Patriotism or death?

This thread is not about the poll, nor my little tale(end of post), I just added them as a little side dish for this discussion.

Here's some stuff to discuss:

• Would you agree with something as radical as "you're either a patriot, or you're with the terrorists"? (obviously talking about the US)
• Should army service be mandatory?
• Are the advertisement and recruiting campaigns in the US for the army a little too much?

Here's a little story that happened to me recently.

A classmate in my History class happened to know one of the three US marines that were visiting my school on that day(she once attended the same school). So the three marines come in, the girl previously in my school, another girl, and a young guy that would stand like a rock and not say much(apparently most members of the army are teenagers...).

They babbled on for a few minutes about the benefits and stuff that you can do if you join the marines. Discipline, college funds, boot camp supposedly being fun, etc. She asked if anyone knew what they were doing after high school, a question which no one responded to, since people in my school don't seem to know what the fuck they want to do with their lives, even seniors(I am the only senior in my History class, btw).

The speaker happened to pick on me and ask what my plans were. So I told her I wanted to study Chemical Engineering at Stevens Institute(at which I've been admitted), then she asked about my test scores(which were good), and how I planned to pay for college(federal student aid covers my ass). I told her all this before she had anything to suggest that I should join the army for such benefits.

She tried to persuade me by saying that chemistry plays a big role in the armed forces, she described the gas-mask trainings in boot-camp, which just made me laugh and give me an urge to tell her to fuck off. But she insisted, asking why I wouldn't like to join the army, questioning my every response with "Why?" and "Why not?". Now I'm not sure if I can tell any member of the armed forces to fuck off and get away with it, I think it would have the same consequences from telling a cop to go fuck himself, so I kept quiet... besides, my teacher was present, and I've already been sent to the office enough times this year. I also felt like telling them that I didn't want to take part in any bloodshed nor fight for a country that isn't even mine(I had already told the douchebag that I was a natural-born Spaniard, and she still insisted).

The marine even tried to set up an appointment so she could give me more info on joining the marines. I refused to give her my contact information but she still kept bugging. I was going to be late to my next class, so I mispelled my last name and gave her a fake phone number on her business card so she would fuck off(I hear those army mofos call you endlessly). Har har. Jesus, I've never met someone so persistent in my lifetime...

Has anyone ever had such annoying encounters with recruiters?






I just want to make this thread as open and detailed as possible. Discuss your abhorrance of war, share stories like mine, etc.




So yeah, fuck the army. :wacko:

I've only seen one "recruiting" session at school, and it was three tough guys (hot tough guys) in their.. uniforms, talking and sharing their experiences in Israel, Afghanistan, etc. and how it was pretty fun most of the time, etc. but.. Yeah, definitely no pushiness like you seem to have been givin.


lol Canadian army lol

Hmmm, I don't recall being harassed by any "pushy" people from the Armed Forces. Now, people like Mormons (morons) and other religious types are real pushy when it comes to them wanting you to join their church. With those types, I did the exact same thing as Soeru did, I gave them a fake name and address or whatever. Yes, they wanted my friggin address. Why? So they could have a big bus pick me up to take me to church. Fuck that shit...

No joining the military shouldnt be mandatory and in which case its not otherwise we would still have the draft.

and just to clear this up. someone in the *Army* is trying to get recruits for the *Marines*? thats a little odd.

and no i dont think the rectruiting campaigns on tv are pushy in any way

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Originally Posted by Uncle Evil

No joining the military shouldnt be mandatory and in which case its not otherwise we would still have the draft.

and just to clear this up. someone in the *Army* is trying to get recruits for the *Marines*? thats a little odd.

and no i dont think the rectruiting campaigns on tv are pushy in any way

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Did I miss something here? Soeru said they were marines, not from the Army.

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Originally Posted by Schutzstaffel

I've only seen one "recruiting" session at school, and it was three tough guys (hot tough guys) in their.. uniforms, talking and sharing their experiences in Israel, Afghanistan, etc. and how it was pretty fun most of the time, etc. but.. Yeah, definitely no pushiness like you seem to have been givin.


lol Canadian army lol

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The army is alright if it's completely one's own choice, it might be fun. Hell, I might even do it if I wasn't so lazy, but I'm not joining the army if the nation is at war every 10 years or so... oh yeah, did I mention that I am not American?

Canadian army... lol indeed. What is the uniform like?

oh im sorry i was getting it mixed up with his last question in the top "Are the advertisement and recruiting campaigns in the US for the army a little too much?"

Canada has an Army? Huh? Why? What's the point?

