Bush Or Kerry

[Xaenn]

yep, It's a tragedy it is, i did post a rather lengthy arguement over in the cheerleading thread if you wanted to read that though

In fact I did just read it, but wasn't sure how I should reply.

[karragh]

In fact I did just read it, but wasn't sure how I should reply.

ah well, as long as the specific people I replied to reply, that's what counts.

[Xaenn]

ah well, as long as the specific people I replied to reply, that's what counts.

Indeed...perhaps we should stop junking up this thread?

[karragh]

Indeed...perhaps we should stop junking up this thread?

I'd reply to that except i"d be junking up the thread...



/me looks at his monitor


oh shit!
oh well, last post now.

[Dingy]

ah! Karragh is back with a spam bang! Anyway, no one replied to what I said, so I'm simply going to reiterate my vote for the gazzilionth time- Anyone but Bush.

[reagan80]

I'd have no problem with Bush being openly religious... If he believed in all religions equally. You don't think having Christian fundamentalist president who's going to war against terrorism in the middle east puts any pressure on, say... Muslims in the US? Really. I'm 16 years old, and still I've studied history enough to clearly see that church and state should be separated at all times.

What? Believe in all religions equally? Are you saying that he has to believe in Allah, Buddha, Jesus, Satan, and Scientology in order to get your blessing? The Christian religion doesn't take too kindly to polytheism among its followers as does Islam and Judaism.

I'm telling you that he's not a fundamentalist and church and state are still as separate as can be. When Bush banned partial birth abortion, Congress still left some room in the bill he signed that allowed women to get PBA's if they met the criteria for rare extreme cases. That sounds reasonable to me. Bush hasn't done anything else to hinder a woman's "right to choose" except maybe cease government funding for abortions.

He didn't ban stem-cell research. He just didn't want to give the researchers much government funding since half the country doesn't want to open the door for a government-sponsored industry of trading cloned or aborted body parts & tissue. If stem-cell research is so great, the pharmaceutical and medical-related corporations would pour money into it.

"My fellow Americans, this is our moment. Let us lift our eyes as one nation, and from the mountaintop of this American century, look ahead to the next one, asking God's blessing on our endeavors and on our beloved country."

Take a guess as to who said the above quote..........(Hint:NOT Bush)
Do you consider this person a fundamentalist that violated the church/state separation as well?

About Iraq and American Muslims........Would it have made any difference if an atheist President invaded Afghanistan and Iraq instead? An atheist could have come to the same conclusion as Bush and still invaded Iraq. In any case, the Muslims over there are going to be just as pissed at being invaded by an infidel whether it be atheist or Christian. I don't understand the part about Muslim pressure in the US. Are you referring to anti-Muslim or anti-Arab hate crimes committed by whites or Christians or Jews? I haven't heard of any rampant incidents lately.

Yeah, they left for freedom, then enslaved people, funny that.

"He who hath not sinned, cast the first stone." Almost every civilization, nation, and religion in existence has committed atrocities somewhere down the line, but over time they usually reform the error of their ways. If I did some research, I could probably find some atheist that committed genocide. Would you want me to hold a past incident like that against you or your group?

So where is the problem with Civil Unions? That are not called Marriage, but give them equal treatment under the law as Married people.

I would be sooo COOL with that. If these people would just drop the word "marriage" and call it a civil union, I bet Bush & the GOP would cease seeking to ban gay marriage. It would be a nice compromise.

However I do know that the instability that is in Iraq today is because of US intervention. The Iraqis don't want them there. Atleast the majority of them, cosisting of the poor, lower middle class common man, whose opinion doesn't matter anyway. Everyday the death toll is easily above 50 for both the Iraqis and the Americans. This rising instability in Iraq can only be settled of the US leaves.

