Rejoice all! America stays safe!

[Sprung]

What attack has been prevented, pray tell?

All of them that didn't happen, Dingy Anyone who thinks there hasn't been an attempt on America in the last 4 years is silly. Our system, while not even close to being perfect, is working.

[Norgus]

Its not all that easy to tell if the fact you have evaded all those terrorist attack attempts (there must have been a lot.. ok I'm not sure I believe this myself at the moment) was due to any part of the patriot act. Is there even a slight chance that maybe the attempts on America could have been provented without the patriot act in place and competent people doing their jobs related to law enforcement?

You know, you could assume everyone is guilty until proven innocent and question everyone routinely like once a month or something. If your answers don't seem very patriotic its probably safest to lock you up and start investigating with you safely behind bars where you can't blow up on anyone.

I'm sure that would lower the chance of terrorist attack quite drastically, whats a little questioning and the possibility of being locked up on suspicion? You have your freedom protected.. oh wait.

[Sprung]

The anti-terrorism forces we had in place pre-9/11 were obviously not enough. What we have now is better, but I did add that they were not perfect

[Ahkei]

Needs more bombing of america.

[malice2501]

hell, im just glad Sprung's sig is back to being sexy . The women of America are now safe for the night.

Seriously though, the forces in place before 9-11 were obviously crap, and depending on what you believe, may have been intentionally distracted. They can add more personel with better training without knowing that i rented Dante's Inferno from my local library.

[Ahkei]

It was all aliens dude....They just came outta the treess man.....We didn't even see 'em coming...

[Sprung]

hell, im just glad Sprung's sig is back to being sexy . The women of America are now safe for the night.

Seriously though, the forces in place before 9-11 were obviously crap, and depending on what you believe, may have been intentionally distracted. They can add more personel with better training without knowing that i rented Dante's Inferno from my local library.

Yeah, I see your point. I don't think the library issue is as big as people make it out to be though. I think I heard it was more of a watch on the Internet access in public places (library).

Oh, they called. That movie is overdue

[Great Mizuti]

Bush Sucks, get rid of him

[malice2501]

Yeah, I see your point. I don't think the library issue is as big as people make it out to be though. I think I heard it was more of a watch on the Internet access in public places (library).

Oh, they called. That movie is overdue

They have been watching internet access across the world anyway, they just couldnt use it conventionally. While it's not a big deal them peeking into your library and health records, people tend to lash out because it's a first step towards limiting our freedoms. There have been several now retired senators who said something startling: They didn't read the patriot Act, nor were they the ones who even wrote it. Who did you say? None other than the lawyers of prez Bush (each of these lawyers have corporate ties btw).

All of it is about how far will we let "Big Brother" go to "protect" us? Today we give them health records because we are scared of Bin Laden. Tomorrow we give him unchecked war powers in Iraq. Next year, we let them take DNA samples of everyone for "public record". In ten years? Shit, better get some lamasil for that new barcode tatoo on your forehead.

[legoman]

Bush Sucks, get rid of him

duh pretty obvious but don't waste your time on people who try to support him

[Dingy]

All of them that didn't happen, Dingy Anyone who thinks there hasn't been an attempt on America in the last 4 years is silly. Our system, while not even close to being perfect, is working.

Hehe, thanks Sprung, I am sure everyone who knows me already knows how dumb I am
I am certain there must be some evidence/records of said attacks that have been prevented. If it has prevented all these great perilous attacks then why are they even repealing the act in the first place and why wasn't it a permanent law and why was it only passed for a temporary duration. Sprung or any one else, please point me to one link where the Patriot Act has directly helped prevent an attack, that couldn't have otherwise be prevented with more security and administration (that didn't require nosing around people's records). In the Section 215 of the Act there is no provision for the production of a "statement of facts" showing "reasonable grounds to believe that the records or other things sought are relevant to an authorized investigation" involving international terrorism or espionage. So basically, the law was said to be used against potentially dangerous elements. But it can be used against anybody in the USA. This Section has been in the process of improvement with certain laudable modifications which can be seen here.

At least there is Section 223. The least the damn Act could have. But even this, like all saviours will die in all probability on December 31st.

The Act itself is a mass of contradictions. On the one hand you have Sections like 102 (condemnding discrimination against Arab and Muslim Americans) and on the other you have allegations against the CIA of having used European airports and airspace to transport suspected Islamic extremists between countries without even following legal processes. Therefore, rearing the uglier and the real side of this entire campaign of fighting Islam and not only terrorism.

Moreover, the provisions of the The Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001 state that the records obtained from say a third party such as a hospital or a library, of an individual without him/her ever knowing that s/he has been the subject of investigation at all. I mean, in all honesty, if I was being investigated, I'd at least like to know. But, hell, fuck the Fourth Amendment.

[Bertinan]

Err...hope no one gets angry at me for adding to a almost dead topic, but anyway...

None of you know what kind of damage terrorism does because its always the military, or other countries, that takes all the damage...

Granted, it doesnt seem like a big problem...until a terrorist group gets hold of a nuclear missle and detonates it in D.C...

It does happen, believe me. With Russia selling off all of its weapons, and countries like Iran developing nuclear potential, its only a matter of time. However, the longer it can be prevented, until, maybe, a way is found to stop WMD's(which there never will be, but here's hoping). Finally...we are not a free nation, nor have we ever been. Our way of life has been heavily affected by the opinions of the minority, namely, the Christian minority. In fact, most of the laws in the country are based on Christian values. I'm not saying their bad values, but, nonetheless...

BTW....did anyone know that its technically illegal to have sex before your 18...? Good thing they dont enforce that one

[Mistral]

You don't need to worry as much about Russia selling off their nukes - the rest of the world would put as much pressure as they could to stop Putin (and you do not want to see what would happen to the Russian economy if the world pushes an embargo on Russian oil and mineral resources; Arabia and Venezuela may be pleased, but Russia certainly wouldn't be), and of course, Putin is sure to recognize that Chechen Muslims are causing his country quite a bit of trouble already, so supplying other terrorists - predominately Muslim for global, rather than regional, activity - may become an instance of trouble coming home to roost. Even the fact that they lost so many nukes, including several of those nasty suitcase bombs, after the collapse isn't as much a problem, since a lot of the nukes turned out to be absolutely worthless, courtesy of Soviet maintenance in the closing days.

Iran may be a bit more of a problem, but I think the mullahs will recognize that once they develop nuclear weapons (and they will, even if they're using a slow, decentralized method to keep Israel from launching another strike), any Muslim nuclear attack against a Western nation will invite reprisals against Iran, so they'll have a rather vested interest in keeping terrorism nuclear-free. Of course, not all mullahs are interested in power, or at least, not more so than the possibility of giving the Great Satan a kick to the nads, but I think (read: hope) that the moderates can be trusted...

[Bertinan]

Nah, have you been keeping up with the Iranian news? The new president is an extremist. He's also trying a powergrab, and it looks like its gonna work. I remember reading him saying something along the lines of "All Zionists must die." Wasnt as nice, though...

Kinda sad though, cause most Iranians want to re-open negotiations with America...

Finally, Iran doesnt need to develop actual nuclear missle capabilities...they just have to start the uranium enrichment process and someone will steal some off them. Or some idiot in power will get the bright idea to go ahead and nuke Isreal...

Oh, and, err, nice sig

[SegNin]

(beautiful sig btw Zephyr)

From the 1950's to the 1990's:
Fear of Russia (or Cuba, or some other Soviet bloc country) starting a nuclear war.

From 1990 to present:
Substitute Russia with Middle East.

More things change.
More they stay the same.
Yay.


*cheerfully*
Happy New Year Everyone!