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Originally Posted by Akuma

Did I miss something here? Soeru said they were marines, not from the Army.

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Marines are land troops. Foot soldiers. The type that shoot other people with assault rifles, trip over mines, get run over tanks, and get captured by the enemy and tortured. Army... marines... same shite.

Marines have nothing to do with the Navy. Navy... now those dudes operate subs, boats, etc. unless you're a Nave SEAL, which is like an uberl33t spec-ops... uh, guy.

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Originally Posted by Soeru

oh yeah, did I mention that I am not American?

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I realy dont see what your nationality has to do with it. If you live in the US legaly it IS your country. So i dont think that is realy a valid reason to not join the military and fight for your country in which you live in. im not trying to argue with you about this i just dont see how that is a valid reason to not join oh and if you are lazy just join the air force :P

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Originally Posted by Soeru

Canadian army... lol indeed. What is the uniform like?

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Digital Camo.

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Canada has an Army? Huh? Why? What's the point?

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UN operations, and saving kittens.

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Originally Posted by Uncle Evil

I realy dont see what your nationality has to do with it. If you live in the US legaly it IS your country. So i dont think that is realy a valid reason to not join the military and fight for your country in which you live in. im not trying to argue with you about this i just dont see how that is a valid reason to not join oh and if you are lazy just join the air force :P

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I reside legally in the US with a green card, immigration papers. But I am by no means American, my passport is Spanish, and my ID is Spanish. And guess what, if military service was still mandatory in Spain, I'd have to go. It's stupid to join the armed forces of a country you weren't even born and raised in, nor support its politician...

Oh and yeah, the Air Force sounds right for me. :P

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Originally Posted by Soeru

Marines are land troops. Foot soldiers. The type that shoot other people with assault rifles, trip over mines, get run over tanks, and get captured by the enemy and tortured. Army... marines... same shite.

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HAHA no there is a difference between the two there is a saying "The Marines, First to go Last to know" the Army is just there basicaly as backup to the Marines

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Originally Posted by Soeru

I reside legally in the US with a green card, immigration papers. But I am by no means American, my passport is Spanish, and my ID is Spanish. And guess what, if military service was still mandatory in Spain, I'd have to go. It's stupid to join the armed forces of a country you weren't even born and raised in, nor support its politician...

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and yes that does make sense i thought you were just flat out american didnt know you were just here with a green card

Fuck no. That's the same as the draft or how China used to be. Or how China still is. I'm not too sure, and I can't be arsed to look it up. Joining the military should be a right, not a mandate. It should be a sign of bravery, not a required part of life. While I may sound as idealistic as the next cloudy-headed person, you have to think about it from other people's perspectives. Even the most patriotic people didn't join the military and never will. Just my stance.

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Originally Posted by Soeru

Marines are land troops. Foot soldiers. The type that shoot other people with assault rifles, trip over mines, get run over tanks, and get captured by the enemy and tortured. Army... marines... same shite.

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Um, no, not the same thing. Marines can be crazy mofos, and I don't think the marines really think too highly of the Army guys.

Army= all the mofos sent to war. Last I recall, a marine wasn't the same thing as a National Guard member...

Edit: SS, please elaborate a bit more on the uniform, as in like colors and such. Thought digital camo sounds cool, I don't think anything can beat the sexiness of the German Schutzstaffel's uniforms. ;) Those old drawings of yours point that out nicely.

Endemic is right, and Soeru, if you don't support anything about America, then why the fuck are you here then? One thing I cannot stand is foreigners who come here and act like this place sucks. Some things do, but it's better than most other countries. The way I see it, if you don't like it here, get off my soil...

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Originally Posted by Akuma

Um, no, not the same thing. Marines can be crazy mofos, and I don't think the marines really think too highly of the Army guys.

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Yeah in my opinion Marines are better than the Army because they are as i said before first to go last to know they HAVE to follow orders without needing explanations and they are just flat out IMO more brave. I have a friend that is in the Marines and a friend that is in the Army and i see so much more disipline in Matt (the Marine guy) than i do in Richy (Army guy)

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Originally Posted by Akuma

Um, no, not the same thing. Marines can be crazy mofos, and I don't think the marines really think too highly of the Army guys.

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To the Marines, members of the Army are pansies. Think of it this way, if you are a Marine, you are a Marine. If you are in the Army, you are simply in the Army. Marines have this elitist attitude most of the time because of this. In the Army, you train to be a soldier, a part of your team. In the Marines, you train to be a weapon, an extension of your rifle. My cousin is a Marine. I know how it is. Another thing: If you finish your contract in the Army, you are finished. You will ALWAYS be a Marine.