If we leave now, that is the best way to piss away any chance of the Iraqis ever achieving a free democratic society. When we leave, the Iranians and Syrians are going send dumptrucks of AK-47's to their fellow fundamentalist loons in Iraq. Since Iraq doesn't have enough of its own cops and military to provide stability, the current transition government in Iraq would be overthrown by these terrorists. When their government is overthrown by these fuckwits, the major factions there aren't going to stand idly by to get fucked over by another ethnic or religious group's dictator. The Kurds, Shiites, and Sunnis will secede their territory from each other and then start battling over who has control of the oil reserves. In any case, the terrorists win and they get a new area of operations to start conducting their next attack on American soil.

Do you honestly think we'll leave now just to end up coming back later to finish the job again because of another terrorist attack that originates from there? Either we properly finish the job there now, or we send our troops back to Iraq later when we find out that al Qaeda made a dirty bomb on their soil that they used to kill hundreds here. In any case, you're gonna bitch about the awful Americans and the evil boosh.......

If you leave Iraq in a civil war situation, it's your goddamn fault! You were meant to stabilize Iraq and leave ages ago...what is he waiting for? Another barrel of oil?

1. Really?
2. Let me see your country work a miracle and turn a country that has been under the iron fist of a brutal dictator for decades into a stable free society in less than a year.
3. Silly goose, the war was never about oil. Let me tell you some interesting trivia.........
A) Bush wasn't the only president to give Halliburton no-bid contracts, Clinton did too when he was in the Balkans. So I don't understand why people keep giving the shrub, "Ohnoes, he's turning Iraq into a subsidiary of Halliburton!!!!11111"
You ought to look at Halliburton the same way you view Microsoft. Sure, it sucks that Microsoft receives the majority of the business. But there aren't many companies who can do what they do on that scale. Oh, I forgot to mention that the only viable alternative to Halliburton was a French company. Like we really need to give the French our taxdollars.........

B) The UN Security Council rejected American efforts to place sanctions on the Sudan to stop the genocide. Why? The French torpedoed it. Why did France object? The Sudanese have oil reserves and the French have a stake in them. Any other American "blood for oil" conspiracies that I need to know of?

Where was all this kindness Uncle Sam is showing now, when all the world was begging at America's knees to fight Iraq when Saddam was committing genocide against the Kurds and the Shi'as?

Because someone else was on their knees at the time giving Clinton a hummer........priorities.......priorities......

Bush is increasingly making America a global hate-target......

Which came first? The chicken or the egg? Bush's presidency or terrorist attacks? We were hated before Bush. We'll be hated after Bush. I don't give a shit what anyone outside my country thinks and I sure as hell don't care what the terrorists think or why they hate us. If you hate us enough that you are plotting to kill us, then you deserve a MOAB colonic.....

I'm going to use the Cameron Alien flick to prove my point. If there is one alien parasite(facehugger), do you leave it alone and hope that it doesn't spread to kill everything on the face of the planet. If the actions of humans cause the alien population and threat to grow, do you still leave the threat alone in the hopes that it doesn't come back to haunt you?

Now, imagine that initially bin Laden only has around 10 thousand terrorist followers. He successfully pulls off the 9/11 attacks with 19 men. We send our military to wipe out the terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan. bin Laden gets 100,000 new followers because of American anti-terrorist activities. Do you just retreat and leave the terrorists alone in the hope that they won't come back to haunt us later? No, not a single terrorist should be breathing on the face of the earth, so if there are 100,000 of them they should all be taking a dirt nap. Retreating won't make that happen. If 19 guys could kill 158 times as many people on 9/11, imagine what 1 could do with a nuke.

I don't care if there are a million terrorists. It is possible to kill every one of them. If we could perforate a few million Axis soldiers in WW2, we could do it again today.

Saddam lies about how bad America is, Bush proves he's right! He's got a way to correct it...leaving Iraq. Do you know how the common man of Iraq feels? He doesn't care! He's being opressed the same way he was under Saddam.

Post-war Iraq = Saddam's Iraq............LMAO

You don't like how we treat terrorist and militant inmates that were trying to kill our troops at Abu Ghraib? Fine, but at least we gave up the former regime's policy of rape, mutilation, and execution of kids during our administration. You've gotta give us credit for something.......

