Who do you want be the next president of the USA?

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Originally posted by MasJ
reagan80, hmm.. not meaning to burst your bubble or anything.. but ...

Correct me if I'm wrong, which I'm sure I must be, but wasn't it the US who dropped a nuclear bomb on Hiroshima on 6th August 1945 and on Nagasaki 8th August 1945 ?
Ofcourse, that doesn't count as antagonizing, since in your words it probably was a "rightous" course of action "benefitting" the people of Japan, and in "agreement" with them.

Sure, you think that the Vietnam war when a host country rejected your "goodwill" ? Interesting...

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The Japanese started that war with us and we just finished it on OUR terms. Back then, the Japanese thought their emperor was GOD and were more than willing to die for him. The US was worried about the invasion of Japan being long and bloody due to these fanatics. They estimated that an invasion of Japan would result in millions of American AND Japanese deaths.

Which would you choose?
1. Americans launch an invasion of Japan without using nuclear weapons. The war lasts longer. Millions of American troops and Japanese people die in the bitter fighting and resulting humanitarian crises.
2. Americans use nuclear weapons and force Japan to surrender. The war ends sooner. No American troops die and only a half million Japanese people die in the attacks.

Finally, you must remember that the Japanese weren't impressed with the Hiroshima bombing and didn't surrender immediately. Therefore, Nagasaki had to be bombed just so that the Japanese government would finally get the message and end the war.

Yeah, it doesn't count as "antagonizing" because the Japanese were busy doing that themselves while invading China, Korea, and were on their way toward INDIA(your homeland?) before attacking us at Pearl Harbor. Technically, it did "benefit" the people of Japan by ending the war, their imperialism, and their fanatical devotion to the emperor. As a result, the US "righteously" rebuilt their country and helped them become the prosperous democracy they are today. The Japanese don't "agree" with us using nukes on them, but we don't "agree" with their revisionist history that blames us for Hiroshima and Nagasaki. "War is hell"...............Therefore, don't start one with us...............

The Vietnam War was a noble cause to prevent the South from becoming Communist. Sure, the South Vietnamese government was corrupt at the time, but the natives would have been better off taking their chances with that government instead of a communist regime. Don't believe me?.............Look at these comparisons.............

Korean War: The US intervenes against a Communist invasion in South Korea. The South Korean government is corrupt and oppressive at the time. The US successfully repels the Chinese and Northern forces. Today, South Korea is a prosperous democracy while North Korea is a bankrupt Communist dictatorship.

Vietnam War: The US intervenes against a Communist invasion in South Vietnam. The South Vietnamese government is corrupt and oppressive. The US is forced to withdraw from Vietnam in defeat. Today, South Vietnam does not exist and Vietnam is a poor backward country with a Communist regime.

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Originally posted by MasJ
reagan80, hmm.. not meaning to burst your bubble or anything.. but ...

Correct me if I'm wrong, which I'm sure I must be, but wasn't it the US who dropped a nuclear bomb on Hiroshima on 6th August 1945 and on Nagasaki 8th August 1945 ?
Ofcourse, that doesn't count as antagonizing, since in your words it probably was a "rightous" course of action "benefitting" the people of Japan, and in "agreement" with them.

Sure, you think that the Vietnam war took place when a host country rejected your "goodwill" ? Interesting...

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As reagan80 pointed out, once we invaded the mains Japanese islands millions of Japanese would have died, and hundreds of thousands of US troops would have died.

When we invaded Okinawa, thousands of Japanese died. Not by US bayonets or bullets, but because they jumped off cliffs to save there honor.

The Hiroshima, and Nagasaki situations, are alike to the situation, where theres a hospital right next to an arms factory and storage facility. Well what do you do? You bomb the factory in hoped you dont kill any patients at the hospital, but knowing if you do that some must die to save many more people.


On a lighter note: Kind of interesting where in 7 pages this thread has gone.

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Originally posted by Fett aka hmm
On a lighter note: Kind of interesting where in 7 pages this thread has gone.

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I like these kind of political discussions. Sometimes though, people get carried away and start to flame, which usually ends the thread in a close. So NO Flaming, :P.

As for the nuclear attacks on Japan. I feel that this was just. Like regan pointed out, more people would've died if the US didn't drop the bombs.

Japan was well aware and warned that bombs would be dropped on them. The US tested the atmoic bomb on US grounds and sent statistics and pictures to the Japenese government. It was their choice not to surrender. We drop the first bomb, they still don't surrender, so we drop a second. They could've had 0 bombs dropped on them. It was more their choice than ours.

