especially murder) didn't really get started until Cain tried to become better than his brother, then got all pissy just because he wasn't Abel to manage it.
Cookie Thief
Originally Posted by Zephyr
Besides, violence (and especially murder) didn't really get started until Cain tried to become better than his brother, then got all pissy just because he wasn't Abel to manage it.
Why you...
*shakes fist*
Member
Whoever said that is a genious.
Super Moderator
@ goosethemighty and feradais: Couldn't agree more
Anyway my opinion is that people fear what they don't understand. The people who blamed video games have probably never played one. Therefore they fear it and when they see their children interested in something they don't understand their distrust grows. If there is one thing that I think makes humans an inferior species it is our ignorance and our tendency to act upon it. The early days of computing had several older people scared majorly fearing the whole 1984 scenario was coming to pass. There are many more things like that in human history. Eventually the opposing force to "human existence" is either wiped out or becomes accepted. Hopefully video games will become an accepted form of entertainment and art. I've been playing video games all my life. When I was just a young child I frequently watched older family members play video games (this was the late 80's during the days when the NES was everywhere). Eventually I became a major gamer myself. Name a violent video game, I've played it. I am not a very violent person (I've gotten into a lot of fights in my younger days, but I had good reason for that. The other person was frequently one of four bullies who started fights with everyone. When they started something I had a problem minding my own business....). Columbine was a serious overreaction in my school. They suddenly took a zero tolerance rule on fighting/bullying/guns. My problem was that the next day I ended up in a fist fight after school which resulted in a four week suspension. By the time I got back, it was like nothing happened, except that guns were no longer allowed near school property (Where I'm from there is a heavily wooded area, kids tend to go off there with hunting rifles or smaller firearms (such as bb guns) to shoot at soda cans, squirrels, or seagulls during recess. Hunting is a pretty big thing, so pretty much every house has a gun and the younger ones carry simple "training guns" which can't kill but will leave a bad mark if you get shot. That was the end of recess shooting.).
My opinion is that video games are not to blame, it is human nature to kill what you hate. Some just can't seem to repress it. If I killed everyone who angered me just once, there would be a lot fewer people around (especially drivers who don't pay attention because of that cell phone only to cut me off or nearly hit me).
IMO utopia will never happen. Utopia is perfection. Humans are imperfect. Therefore utopia is devoid of humans. IMO humans wll eventually wipe themselves out. The only thing you can do is enjoy your life and hope you wake up in the morning.
EDIT-Biblical humor. Always good. I wonder if Eve gave Adam about the murder...
Last edited by Raype; 18th-January-2006 at 03:04.
Breeder
I just want to hit on the issue of them blaming video games for their actions. Lets just say that Video Games did affect thier behavior and it did cause them to do it. Well then the blame shouldn;t have fallen on the Video game companies, it should have fallen on the parents. If you notice that after your kid plays a rousing game of mario kart that he trys to steal your call, load it with trutle shells and fling them at other cars in an attempt to knock them off the road, then you need to TAKE THE GAME AWAY!!!
And on the Utopia thing.....It's possible....just very unlikly. Infact so unlikly that their really isn't a point in saying its possible. You could have utopia if you killed everyone on the planet except yourself, or if thier were only like 1000 select people decided to be alive and they bread children with the same morals. In a sense as long as they kept an aknowledge that bad things were possible (ridding themselves of movies, books, and all other media) then their shildren would never even concive of the bad. But that society would SUCK. I like watching shit explode, and people getting shot, and get fight scenes thats all rip off of the matrix. So yeah utopia is possible, but do the goods outway the bads?
And on Colombine. FUCK THEM!!! thats right fuck em. Its their own dumbass fault. Their were some causaltys but besides them fuck the rest. The kids shouldn;t have done it, but you don;t fuck around with the crazy kid that can use a gun, and some teachers shoulda noticed and had a counselor talk with them. I mean really, people need to stop actin like it was a HUGE thing. So some kids died, 10,000 kids die in 1 hour from starvation, and some how that goes unoticed. here my advice for any one who is scared. 1. DONT FUCK WITH THE CRAZY KIDS!!! 2. BE THE CRAZY KID!!!! 3.MAKE A LIST!!!
