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Thread: Final Fantasy VIII ending plot analysis *MAJOR SPOILERS*

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    Default Final Fantasy VIII ending plot analysis *MAJOR SPOILERS*

    So in a few threads here, I've hinted that there's a lot more to FF8's plot than meets the eye, and figured I might as well spill the beans now. Here we go:

    *spoilers*


    Ultimecia is Rinoa.

    Have you let that sink in yet? Good.

    Now, the evidence:

    - Ultimecia's GF is Griever. But how is that possible? Griever is the name of the lion emblazoned on Squall's jewelry, which he practically made up on the spot to impress Rinoa. Unless, of course, the GF Griever was created in honor of Squall.
    - Where is Ultimecia's castle located? Over the flowering fields at Edea's orphanage. The place where Squall promises that he'd meet Rinoa if ever they get separated.
    - Sorceress' are immortal. They don't age, while everybody around them does. You'll see why this is significant in a moment.
    - Ultimecia has wings. Rinoa's sorceress powers manifested themselves as angel wings. Ultimecia's wings are black, however, possibly symbolizing how she has been corrupted.
    - The final is hard to tell because of the way that it's presented, but Ultimecia's facial structure in the ending cinematic closely resembles Rinoa.

    So the story goes like this:
    In the present, Rinoa falls madly in love with Squall. Then she is granted Edea's sorceress powers after defeating her in Galbadia Garden, which grants her inate immortality. Presumedly, in the current timeline, Rinoa and Squall get hitched, and live a happy life. But eventually Squall grows old, and dies, and Rinoa has her heart torn from her, and eventually she wallows in her own grief and sorrow. Unable to love properly, for fear of losing more people she cares for, she grows reclusive, and steadily insane. She learns how to manipulate time, eventually stumbling upon Ellone. She then realizes that her time magics, coupled with Ellone's ability to link the past and the present, would allow her to achieve time compression, and possibly reuniting her with her true love. I suppose that with time compression, since past, present, and future are all one, Squall wouldn't die either because his future would be his present, blah blah blah.

    Anyways, Rinoa's time magics only extend so far as being able to link herself through the various incarnations of her power, hence Edea. Ultimecia manipulates Edea to draw out Squall and the SeeD, along with Ellone. The problem is that she finds that she isn't powerful enough to bring about Time Compression. So she transfers Edea's powers to Rinoa (herself), and uses that body to resurrect Sorceress Adel. After Squall defeat Adel, her sorceress powers are transferred into Rinoa, and thus Ultimecia becomes doubly powerful, and can commence the compression of time.

    The premise is actually quite simple, as far as time travel/manipulation stories go. Seeing as how Final Fantasy VIII was touted as having a story based around love, it fits. Ultimecia's motivations are driven by her fanatical devotion to her lost love.

    The tricky part, however, is deciphering the rather cryptic ending. There's two ways that you can take it, physically, or metaphysically. If you take it physically, then the scenes ensuing can be assumed to be the unravelling of time, with Squall ending up in some sort of time crossroads, lost, until love's beacon shows him the way home. I think metaphysically though, it makes just a bit more sense. After you kill Ultimecia's first form, the rest of the battle takes place inside Squall's head, which could also help explain the presence of Griever (I mean, is it really possible for a Sorceress to create a GF?). After she is killed, in her waning moment, she tries to latch on to Squalls mind to preserve the last of their bond, but Squall fights back. The final blow dealt to Ultimecia True kills both Squall and Rinoa, because she is bonded to his mind. The hazy scenes of the ending cinematic show both of their lives "flashing" before Squalls eyes, as he dies. Then we see Ultimecia's powers being restored to Matron Edea (and presumedly, because time is compressed, this means all instances of those powers, even the one belonging to the present Rinoa, thus averting the situation from ever happening again). Time unravels, and everybody is restored to their proper place in time, except Squall, who is dying, as we see him collapse on the path to the afterlife. However, the power of Rinoa's love and his promise to meet her forms a strong power, and revives him.


    *end of spoilers*

    Hopefully, that cleared things up for some people. I might have left some details out, so if you notice any holes, just ask, and I'll probably be able to fill them in.

    Edit by Ace: Please use hidden for spoilers, threads do have to be moderated, and some of the mods / admins might have not completed the game, so use hidden instead, that way they can still read the entire thread, and mods / admins that did complete the game could check the hidden text.
    Last edited by Ace; 8th-February-2004 at 20:23.

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    Good version. Ill think about, but i have smth...

