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Thread: Showing the love for Breath of Fire!

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elin View Post
    I really love this series! I actually like Dragon Quarter best of all, and still think it's one of the most interesting, different and memorable RPGs I've ever played. But I can definitely appreciate how it could be a very divisive game for many fans of the series, and I think that looking back, it might have been better to have released it free of the Breath of Fire name (I get the impression that the English localisation staff probably thought so too, given that they chose to drop the number 5 from the title for its Western release... ). While I think it was a fascinating reimagining and deconstruction of the series, gambling the brand name on a game that was almost guaranteed to polarize opinion from the outset was probably not the best move for Capcom. :'D Dragon Quarter aside, I think for me it's probably IV > II > III > I in terms of preference. But I like all of them to varying degrees.

    Also, really surprised at how harsh people are being on the English version of Breath of Fire IV in this thread. Putting aside a couple of issues (a handful of untranslated elements like the ending credits, opening movie and the Japanese title on the title screen) that were largely the result of the game being rushed to market for the holiday season, it's easily one of the PS1's more competent JRPG translations for me, with a mostly well written script that deftly deals with a number of relatively tricky pieces of made up terminology in Japanese (I love "Endless" as a translation for "Utsurowazaru Mono" ), and also puts a good amount of thought into how to give the English script its own flavour and character with things like Fou-Lu's faux old English, and the adoption of Korean as the language of the Endless in the English version to give them an identity removed from either Japanese or English (nearly all of the names of the dragons / their elemental spells in the English one are actually Korean words - "Hwa" means "Fire", "Bing" is "Ice", "P'ung Ryong" is "Wind Dragon", the "Yorae" in "Yorae Dragon" is a Korean Buddhist term referring to transcendence beyond the human condition, etc...).

    As for the censorship issue, I reaaaally don't think it's nearly as bad as is being made out. I played the game in both languages, and the only censorship change that I think is really significant is the one of a certain character's death, given that the scene transition in the English version does feel quite awkward once you know what was supposed to be there, and given that the scene did add something quite meaningful to the story. But even then, it's not something I even noticed in the English version until I played it in Japanese, so I don't think it's an enormous deal breaker. As for the rest... The three other scenes are fairly disposable sex jokes that don't serve to add much to the story, and which I actually think are a bit jarring in contrast to the game's general tone to begin with. The Scan ability wasn't one that was enormously useful in the Japanese version anyway, and they had a pretty good reason for cutting it (the text box simply isn't big enough to show all the elements in English, and would have required modification). And Scias's alcoholic slur becoming a stammer is a bit unnecessary, but really not that much worse than any number of JRPGs that have made similar changes to alcohol (heck games as prestigious as Final Fantasy VI and Chrono Trigger did it too, and arguably in far more goofy, less believable ways). Also a little surprised that it's IV's English localisation that is getting the most flak when Breath of Fire II, much as I love it, has a script that is easily one of the worst JRPG localisations in the history of gaming, and one that does pretty much everything that it's possible to do wrong in a translation. :'D Surely you can't give that a free pass if you're going to come down so hard on IV's comparatively minor issues?
    EH-heh-heh-hem..

    A) you may think the censorship is fine but i didnt neither do the japanese tbh. If you had REALLY played the japanese versions then you would have been more off put than ANY of the "jaring moments" we have talked about. The series is full of smut jokes since BoF 1, they are funny...it was a part of them, taking them out completey jarred it FOR ME as ive seen those scenes, i watched my friends import and play them...not seeing them ruined the experience for me because as usual, it ment a bunch of middle aged house wives stormed in said "THIS IS WRONG AND EVIL AND WONT SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!?!? (translation wont everyone PAY ATTENTION TO US!?!?!) But that doesn't matter right aslong as that 1% that DONT like the smut are satisfied? (sorry but ive about had enough of western censorship, it pisses me off).

    B) No one, at ANY point has been hard of BoF 4 in this thread, me and warrior have stated we are a bit meh at the cuts but it's still an ok game, just censored. What i will do now those is come down EXTRA HARD on Dragon Quarter as you seem to have ignored that fact EVERYONE dispises that here and THAT is what our hate is actually directed at XD BoF 5 is a pile of shit, with no depth (fnar fnar...all underground), a BADLY rushed story, TERRIBLE gameplay oh and taking away and PUNISHING the player for use of the dragon ability? I shall say it again: FUCK CAPCOM oh yeah it also didnt carry on from 4 its in its own isolated universe which means it has nothing to do with the BoF canon imo.