No...
Mightier than the duck!
Some feradais and Omega agree as well as terill besides a few points in his last paragraph.
One point I hugely agree with Terill on is Utopia is possible. But only when there are somany humans living on this earth. Saldy it wont ever come to that or ideed it may if we wipe all but a few of us out from some huge worldy event.
As for Omega video games are becomign a very accepted form of entertainment and art. it has come a long way in the last few years long enough so when bigots start pointing blame at them no one notices or even cares. WHy? because the people who are having kids who play the new games now are the ones who played Atari and Nintendo man! Understanding is breed bye understanding! Wooooohooooo! As for the bullies I applaud you as I am one who always rushed in to stop them from causing trouble whenever i could and still do to this day.
Its sad this this thread has come to an agreement that we are all fucked. But if you think about it this world has a maximum human capacity rate and its something like this.
max capacity rate for Humans on Earth: 10,000,000
Current Human capacity on Earth: 6,678,654,345
We are fucked!
Banned
And even if everyone acts how one wants them to, there's no guarantee that that is the way they're supposed to act.
Actually, it's the (mis)use of technology that is bridging the distance b/w us and barbarism. So really, technological advancement has only given us more means to be rear our ugly barbaric sides.
That's actually one of the most sensible things I've read in a while. It's ironical, but humans are comfortable with their 'own kind'. They like grouping, not b/c they're more comfortable with people, but more so, because they're too demn uncomfortable with who they are and can't be different. It is no wonder that peer pressure is one of the highest factors for most unhealthy activities. (I'm not passing a moral judgment, clearly talking in terms of health. Yes, I am aware that marijuana may have a trillion medicinal purposes, but hell, if you OD on dope, you're not going to be what is commonly referred to as 'healthy'.)
Individuality, non-conformism, rebellion, anomalies. These are all the unacceptable. They will always stand as a challenge to the norm. Humans are comfortable creating norms and living in/by/with them. Anything that disturbs it, must be eliminated for it is a threat to the existence of the norm itself. Difference of opinion is not tolerated because it's always a threat to the hegemony.
I can't say I feel there's something definitely wrong in the world today. Hell, I'm not talking about only shitty childhoods and mass murderers and definitely not crazy Nazis (I wuuv you, Schutzy; ), I'm talking about how our generation, not that I've lived in any other generation that I can remember of, has seen and is subject to more violence, hatred, death, pain and negativity than ever before.
And one would think that since there's so much of all this shit, people would be super inclined to do something about it, but no, what we see is a direct increase in ignorance and apathy. Desensitization is one thing. I need to cut off sometimes, I need to do it every time I read a paper or watch the news, if I don't I simply can't handle it, not only for the gross commercialization of the news, but the content of the news itself. It's too real. And I don't want to be an escapist, but sometimes I'm just not equipped to handle the result of knowing. But no matter what, I think, I would never embrace a credo like ignorance is bliss.
I guess, I'm shit scared too. I've seen more death, abuse, violence, hate than I thought I could handle. Not trying to trivialize anyone else's experiences, just commenting on how I think there's something seriously not right with the world. I also, paradoxically, have too much faith in humans, in life. Maybe that's the reason for all the morbid feelings as a result of reading about the news. I believe that we are absolutely capable of "giving into mass hysteria, hate, and anger, Giving birth to the " apocalpyse" where all humans destroy eachother", but I also believe we have the power to do the opposite. That I think, keeps me going. I don't believe in a God/god or any particular religion, so I don't have those conventional cushions, but I do have my faith, and if one wants to cal it a religion, go ahead, but I think, just knowing that as humans we have an incredible power with us, it gives me so much assurance, so much to hang on to.
You're actually the first person I've met who thinks like that too. Not that you believe in god and not religion, but the fact that you think they're disconnected. And I don't think it's a contradiction.