    - Squall says that his ring was made for him, not on his
    honor, so, maybe master who made it gave a name of Legendary GF to the ring.
    - Sorceress' are mortal, they age, they just pass their powers
    once in a generation
    - If Ultimecia's goal is love, then why she wanted
    world domination?
    - A whole part about Ultimecia using Ellone i think is a bit
    complicate and confusing.
    - I dont think that Ultimecia battle ever happend in Squall's
    head. How could others get in there? If u insist, maybe
    whole Ultimecia castle was in Squall's head ? (think about it)
    Or, maybe, a whole Time Compression?
    - So, if it wasnt in Squall's head, Ultimecia DOES owns a legendary GF Griever
    - Assuming all said above, MAYBE Ultimecia is Rinoa,
    if she is, then she's absolutely insane and has no common
    with normal Rinoa.
    And we dont have enough proofs to prove nor that
    Ultimecia is Rinoa, nor that she isnt.

    Just think what u want, i prefer version that _she_isnt_ (i Just like it more,and story seems more beautiful that way)

    And, also, this is what ill be thinking of next couple of weeks
    Because this version is very interesting.
    Just Think About It

    PS. Pardon my bad english
    Last edited by Ace; 8th-February-2004 at 20:25.

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    ... nah ...

    it's just impossible. ... or is it?

    here's my theory:

    Somewhere ingame it's said that Edea wasn't born a sorceres. after defeating Ultimetia, Squall gets thrown back into the past, and meet's matron. that's when edea get's her powers, & that's why ultimecia can transfer into her, because they have met. She can't transfer into Adell, because she never met her (besides the fact that Adell was imprisoned).
    Seifer asks: What is SEED? What does it mean? It means nothing. Squall told matron her future, & she did what she was told.
    There are several time-travel theories, 1 of them is: U can Not change the past no matter what. (note: Ellone actually says this in the game.)
    there is a sequnce in the ending fmv: when Rinoa was in space, she died! But it wasn't her time to die, so with the wonderfull time compression & Squall's love, she's revived & history remains unchanged. ...

    U migth be right about the Griever part.

    Ultimecia's castle above the flower field? It's only natural for everything to end, where it all began.

    Every "last boss" has wings (or can fly, or something...).
    Last edited by Ace; 8th-February-2004 at 20:24.
    ...

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    The whole interpretation of most of the battle being inside Squall's head was just my idea, because the whole sequence and movie thereafter are quite abstract, anyways, so it's just an idea. The fact that you still have other party members during the battle could signify how much Squall has accepted these people as his friends, to the point where he imagines them fighting along side him, giving him strength when he needs it.

    But where did it ever say that Ultimecia's goal was to dominate the world? Through the guise of Edea, she set in forth those plans to draw out Squall and SeeD, and after Edea was defeated, that line was simply dropped. Odine I think speculated that she might be trying to rule all of time, but what did he know of the situation, anyways?

    And I'm pretty certain that the game said that Sorceresses were immortal.

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    this is actually pretty good stuff.. i have no ideas of my own since i don't read btween the lines.. and i never saw the full ending because my disc started hanging right when laguna gives that chick the ring.. so i'm pretty lost.. but i have to play it again from scratch.. my mem card got formatted..

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    Originally posted by onetwo
    this is actually pretty good stuff.. i have no ideas of my own since i don't read btween the lines.. and i never saw the full ending because my disc started hanging right when laguna gives that chick the ring.. so i'm pretty lost.. but i have to play it again from scratch.. my mem card got formatted..
    Well, you didn't miss too much then. Probably just a few shots of the characters doing random things (did you see Seifer and the gang fishing at FH?). The only thing,

    is that that chick, Raine, died. A long time ago. The scene you mentioned is in the past, as Laguna proposed to her. It's then followed by him looking fondly at a headstone, engraved "Raine Loire". I think she died giving birth to Squall or something. Yes, Laguna and Raine are Squall's parents.

    After that, the credits roll, and we see some shots of a party in Balamb Garden, as Selphie films the gang. Irvine hits on girls (and gets reprimanded by Selphie ), Zell stuffs his face with hot dogs, it's pretty funny. After the credits roll, you're treated to a short clip of Balamb Garden floating across the ocean in the night, under a huge moon, and they share their (presumedly) first kiss together.

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    ahh.. well i saw the gang fishing.. seifer is cool when he wants to be.. and somewhere along the story i had the idea that laguna was squall's pappy.. and it stopped right when it shwed laguna walking up to the headstone..

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    Ace Guest

    Default Re: Final Fantasy VIII ending plot analysis *MAJOR SPOILERS*

    Edit by Ace: Please use hidden for spoilers, threads do have to be moderated, and some of the mods / admins might have not completed the game, so use hidden instead, that way they can still read the entire thread, and mods / admins that did complete the game could check the hidden text. [/B]
    Just to bring my edit to the attention . Added the hidden tags to the first few posts.