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Originally Posted by Endemic

To the Marines, members of the Army are pansies. Think of it this way, if you are a Marine, you are a Marine. If you are in the Army, you are simply in the Army. Marines have this elitist attitude most of the time because of this. In the Army, you train to be a soldier, a part of your team. In the Marines, you train to be a weapon, an extension of your rifle.

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Damn straight. Semper FI!!!

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Originally Posted by Endemic

To the Marines, members of the Army are pansies. Think of it this way, if you are a Marine, you are a Marine. If you are in the Army, you are simply in the Army. Marines have this elitist attitude most of the time because of this. In the Army, you train to be a soldier, a part of your team. In the Marines, you train to be a weapon, an extension of your rifle.

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I couldnt have said it better. :bounce:

I wish I had a Marine right now.

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Originally Posted by Schutzstaffel

I wish I had a Marine right now.

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I thought you were a dude. And if you are does that last comment mean you're gay, and if so, doesn't that contradict your Nazi background?

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Originally Posted by Schutzstaffel

I wish I had a Marine right now.

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Im on my way :hourglass

:grazy:I need to get out of here:grazy:

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Originally Posted by Akuma

I thought you were a dude. And if you are does that last comment mean you're gay, and if so, doesn't that contradict your Nazi background?

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Last time I checked, I didn't have a penis. So no, that doesn't contradict my "Nazi background."

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Im on my way

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I'm eager too see that rifle extension of yours. ;)

haha ill bring my "sharpie"

but yeah anyway back on topic...

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Originally Posted by Akuma

Endemic is right, and Soeru, if you don't support anything about America, then why the fuck are you here then? One thing I cannot stand is foreigners who come here and act like this place sucks. Some things do, but it's better than most other countries. The way I see it, if you don't like it here, get off my soil...

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Read my first post, the 2nd bullet. So you're either with this country or your an enemy, is that right? Hard-headed nativists...

If you read my posts carefully, you might realize that I have not bashed the US the slightest bit. I don't support your politician, I don't believe in war, and I don't think that the US nor its people suck. That feeling of superiority you have towards other countries... have you ever traveled abroad?

I like this country because of how easy and quick it is to get anything done. Lack of free medical security is certainly a drawback, but the US has a ton of liberties we can all abuse. Living in NJ is alright but I prefer my hometown. Not everyone can afford to live in NYC...

I came to this country for many reasons, I no longer have a place to stay in my home country so I must live with my brother. But most importantly college, there are many reasons I shouldn't attend one in Spain(the colleges are great and free, but I cannot pass the entrance exams with my level, and getting your degree in Spain is very hard, the classes are mad tougher than in the US).

Stop being such an obnoxious xenophobe.

Ah well then. I don't have a "feeling of superiority towards other countries", I merely said that in some ways it's better here, some ways it's not. I don't necessarily support war, but I do support the troops who fight for what they believe in, and are willing to die to further such a cause. How could anyone not respect that?

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Originally Posted by Akuma
Endemic is right, and Soeru, if you don't support anything about America, then why the fuck are you here then? One thing I cannot stand is foreigners who come here and act like this place sucks. Some things do, but it's better than most other countries. The way I see it, if you don't like it here, get off my soil...

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Umm...sir, it's a little harder than you might like to think. You can't suddenly just decide to move. It takes money. Fuck, I wish I had the money to leave the country I live in, but I don't. It takes even more money to find work in a place where you move. All those Refugees who come to the US can't complain? If there are worse places than here, you can't complain, yeah?
I'm in a concentration camp, hypothetically. There are worse places to be than in a concentration camp, like dead. Therefore, I shouldn't complain about the Concentration Camp, or if I do, I leave.

NO! You can't complain...now off to the gas chamber you go!:P

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Originally Posted by Akuma

Ah well then. I don't have a "feeling of superiority towards other countries", I merely said that in some ways it's better here, some ways it's not. I don't necessarily support war, but I do support the troops who fight for what they believe in, and are willing to die to further such a cause. How could anyone not respect that?

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Did you know that they used to give soldiers classes and lectures to inform them why they're fighting? Most of the American soldiers that went over to WWII had no idea what they were fighting for, other than freedom(which was true, but they had no clear idea of what was really going on). As much as I love my country, I wouldn't die for it. I mean if you love your country so much, you would want to live in it and watch your children grow up and live a fulfilling life in your nation, not get killed during a war and having your name engraved in a big slab of stone in a commemorative park that no one ever visits. That's not what a soldier wants... they're people just like you, they just have their emotions all mixed up if they would really die for their country. Honoranle, yes, very. Reasonable, no. ;)

Well I doubt that things are now the way they were in WWII, that was a long time ago and not forgotten.