I think about Columbine and any other random crazy killing by a teenager has a lot to do with what goosethemighty said. Though I think there's a peculiar quality in the American society which breeds this level of violence which is subsequently treated with the carelessness that Columbine was treated with (referring to the finger-pointing and media-caused-explosion). Apart from the easy availability of ammunition and the fact that there is enough access to information about 'ways to kill' to put it as blandly as possible, the general negative liberal foundation that America was initially based on, doesn't and can't survive anymore in a world where there is largely a globalizing capitalist system (which mind, has been very largely propagated by countries like the US). And yet, the American society is accustomed to living a safe, secure, sheltered, free life. What is of course not realized is that this ideology cannot be disassociated with the kind of economy America has and if that economy is to go beyond the berry-picking state of naked solidarity of Locke's 'state of nature', it will most definitely greatly affect the kind of liberal and political environment that exists in the country.
Really? I thought it started when Adam screwed Eve and they had little Jesus and then Eve realized Adam was no good anyway and killed him and then screwed Jesus and had lots of other children. See, murder and incest in one go!Demn. I know the religious and biological purists are coming at with me with their axes.
I agreed with most of everything else you said, except that. It's way off topic, but honestly, there's nothing natural about human beings with the exception that they are social beings. If it were so natural to murder that which we hate, then by now (and we've been around for quite a few years; ), we would have had only one type of people and very few of them too, because every biological process has great chances of producing an anomaly.
I choose to not comment on your other rather radical views, however, for this, do you not think that in today's day of great technological leaps and almost every American policy tabled until the 1990s started with "If we can put a man on the moon, we can do...", that it is remotely, even in the slightest sense possible to go to a friends house or an arcade and play the same game?
Whoa. Went on and on there.
Mightier than the duck!
Dingy you are not alone in this world, there are alot of people who velieve in God and not religion. I myself along with feradais and you and am one of them. I repect peoples religions but I think its religion that creates 90% of hatred towards anything different. Which is silly cause in the end everyone is wrong until you are dead.
i AM the Pumpkin King!
ummmm, religion? wow, thats a kinda big jump from columbine. So to get back on topic:
Who do you guys blame for that whole mess popping up?
1) God
2) Those goddamn electronical Games!
3) The Parents
4) Society
5) How about instead of blame, we fix it so there is noone to blame?
hmmm, wonder which option is popular here at EP
Banned
Organized (for Dingy) religion is just a crutch - an excuse for one's own shortcomings. It lets people justify beliefs that aren't justifiable. It doesn't have to be, but if not, it is unnecessary. Anyhow, that's not really on topic. The hatred stems from within each individual, but such a crutch allows them to justify it, and focus it.
When people are pushed to the brink, they break. It doesn't justify what they do, but it doesn't happen without reason. There will always be cases of it, and it is up to individuals to decide what they do when they break...massacre is not a good choice.
Super Moderator
Seems possible. The world may very well reach an equilibrium since there have been so many "super diseases" and "massive natural disasters" over the last century. It will probably wipe out the unhealthy and those people unfortunate enough to live in an area that just so happens to be hit by some freak weather. I think 10 mil is a bit of an understatement since this probably assumes American living methods. That would be much more destructive than a natural method of living or a less wasteful lifestyle.
Good point. Video game movies have become widespread and it appears that mostly older people are pushing for these "video game bans". The problem is that the governments and influential people of the world are mostly older white males who try way too hard to use religion to justify their methods. Anything that gets them on TV I guess. Luckily it appears that things have calmed much since the old days of DooM, Mortal Kombat and GTA3. Good to know that you try to prevent trouble. It's not an easy job, but its something that has to be done.As for Omega video games are becomign a very accepted form of entertainment and art. it has come a long way in the last few years long enough so when bigots start pointing blame at them no one notices or even cares. WHy? because the people who are having kids who play the new games now are the ones who played Atari and Nintendo man! Understanding is breed bye understanding! Wooooohooooo! As for the bullies I applaud you as I am one who always rushed in to stop them from causing trouble whenever i could and still do to this day.