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    well that actually makes everything look prettier.. thanks ace..

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    Hmm.. Interesting theorys.. Can't really add more to those.. I'll have to play the game through again and see, if i can understand the story better

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    What am i certanly sure is that FF8 has more interesting
    ideas than we already discussed...

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    Sorry zero chance, I'm not totally convinced, I shouldn't really be discussing this as it's been a while since I played this game but I'm going to risk looking like a fool anyways as I have such high self esteem that no one here can think of an insult harsh enough to hurt me.

    """- Ultimecia's GF is Griever. But how is that possible? Griever is the name of the lion emblazoned on Squall's jewelry, which he practically made up on the spot to impress Rinoa. Unless, of course, the GF Griever was created in honor of Squall. """

    I THINK Griever was said to be a ledgendary/mythical GF, the strongest GF in the world and that was why squall carried its emblem around with him. It was his totem, just like people carry around charms with unicorns and such, it is a symbol they wish to represent themselves with.

    """"- Where is Ultimecia's castle located? Over the flowering fields at Edea's orphanage. The place where Squall promises that he'd meet Rinoa if ever they get separated.""""

    Sorry got no answer for that, ya got me there.

    """- Sorceress' are immortal. They don't age, while everybody around them does. You'll see why this is significant in a moment."""

    This seems sort of right because of the lengths that Laguna and co went to seal Adel's? (can't remember that sorceress' name sorry) powers, in that space base, remember they had that woman in some sort of ice thing. But then again there was that idea that a sorceress had to pass on their powers to a suitable candidate when they DIE, so maybe they were only immortal in the sense that if no one killed them they could theoretically live forever (i.e. vampires)?

    """- Ultimecia has wings. Rinoa's sorceress powers manifested themselves as angel wings. Ultimecia's wings are black, however, possibly symbolizing how she has been corrupted."""

    I thought that the whole wing thing had something to do with them both being sorceresses (try saying that word 3 times fast), but I could be wrong.

    """- The final is hard to tell because of the way that it's presented, but Ultimecia's facial structure in the ending cinematic closely resembles Rinoa."""

    Nope sorry that point is not worth debating as it is too unsure.

    Well the problem with this discussion is that I don't believe that we will ever have an answer, the great (IMO it is great, this is a terible thing IOPO?) thing about these Japanese RPGs is the very fact that not every question is answered properly thus giving us tons of loose ends and keeping us guessing forever. Just like a good book or film pretty much never has a clean cut ending with everything explained fully, these RPGs are the same. I've seen so many different interpretations on all sorts of games, books, films etc that I've come to the conclusion that no one and everyone is right, just get what you want out of the story and be prepared for some serious debate whenever you encounter someone else who is equally passionate about it.

    Interesting interpretation zero chance, I'm not sure if I'm converted but it adds another idea for me to consider, which is always welcome.
    Last edited by Ace; 11th-February-2004 at 20:43.
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    First of all, I don't like this theroy.

    Not that I'm trying to flame somene, just that I would hate to think of the "Witch" at the end of the game (that got a MAJOR beating) to be Rinoa.

    Maybe in Ultimicia's time she got her hands on Griver.

    Maybe she casted Draw on Squall and nded up with Griver. (She loves to blow away spells, doesn't she? Like the Holy you junctioned on to MaxHP?)

    She did not show any mercy to Rinoa the first time I played.

    I saw a lot of resemblence between Edea(normal) and Edea(icesicklehappy-evilmode). I don't see any resemblence
    of Rinoa in Ultimicia, any form.

    I'd love to see Rinoa in her own evil-sorceress form!
    Last edited by Ace; 11th-February-2004 at 20:44.

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    Damn it I hate FFVIII, but now this forum is going to make me go and play that whole game again anyway.
    (note I hated the gameplay, I quite enjoyed the plot)

    I wonder why the plot for FF8 is so much more complicated than your clean cut FF10 and 6 type of plots.
    I am in no way responsible for the above post. It was my hand's fault. Bad hand.
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    I love Final Fantasy VIII. Many people say they hated the plot. They aren't like me because I like openended mythical stories like that. I didn't really pay attention to it, but now that I remember I had a lot of similar ideas in the game. FFVIII has one of the best plot of any game I have played. I love all the "Inside Stories" in it.

    Your "theories" seem pretty close.
    If Ultimecia was Rinoa, why did she put up all the obsticles to stop Squall in the castle?

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