    C) ....I did say BoF 2's script was a crap translation, ITS TERRIBLE which is why i also said to people there is a daaaamn good translation mod thats been made, that i shall be handing out, which im sorry to say you will find TO jar'ing, it has all the smut jokes put back in HAD you have actually have played the japanese version and understood it, you'd know theres alot of those jokes in it, specialy between Katt and Nina that were ALL cut out.
    Last edited by Crash-Headroom; 16th-January-2017 at 15:59.
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    "B) No one, at ANY point has been hard of BoF 4 in this thread, me and warrior have stated we are a bit meh at the cuts but it's still an ok game, just censored. What i will do now those is come down EXTRA HARD on Dragon Quarter as you seem to have ignored that fact EVERYONE dispises that here and THAT is what our hate is actually directed at XD BoF 5 is a pile of shit, with no depth (fnar fnar...all underground), a BADLY rushed story, TERRIBLE gameplay oh and taking away and PUNISHING the player for use of the dragon ability? I shall say it again: FUCK CAPCOM oh yeah it also didnt carry on from 4 its in its own isolated universe which means it has nothing to do with the BoF canon imo.
    "

    Exactly bro, could not've typed it any better myself.
    I mean a game time limit because of kaiser coming out?. Traps for mobs?, ok must stop there or rage will kick in.

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    Gotta love the VERY FEW companies that ask for fan feedback to make a better sequel/game eh?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warrior View Post
    Gotta love the VERY FEW companies that ask for fan feedback to make a better sequel/game eh?
    See again i do and dont like that Warrior XD It depends on the company ya know? Some companies will just higher idiots that are more concerned with how guns look and sound because its to difficult to fix the bugs/mess the company has made, HL2 is a good example of that. ALL the beta testers valve got in were told "We have the bugs sorted (they didnt) we just want you to critique other stuff".......sooo the fans didnt like the gauss gun, mine and many other hl1 fan's favourite weapon..."fans" didnt like the hydra because "IT R TO HARD!!" (i am not taking the "it looked weird while fighting it" excuse, its because people were to dumb to learn how to beat it ) and "FANS" thought the bland non offencive, sterile, 1984 feel to the game was great (despite the fact there are about 20 hl2 beta mods in extisence and most fans beg valve to release the old assets...yeah fans REALLY liked it valve same as they liked episodic content and a lack of episode uhhh...what comes after 2? lol. Bethesda is another fine example of only highering people to complain about superficial stuff, thats why when the games come out "THEY JUST WORK" DON'T THEY TODD!? *breaks his sarcasm metre*

    Yeah if a games company properly listens to its fans then im right behind them but nowadays that seems to only be a handfull of indie groups (FTL is a good example of the guy listening to fans to perfect it with an update, same for terraria....starbound is another example of valve XD).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    Well, it's nice to not see only a big bof fan. But Breath of Fire IV.
    I found it one day, the green sleve over with him holding the sword up and fou lou in the background glaring.

    I noticed something very cool, very quickly. It had a combo system, unlike anything I had seen before "maybe at times, certain stf moves lol".
    Anyway, the more I played, more I loved it more than the rest. I even came to respect the high polygon count gfx, altho.. Synesta, the damn camera angles for the kids lol.. But overall not bad.

    For me it was the storyline, I liked it. Two halfs meeting to merge into the ultimate god, how it depends is down to your choices.
    Meanwhile with masters and higher enemy skills, the combo system is getting insane lol. So much you can do with that, like alot!.