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Originally Posted by Akuma

Well I doubt that things are now the way they were in WWII, that was a long time ago and not forgotten.

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I think this is where I should say that the education system has been getting worse over the years. Sure, the times are different, but some people just don't know what's happening outside of their little town or state, not just in the US you know.

Well it's 1:30AM and I have to get up at 6AM for school, so I'm off. Good night to all, I'm calling it quits for today, I shall return.

well, this soldier's gonna ignore all the marine BS floating around this thread, but im still gonna post my opinion on the topic.

first bullet: disagree. you have a right to think how you want. im pretty sure this idea of thinking is how dictatorships get ste up. think like hte masses, or be persecuted.

second bullet: agree. the military's done soome great stuff for me, as far as me as a person. im not going to college, even though i could. the military (notice im not saying just the army) experience is truly unique, it gets you in shape, it teaches you how to follow orders (like listening to your boss) it teaches you how to work as a team, how to get things done, etc. i think everyone should at least be made to go through initial entry training in the service of their choice. maybe a 4-year enlistment. that way people could see what its like to be in uniform, and have a better understanding. yes, ive been spit on as a soldier, and yes, i wish the people like that were in my shoes.

third bullet: yes, with some exceptions. theres a quota recruiters have to meet iirc. sometimes they have to take extreme measures when getting people to sign up. however soeru, i think the people who went to your school went about it wrong. you know what youre doing next. they shouldve left you alone. but basically, they have to sell the service to you, and its a hard sell.

I don't think it should be mandatory for a single person to get in uniform, that would make us a military nation. As good as the military is, the cons to that kind of nation aren't good enough to pass. Of course there's exceptions to it, but at that point, it wouldn't matter, and you'd probably be better off joining than being blown up as a civilian. But those would be severe circumstances.

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Edit: SS, please elaborate a bit more on the uniform, as in like colors and such. Thought digital camo sounds cool, I don't think anything can beat the sexiness of the German Schutzstaffel's uniforms. Those old drawings of yours point that out nicely.

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They look like American uniforms. Except they have velcro stuff on them, and their camo is.. I can't really describe it except for saying "a smaller print", but it's pixilated, so they can blend more easily in lush backgrounds.

It's hideous, and you're right- nothing beats the old SS uniform.

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Originally Posted by Soeru

A classmate in my History class happened to know one of the three US marines that were visiting my school on that day(she once attended the same school). So the three marines come in, the girl previously in my school, another girl, and a young guy that would stand like a rock and not say much(apparently most members of the army are teenagers...).

They babbled on for a few minutes about the benefits and stuff that you can do if you join the marines. Discipline, college funds, boot camp supposedly being fun, etc. She asked if anyone knew what they were doing after high school, a question which no one responded to, since people in my school don't seem to know what the fuck they want to do with their lives, even seniors(I am the only senior in my History class, btw).

The speaker happened to pick on me and ask what my plans were. So I told her I wanted to study Chemical Engineering at Stevens Institute(at which I've been admitted), then she asked about my test scores(which were good), and how I planned to pay for college(federal student aid covers my ass). I told her all this before she had anything to suggest that I should join the army for such benefits.

She tried to persuade me by saying that chemistry plays a big role in the armed forces, she described the gas-mask trainings in boot-camp, which just made me laugh and give me an urge to tell her to fuck off. But she insisted, asking why I wouldn't like to join the army, questioning my every response with "Why?" and "Why not?". Now I'm not sure if I can tell any member of the armed forces to fuck off and get away with it, I think it would have the same consequences from telling a cop to go fuck himself, so I kept quiet... besides, my teacher was present, and I've already been sent to the office enough times this year. I also felt like telling them that I didn't want to take part in any bloodshed nor fight for a country that isn't even mine(I had already told the douchebag that I was a natural-born Spaniard, and she still insisted).

The marine even tried to set up an appointment so she could give me more info on joining the marines. I refused to give her my contact information but she still kept bugging. I was going to be late to my next class, so I mispelled my last name and gave her a fake phone number on her business card so she would fuck off(I hear those army mofos call you endlessly). Har har. Jesus, I've never met someone so persistent in my lifetime...

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America, fuck yeah!

i say, choose patriotism if you are american, choose death if you are canadian. you guys feel so tied to your country, but we're not up here in the north. i think that canadians have more freedom than americans in terms of this sort of thing, although our government really REALLY SUCKS.

^ Are you kidding? Most Canadians are very patriotic, and.. tend to think they're better than Americans.