May be a little off topic, but remember that we are talking about two murderers. And no matter what the media will try to say about "heartless killing machines" or "evil monsters", these people were human just like us. I think it is a very natural thing to kill another human. I don't know about anyone else, but the moment someone enrages me, the first thought that crosses my mind ( subliminaly, like a reflex) is to beat them sensless. What do I do? I repress it. I smile and nod and take whatever crap they pile onto me. I walk away. I say "yes sir" or "sure"' and get on with my life.This is no different than when I repress my urge to sleep when I have work to do, or when I need to pull a late night study session. Humans have become quite good at blocking their urges, but they are still there (at least in my case). I have never murdered anyone or injured anyone who didn't deserve it (last person I hit was an angry drunk). Does that mean I don't occasionally think about running down an instuctor I don't like with my car? Destroying a school computer when it suddenly crashes? or perhaps beating up that one guy who is always trying to be better than me? No. We live in a society now. We are no longer animals. The past of rampant wars (slicing someone to peices with a sword and shooting them on a computer screen with a missile are two very different things) and killing are behind us. Humans are now expected to act "civilized". Some are unable to cope and revert back to natural ways. Is it a natural thing to be sitting in an office 12 hours a day staring at a screen, schedualing everything? No, but we do it anyway...this is getting bizarre and disorganized. I may need to clarify this later when I am in a better position to argue. BTW, It's not just humans that i am referring to. Notice the high extinction rates for animals lately? Seems odd that if something has no real benefit for us we kill it. Deforestation of course is a major cause, but why don't we stop it to help these creatures? Because killing is natural. Because we are more important. Because we are superior. Because we are "gods". They are nothing. We kill whatever we want as long as it isn't human. As stated earlier there was an area where the kids went to shoot stuff. Notice that squirrels and gulls came up? Why is it that these young students would kill a seagull for fun? It appears that killing is just a natural thing to many species. Were they able to grasp the fact that they were killing these animals or inflicting cruel things upon them? Maybe, maybe not. Point is it's been going on for generations in that area and many other small communities (learning to fire a gun here is as normal as learning to ride a bike). Notice also that every time someone creates a law or rule method Murder is always near the top of the list (in religion and in laws). Why is it that murder is such a major issue? Stealing appears to be about the only other one with such major consistency in religious texts. Humans appear to have been fighting the urge to kill or have been coming up with ways to stop it for quite some time. Were it not such a natural act, it would be nearly non existant. Instead, we see more wars, more hatred, more fighting. The reason? IMO it's simply that we as a species feel that anything we don't have a use for must die. THat anything that goes against us must die. No one will listen to the other side, we just want to silence them permanently. Now I am saying that about humans as a species. Just as I am saying that humans are a flawed, evil, and ultimately doomed species IMO. We are horrible creatures that are capable of the worst thing imaginable. Our continued existance is slowly killing everything we touch. Does that mean I will lock myself away or start hating all of you? No. You are good people. I like my friends. I enjoy hanging out with people. I like my life. As a race however, we are making horrible descisions that will eventually catch up to us. As far as I'm concerned we'll be lucky to survive as a species for the next 100 years.
You seem to be contradicting. Eliminating the abnormal and killing that which you hate are one and the same. Hate stems from ignorance of that which is different. Hate leads to violence. Violence leads to war. War leads to death. Is it not normal to kill that which threatens you? What if the threat is all in your head? What if the threat is more of a repeated annoyance and not, say, a true "kill or be killed" scenario? I doubt many people kill just for fun. They kill someone they don't like. They kill because they are stressed out. They kill because they have reason to hate this person. I don't think that is too far from eliminating that which is different. No murderer will understand their victim. Did these two Columbine killers understand why these people were bullying them? Did they see their victims as human? Did the victims try to see things from the killers perspective when bullying them earlier which may have stopped the tragedy? I doubt it. They just disliked these people so much they felt they had to die. That is eliminating a threat through a very violent means. But it is still eliminating none the less. Two sides that are too thick headed to give in or compromize. Eventually the feild will expand and death may be the only option. Eliminate that which threatens you, or die trying. That was their choice.
As for humans being social, I know a guy who appears to be always alone. He rarely speaks to anyone. I have never seen him outside of school. Does that sound social? Not to me. Is he a freak? No. He's actually a nice guy despite the fact that he hates people in general and has spoken maybe 5 words to me since September. He sure hasn't done anything to that makes him seem overly odd, but he does refuse any offer I make of hitting the bars or hanging out with some people. I have many more examples, due to the fact that I attend school in a program filled with hardcore computer nerds who haven't seen the sun in years and who appear to be shy to a ridiculous degree.