    The stuff like final combo's: Supernova
    And the ability to control Kaiser if you have enough time

    And I guess thats why it's my favourite..
    Yeah, I was happy to see it getting some love in the first post of this thread too! I remember back in the day prevailing opinion seemed to be that it was inferior to III, but while I like III as well, I actually found IV to be the much more memorable of the two. I thought the whole cast was really likeable, with some very interesting character concepts and designs, and I agree that the central story of Ryu and Fou-Lu was really well done as well. ^^/ Fou-Lu, in particular, had some very strong character development despite his limited appearances, and I agree that it was a great choice to give the player the choice at the end of which of the two protagonists would decide the fate of people and the gods. Through the two stories, you get to see both the hopeful, optimistic side of the world that Ryu stands for, and the ugly, cruel side that Fou-Lu frequently encounters, and I thought both characters were very understandable and sympathetic by the end despite their vastly different solutions to the issues facing the world. I also thought the setting was very strong. I really liked the world and its lore, and appreciated the distinctly East Asian flavour of many aspects of the game's setting and aesthetics, which I thought set it apart from both the rest of the Breath of Fire series and many other JRPGs.

    I agree that the battle system was definitely really well done too, and I think it's still one of the best takes on a typical turn-based system out there. It does the basics pretty well, with loads that are fairly quick, animations that don't take too long, and battles that rarely drag in any major way. And the few twists it adds to the formula were done really well. The combo system was a great evolution of Phantasy Star IV's combination attack system, and it's one that I'm amazed that more developers haven't stolen / built upon since the game's release. And the rank / character swapping mechanic was actually very impressive for the time, being a much more polished and better realised version of what Final Fantasy X didn't do until a year later. The only thing I found a wee bit disappointing was the dragon transformations. The dragon gene system in III was a lot of fun, and I kind of wish they had kept and refined it. And while the dragon hybrid forms you could change into were super-cool, I thought it was a bit of a shame that you couldn't turn into actual dragons outside of the breath attacks. Was still lots of fun, though!

    Oh, and re: graphics, I actually thought it was a super-pretty game for the PS1! I remember it attracting quite a bit of criticism at the time for its move away from the bright, vibrant colours of III, and in screenshots it's arguably less impressive. But in motion, it's actually quite beautiful. :3 Like you say, the backgrounds are pretty high polygon, with 3-D work that's substantially better than a lot of similar "2-D sprites on 3-D backgrounds"-styled RPGs on the console. And the 2-D sprites are amazingly detailed and fluid for the time. I was so impressed at the amount of frames in even simple things like Ryu's victory animation, and the number of totally unique animations there are that were made for just one event or story moment. The camera angles could definitely be a bit of a pain at times, but it was kind of a problem with all games that used that style of presentation on the PS1. :'D And for the most part, I found it a lot easier to navigate than, say, Xenogears or Grandia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crash-Headroom View Post
    EH-heh-heh-hem..

    A) you may think the censorship is fine but i didnt neither do the japanese tbh. If you had REALLY played the japanese versions then you would have been more off put than ANY of the "jaring moments" we have talked about. The series is full of smut jokes since BoF 1, they are funny...it was a part of them, taking them out completey jarred it FOR ME as ive seen those scenes, i watched my friends import and play them...not seeing them ruined the experience for me because as usual, it ment a bunch of middle aged house wives stormed in said "THIS IS WRONG AND EVIL AND WONT SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!?!? (translation wont everyone PAY ATTENTION TO US!?!?!) But that doesn't matter right aslong as that 1% that DONT like the smut are satisfied? (sorry but ive about had enough of western censorship, it pisses me off).

    B) No one, at ANY point has been hard of BoF 4 in this thread, me and warrior have stated we are a bit meh at the cuts but it's still an ok game, just censored. What i will do now those is come down EXTRA HARD on Dragon Quarter as you seem to have ignored that fact EVERYONE dispises that here and THAT is what our hate is actually directed at XD BoF 5 is a pile of shit, with no depth (fnar fnar...all underground), a BADLY rushed story, TERRIBLE gameplay oh and taking away and PUNISHING the player for use of the dragon ability? I shall say it again: FUCK CAPCOM oh yeah it also didnt carry on from 4 its in its own isolated universe which means it has nothing to do with the BoF canon imo.