Bollocks! What is wrong with everyone who thinks that America can bloody simply send pictures of a nuke they're making to Japan and say "Hey Japs! Watsup guys? Dudes, if you aint walking out of this messy war, we're going to nuke ya! 'cuz I'm Dubya, and I'll bomb ya fuckin' asses to china town!!"
THAT'S NOT THE WAY THE WORLD WORKS! Well, who's going to explain that to the great and mighty America?
reagan--the following are things that I thought after reading your views:
1) Like you said, Japanese thought their emperor was GOD, you can't call them fanatics, when America thought USSR was Satan and absolutely paranoid about communism! I mean that's fanaticism!!
2) So now, when US (& Japanese) troops die-it's a humanitarian loss, eh? So that's why in their fight to liberate the poor Iraqis from the dreaded Saddam regime, they used a soldier of any nationality buy American after the real bombing started in Iraq?
3) "ONLY A HALF A MILLION JAPANESE DIED"?????? *flabbergasted*
4) If America is the leader of democracy...for goodness sake the first priniciple of a democracy is--GIVE PEOPLE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE THEIR "OWN" GOVT. It's like fighting a war to convince your neighbour to use the condom you use! Simply put--its preposterous!
5) The way to win an atomic war is to make certain it never starts.--
Omar Bradley
No flaming going on!=)

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Originally posted by Dingy
Bollocks! What is wrong with everyone who thinks that America can bloody simply send pictures of a nuke they're making to Japan and say "Hey Japs! Watsup guys? Dudes, if you aint walking out of this messy war, we're going to nuke ya! 'cuz I'm Dubya, and I'll bomb ya fuckin' asses to china town!!"
THAT'S NOT THE WAY THE WORLD WORKS! Well, who's going to explain that to the great and mighty America?
reagan--the following are things that I thought after reading your views:
1) Like you said, Japanese thought their emperor was GOD, you can't call them fanatics, when America thought USSR was Satan and absolutely paranoid about communism! I mean that's fanaticism!!
2) So now, when US (& Japanese) troops die-it's a humanitarian loss, eh? So that's why in their fight to liberate the poor Iraqis from the dreaded Saddam regime, they used a soldier of any nationality buy American after the real bombing started in Iraq?
3) "ONLY A HALF A MILLION JAPANESE DIED"?????? *flabbergasted*
4) If America is the leader of democracy...for goodness sake the first priniciple of a democracy is--GIVE PEOPLE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE THEIR "OWN" GOVT. It's like fighting a war to convince your neighbour to use the condom you use! Simply put--its preposterous!
5) The way to win an atomic war is to make certain it never starts.--
Omar Bradley
No flaming going on!=)

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Youre first part, I didnt understand at all. What does Bush have to do with Japan?

1) I dont think America thought the USSR was satan. We were enemies, that doesnt mean they were satan. Fanatics is not the right word I think, but is close. The Japanese army was near fanaticism though. Does any one know how many Japanese were captured? I dotn know for certain, but its surprisingly low. They would rather die than be captured. And unfortunately they regarded Allied POW's as less than animals. Interesting article about Japanese soldiers holding out after WWII: http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9709/23/japan.straggler/
2) Explain that again, I dont understand
4) I think its "preposterous" to compare fighting a war over condoms to Iraq. I think that is the worst analogy I have ever seen in my life.

The article was quite right, most japanese soldiers would rather die than be capurted, thats why the Japenese airforce pilots were kamakazies.

they are both the same, the question is do you want your medicine (which is poison) with a spoonful of sugar or do you want your medicine (which is still poison) with a spoonful of the crud that you can find stuck under park benches?

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Originally posted by Stranger
they are both the same, the question is do you want your medicine (which is poison) with a spoonful of sugar or do you want your medicine (which is still poison) with a spoonful of the crud that you can find stuck under park benches?

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I like the stuff under park benches, sometimes it tastes really good.

The Japanese surrendered before the US bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki.. but the announcement didn't reach the US until it was too late.

EDIT: ...I am of no use to the conversation.. but apparently, I cannot trust my sister- according to some, since she is a communist.

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Originally posted by Schutzstaffel
The Japanese surrendered before the US bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki.. but the announcement didn't reach the US until it was too late.

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The first A-Bomb, "Little Boy" was dropped on Hiroshima on August 6, 1945. The second bomb was dropped on Nagasake on August 9.

I dont think it took over 3 days for a message from Japan to reach the US.

Do no defy the words of GOD.*












*me

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Originally posted by Schutzstaffel
Do no defy the words of GOD.*












*me

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Yet another personallity I see...

I think I heard something about the message coming too late as well. I can't really back that up on fact, but yeah.

Schutzstaffel: I assume that was sarcasm? I wonder what everyone's got against communism. XD

Like I said before, I want to be president. So I can just fuck this country up worse than it already is. And all just for the fun of it.

Hehehe...National Yaoi Appreciation day (THANKS SPORKEH!!)

I'm impressed by your compassion, or lack of, thereof. People in Japan still suffer from the genetic effects of that bomb and yet you have the balls to say that it wasn't an antagonistic effort to establish the US's nuclear supremacy. Sure, keep dreaming that you weren't the guys who started the nuclear arms race, hell after the US bombs the life out of another country using nuclear arsenal, every other country is bound to be scared and bound to develop their own just incase the US does that again. Had that antagonistic action not taken place, this world might have been without such nuclear threat.

So tell me, you support and purport the fact that the nuclear arms race should be limited to the US, who, would be racing with themselves ofcourse, and that if required a re-display of Hiroshima and Nagasaki should not be avoided since killing "ONLY" half a million people and harming their genes for half a million years is just "kewl" :)