Sorry to hear that you're so depressed over life. Humans have a tendancy to disappoint me. I overlook it by simply avoiding it as much as possible. I'm more focused on my own life than what others are doing. It may seem like ignorance but it works for me. Cheer up and try not to watch too much news. It has a way of depressing people too much. If you must read something, try focusing on some good news, like a local paper or something. It's boring, but it's less likely to feature the latest body counts from the terrorist attack in *random Mid east town here* or the hurricane in "insert tropical city name here*. Hopefully your beliefs will keep you from getting too affected by all the negativity in the world today.
Mightier than the duck!
Of everything that we have all said it seem swe ar all pointing in the same direction. Our self-destruction.
If there is indeed a God or higher power he left us long ago or has enough intelligence not to play puppet master and let us divide amoung ourselves.
i am a person who believes in the good of evil men. Meaning I have faith that even thou we strive on evil we are still good or that good is deep in all of us. This is why many people ask why I hang out with such losers and so called low lifes. Its because I see the good beyond the hatred and i strive to bring that out.
Does this make me naive? Is my head in the sky? probably so. I want to and I needto believ that even thou we have signed away the fate on mankind, that there is just as much love and greatness as there is hatred and I want to bring that out. But its the hatred that takes hold of everyone including myself that starts with "Hey look at that guy hes different" and leads to "Kill him". There could be so much more, we could have accomplished so much more but yet we define our existance we define our species and we worshipthe religions that preach love yet breed war.
Maybe this thread as come off topic from Columbine or maybe it hasnt. maybe Columbine is just a stone in the great mosaic of mankind.
Breeder
I can't seem to delete this. Any mods mind deleting this for me?
Last edited by Terill; 19th-January-2006 at 04:12.
No...
Breeder
Without Religion people would have no hope of an after-life. Do you know what the world would be like if people knew they were gonna die and that would be it? no heaven? no hell? no reincarnation? They would be crazy with grief, and they would do stupid things because they are going to die anyway. Why do you think major religions enforce good deeds for some benefit in the afterlife? Because its easy and makes easy control, people donp;t do crazy shit when they figuer it out, or they just don't figuer it out at all. People need religion to live, I wish I was still religious, but its to late. And if death doesn't scare the shit out of you (or if death hasn't scared the shit outta you) then you don't understand what I'm saying.
ummmm, religion? wow, thats a kinda big jump from columbine. So to get back on topic:
Who do you guys blame for that whole mess popping up?
1) God
2) Those goddamn electronical Games!
3) The Parents
4) Society
5) How about instead of blame, we fix it so there is noone to blame?
hmmm, wonder which option is popular here at EP
How the hell do you fix something that already happend? I can explain light-speed dilation to you? but I'm not. Instead I'm gonna tell you to fix it yourself if your so god damn smart.
1. if you did mean that seriously what makes you think that any of us have the power to make something like that happen
2. Even if we did have the power how would we use that power to prevent another colombine?
3. And even if we had the power and a possible plan would it be workable?
I don't think so. The Human race is doing anything but evolving. All the people with diesies get treated and live to kids, the good genes don;t have a way of over powering the bad accept when it comes to dominace, and then it 50-50 chanes of which one might be dominant. And as for "super diseases" pft! some body will find a cure or treatment, and people with bad genes will survive and contaminat the gene pool, and freak weather will just kill everyone.
I think we can last another 1000 years, now I;m not saying in the conditions we live in now. First we run outta oil, then we over populate, some dictator will take over earth (or part of it) and then we overthrow him and reinstate some new earth government and then things decline. Any point in that we could all just die.
Please, go for it. Do not think you'll piss me off or offend me. I would like to hear what you think.
If you know you kid does this kinda crap, you have to keep a tight leesh on them, or better yet get them some help. Get them to go see some one. Don't let your children go over to other childrens houses, encourage them to come over to your house, or simply inform the parents of what you do and do not allow your child to play., if it is a matter of security then it is more important
Appearently you have never smoked pot. It would be really had to od. You would pass out before you could OD. You would have to get like a weed brick and put it in your fireplace, and have some one replace the bricks everynow and then till you died.
No...
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