    C) ....I did say BoF 2's script was a crap translation, ITS TERRIBLE which is why i also said to people there is a daaaamn good translation mod thats been made, that i shall be handing out, which im sorry to say you will find TO jar'ing, it has all the smut jokes put back in HAD you have actually have played the japanese version and understood it, you'd know theres alot of those jokes in it, specialy between Katt and Nina that were ALL cut out.
    A) I never said that smut was objectively bad. There are stories that those kind of jokes really work for, and I had no problem at all with them in the generally more playful, light hearted stories of the previous games. I just didn't think that that kind of gag was a particularly good fit for 4's more sombre tone, and personally felt that the game was better off without the jokes that were cut. Of course your mileage may vary there, and I only said that I thought that they were jarring, not that they were objectively so. But I think regardless of how good a fit you think they are for the story, arguing that their absence ruined the game in any way is a huge exaggeration.

    I'd agree that it's a shame that content was cut, given that whether I liked the jokes or not, they were part of the original writer's vision for the game and should have been retained. And I can understand some people not wanting to play the English version on principle out of an opposition to censorship in general. But looking purely at content, you're really not losing very much at all, and I can't get behind the argument that the English version is ruined in any way. The game doesn't become vastly different without those scenes, and it doesn't wind up as an enormously inferior product (like, say, the English PS1 version of Persona, where an entire story branch was cut). There's still plenty of humour in there, so it's not like cutting a few comedic scenes turns the story into a total downer or anything. Like I said in my post, the only really significant cut from a story point of view is the extension to the death scene. And even then, it's not something I even noticed on my original run through the English version. In short, I think there's a credible argument to be made for the English version being redundant if you speak Japanese, but I don't think there's one to be made for it being bad on its own merits.

    B) I never said people were being too hard on the game itself. Just on the English localisation. I never said anything about criticisms made of the game itself (which have been very minor, and not at all unmerited - your own criticism that it's a bit on the short side, for example, is actually one I'd agree with). As for Dragon Quarter, I made no argument that it was the best game in the series, nor that people here were being too hard on it. I just said that it was my own favourite. Actually, I made it quite clear that I understand that it's not for every fan of the series, and stated that I think it might have been better if it was released without the Breath of Fire name. So I'm not going to argue with your dislike of the game at all. I apologise if my mention of liking Dragon Quarter most sounded argumentative. It wasn't something I was looking to debate at all, as I know it's an enormously divisive game, and can understand where the hate comes from even if I'm on the opposite side of the fence.

    C) I know it was mentioned, but it was largely in passing, and seemed to be being nowhere near as heavily critiqued as IV's localisation, which struck me as odd given that I've always considered II's translation to be one of those that genuinely does come close to spoiling the game (I abandoned it when I first played it in English because of just how bad the script was, and only came around to how good the game was years later when I tried it in Japanese). I'm also aware of the retranslation / modification patch, which looks like a fantastic piece of work! But at the same time, it doesn't really excuse just how bad the original translation was (particularly as Capcom still haven't released a fixed translation despite multiple opportunities, and there is still no official version of the game with a passable English translation), and it seemed odd to me that the localisation being savaged the most was IV's rather than II's.

    Oh, and I'm not going to argue over whether or not I've really played the Japanese versions of the games, since it's just my word against yours, and there's no way for either of us to prove it. I will say, however, that it's pretty well known to many longterm members here that I've studied Japanese since about 2005, that I majored in the language, that I've lived in the country, that I make a living as a Japanese to English translator, and that I rarely if ever play games in English anymore. So I don't see any particular reason to doubt that I would have played a series I really like in its original language, short of wishing to discredit my opinion on the quality of BoFIV's localisation. You're free to disagree with that opinion if you wish, but it's a little childish to accuse me of being a liar with no real basis, and plenty of evidence to the contrary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crash-Headroom View Post
    See again i do and dont like that Warrior XD It depends on the company ya know? Some companies will just higher idiots that are more concerned with how guns look and sound because its to difficult to fix the bugs/mess the company has made, HL2 is a good example of that. ALL the beta testers valve got in were told "We have the bugs sorted (they didnt) we just want you to critique other stuff".......sooo the fans didnt like the gauss gun, mine and many other hl1 fan's favourite weapon..."fans" didnt like the hydra because "IT R TO HARD!!" (i am not taking the "it looked weird while fighting it" excuse, its because people were to dumb to learn how to beat it ) and "FANS" thought the bland non offencive, sterile, 1984 feel to the game was great (despite the fact there are about 20 hl2 beta mods in extisence and most fans beg valve to release the old assets...yeah fans REALLY liked it valve same as they liked episodic content and a lack of episode uhhh...what comes after 2? lol. Bethesda is another fine example of only highering people to complain about superficial stuff, thats why when the games come out "THEY JUST WORK" DON'T THEY TODD!? *breaks his sarcasm metre*