Does America even care to find out whether Iraq can govern itself or not? Let it atleast function as an independant country if you really mean democracy.

Do you care to find out what can happen to a country that doesn't have an effective national security apparatus and has hostile neighbors trying to take advantage of a power vacuum?

[Soeru]

Bush sucks, Kerry is a wanker. I no longer care for American politics other than the fact that they can be entertaining if one watches the Daily Show. I am 17, and I'm not a US citizen so I couldn't vote anyway. I went to see this concert in Pennsylvania which was sort of an anti-Bush movement to get the undecided states to vote for Kerry, and it featured Pearl Jam. Didn't care much for Eddie Vedder's speeches, though.

If I really cared about making a difference, Kerry would earn my vote. I don't think your country needs an ape in office for another four years to progress.

Edit: Of course Americans were hated well before Bush was in office. Here is the problem: Bush hasn't done shit to improve international relationships. He's only enfuriated middle Easterns even further after invading Iraq.

More examples of international-relation fuck-ups:Take a look at Kim-Jung-Il, Vladimir Putin, and countless other governors from small countries you've probably never heard of.

[brit]

I've been with Kerry since the beginning and I'm there with him now. Oh and did you guys hear about the FOX news allegations? Yeah as it turns out, they have been passing false Kerry quote to put republicans on top. I could care less about the shit going on in Iraq right now. I have repeatedly voiced myself on that front. But this is simply unforgivable. Republicans are starting to lose and they knew that they could lose to my man, and they got scared. So scared that they are trying to put him down by the most underhanded of methods. Fucking annoying. So yeah, Kerry gets my vote. Easy.

[Cyberxion]

Dude, Fox News has always been suspect. I'm not suprised that they'd pull this shit. They got thier own agenda going on....

[reagan80]

Dude, Fox News has always been suspect. I'm not suprised that they'd pull this shit. They got thier own agenda going on....

Now, you know how we felt before Fox came into existence and ended the liberal media empire's monopoly......

I've been with Kerry since the beginning and I'm there with him now. Oh and did you guys hear about the FOX news allegations? Yeah as it turns out, they have been passing false Kerry quote to put republicans on top. I could care less about the shit going on in Iraq right now. I have repeatedly voiced myself on that front. But this is simply unforgivable. Republicans are starting to lose and they knew that they could lose to my man, and they got scared. So scared that they are trying to put him down by the most underhanded of methods. Fucking annoying. So yeah, Kerry gets my vote. Easy.

Hmmmm.......What did Fox news do this time anyway?

BTW, what did you think of Rathergate?

[brit]

Now, you know how we felt before Fox came into existence and ended the liberal media empire's monopoly......

Call me uninformed, but what the fuck is so bad about being liberal? or moderate? or fucking communist, for that matter?

[Xaenn]

The media is not liberal...no matter how many times you say it...it will never be right...

Edit: Damn, Karragh quoted my typo

[karragh]

The media is not liberal...no many how many times you say it...it will never be right...

<---- nod of agreement


there is about one or two liberal stations, hardly the entire media..

[Fett aka hmm]

<---- nod of agreement


there is about one or two liberal stations, hardly the entire media..

What do you mean?


TV: CBS, NBC, ABC are all liberal.
Newspaper: Many, but most notably The New York Times are liberal

I would say the most moderate would be CNN or Fox.

You will prolly say Fox is conservative, that may be, but it is still more moderate than most.

[karragh]

What do you mean?


TV: CBS, NBC, ABC are all liberal.
Newspaper: Many, but most notably The New York Times are liberal

I would say the most moderate would be CNN or Fox.

You will prolly say Fox is conservative, that may be, but it is still more moderate than most.

okay, fair enough, if you want to say CBS, NBC, and ABC are liberal, can you find me an example or two of them being praticularly so, then i will se if i can find examples of fox being praticularly conservative....

oh, and i still don't think 3 tv stations counts as the whole media...