    Yeah if a games company properly listens to its fans then im right behind them but nowadays that seems to only be a handfull of indie groups (FTL is a good example of the guy listening to fans to perfect it with an update, same for terraria....starbound is another example of valve XD).
    Feedback just helps give the actual fans what they should expect and not just this ,



    Why would some CallBro be playing Breath of Fire anyway?
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    "Yeah, I was happy to see it getting some love in the first post of this thread too! I remember back in the day prevailing opinion seemed to be that it was inferior to III, but while I like III as well, I actually found IV to be the much more memorable of the two. I thought the whole cast was really likeable, with some very interesting character concepts and designs, and I agree that the central story of Ryu and Fou-Lu was really well done as well. ^^/ Fou-Lu, in particular, had some very strong character development despite his limited appearances, and I agree that it was a great choice to give the player the choice at the end of which of the two protagonists would decide the fate of people and the gods. Through the two stories, you get to see both the hopeful, optimistic side of the world that Ryu stands for, and the ugly, cruel side that Fou-Lu frequently encounters, and I thought both characters were very understandable and sympathetic by the end despite their vastly different solutions to the issues facing the world. I also thought the setting was very strong. I really liked the world and its lore, and appreciated the distinctly East Asian flavour of many aspects of the game's setting and aesthetics, which I thought set it apart from both the rest of the Breath of Fire series and many other JRPGs.

    I agree that the battle system was definitely really well done too, and I think it's still one of the best takes on a typical turn-based system out there. It does the basics pretty well, with loads that are fairly quick, animations that don't take too long, and battles that rarely drag in any major way. And the few twists it adds to the formula were done really well. The combo system was a great evolution of Phantasy Star IV's combination attack system, and it's one that I'm amazed that more developers haven't stolen / built upon since the game's release. And the rank / character swapping mechanic was actually very impressive for the time, being a much more polished and better realised version of what Final Fantasy X didn't do until a year later. The only thing I found a wee bit disappointing was the dragon transformations. The dragon gene system in III was a lot of fun, and I kind of wish they had kept and refined it. And while the dragon hybrid forms you could change into were super-cool, I thought it was a bit of a shame that you couldn't turn into actual dragons outside of the breath attacks. Was still lots of fun, though!

    Oh, and re: graphics, I actually thought it was a super-pretty game for the PS1! I remember it attracting quite a bit of criticism at the time for its move away from the bright, vibrant colours of III, and in screenshots it's arguably less impressive. But in motion, it's actually quite beautiful. :3 Like you say, the backgrounds are pretty high polygon, with 3-D work that's substantially better than a lot of similar "2-D sprites on 3-D backgrounds"-styled RPGs on the console. And the 2-D sprites are amazingly detailed and fluid for the time. I was so impressed at the amount of frames in even simple things like Ryu's victory animation, and the number of totally unique animations there are that were made for just one event or story moment. The camera angles could definitely be a bit of a pain at times, but it was kind of a problem with all games that used that style of presentation on the PS1. :'D And for the most part, I found it a lot easier to navigate than, say, Xenogears or Grandia."

    Oh god, thats me happy

    Few things.
    I agree, I would've loved to have seen the whole dragon.
    But due to the way BOF4 works with the party mechanics all on screen at, well not at same time but very close. Im not 100% sure how easy that would've been for them.

    Altho, the floating half dragon was cool.
    There was 3 endings to BOF4. Also, stealing the dragon tear <3 and getting royal armor, hell yes! too!.
    I only feel the camera work was abit clumsy in certain area's, but again.. That was only synesta and the damn games that kid kept playing.

    So wanted to slap him lol, thirsty guard always could be abit of a dick lol.

    Right, now let me settle this once and for all..


    Dragon Quater:

    First off, it's an original game. And if it was in it's own light, it might of done well.
    But my big fecking beef is that it's now and always will be known as bof5!!!
    Just hell no, lets look at this deeper. It's more of a sci-fi that fantasy, fact.

    You get punished for not just being a dragon, but also kaiser about to rip through the whole damn building?. I mean come on people!.
    You had a good thing going with bof 4, and if you wanted even more time past. Then maybe drag bof5 into camelot times, or you know what I mean. Ahead but not damn sci-fi..

    On top of that, Ryu is NOT ryu, not as we've come to know and love him. He looks like some emo kid from the wii or something.
    Nope, just nope. Nina was close to the original bof's, but they managed to sci-fi her up as well, like damn!

    If that game was like you said, seperate and NOT has the word bof5 on it, zero problems. Hell, I might of just even tried a shot of it myself.
    And that is where I stand on that.

    Bof6, well.. Well played capcom, you've just gut punched me and every bof fan out there for ever thinking a real bof would be back, you bunch of money grabbing pieces of ****.
    Dead, nail on final coffin. So im calling it, for all the bof fans. Bof ended at 4.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    Dead, nail on final coffin. So im calling it, for all the bof fans. Bof ended at 4.
    Hence the whole homage bit from me, that is all we are going to see nowadays or just gather creative minds and start our own project for a original yet familiar classic style RPG with all the bells and whistles........that happens to take fundage and quite a bit of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warrior View Post
    I'm sure a quality indie homage to BoF and other classics would go a long way for those who long for the good old days.
    I feel the end result would only be more overhyped titles like Pier Solar which end up being mediocre at best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldred View Post
    I feel the end result would only be more overhyped titles like Pier Solar which end up being mediocre at best.
    Pier Solar is decent but it needed way more effort honestly.
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    Elin, we gonna' need to agree to disagree on the likes and dislikes but i apolagise for the calling you a liar, I am so used to jumping on the defencive round people on the net XD but again I never said BoF IV is outright terrible nor that i have much critisism, i just said im sick of the smallest little thing being cut out due to it offending someone mostly afraid of their own bodies. I have no other critisism on it really other than the fact i don't rate it as high as 2 or 3 due to it not being that long and completed relitively quickly....oh and i didn't like the look of the dragons I prefered big mean and grinny to cutsey poo but still a good game
    Spoiler warning:
    however it will never beat BoF 3's ancient alien's story line for me, i loved that the writers went there

    BUT I SHALL NEVER TAKE BACK MY WORDS ABOUT DRAGON QAURTER IT ISN'T A GAME ON ANY LEVEL!! (But https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_5C8JIYmlE atleast that track is amazingly amazing).

    Also Ryu, lol XD I have been playing grandia recently. Havent completed it since i bought it so everything has been great to chuckle over again.....except for hearing and reading "but you know" from literally EVERYONE .
    Spoiler warning:

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  13. #42
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    But you know, I played grandia 1 or 2? on the DC.

    It's the one that starts off with a bird flying over a jungle/forest.
    I liked that game..
    Until Kaiser came in on what can only be described as a bad mood indeed and fried everyone lol.

    I can't remember, was it lvl 90 or certain mini games points to control him. I think it's either..

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    Ah I have not tried 2 (though i bought it for a ton of RPG fans i know for christmas on steam XD), so while they are all on 2 and smugly smiling playing 1 ^^...on an emulator they can't possibly understand....in a universe they can't possibly fathom o.o.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warrior View Post
    Hence the whole homage bit from me, that is all we are going to see nowadays or just gather creative minds and start our own project for a original yet familiar classic style RPG with all the bells and whistles........that happens to take fundage and quite a bit of it.

    Well, I don't have any programming skills. My artwork, it blah.
    However, I do know bof. And i've always wanted to write up a real bof5 story, I would be good at that bit.

    The game would have to be a western, But I could put touches on that to make it feel more like home.
    I might just do something like write a story for a new bof anyway, if damn hands and arms were not shot to hell via, well..
    That Dragon Tear is mines bitch!


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    I had no idea that the PSP version of Breath of Fire 3 was on PSN. Saved me the cost of importing a physical copy from Europe.

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