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Please, refer to the picture attached.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprung
:rofl:
Well, I see all my points have been fully elaborated on by the people here, so I see no need to rant. :P
What if he saw this as an opportunity to test Job?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciel
Not a believer, not at all. But I typed that as if I were one, just to see what would come of it. :P
Hell, I've got other questions like that, but they bore the poo out of me. :lol (Hurray for double meannings. :LOL: )
I voted no, due to the extreme black-and-white nature of the poll. I am my own creator, I forge what happens next although I am aware that some stuff is just out of my hands, but by no means do I believe in the supernatural. And I detest organized religion, mainly because of human nature, but I also accept what others believe in. If it makes YOU happy, it's good enough for you. I don't need divinity to be happy but some people feel that they do.
Yeah, I really appreciate that. I kinda remember being open to other's opinions, and not mocking them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evans
well since you wanted to see what would come of it...Quote:
Originally Posted by Evans
If god allows satan to interfere, it is no longer this so called "free will" that people tend to cling to as reason why god isn't controlling us like puppets. That therefore brings up the argument of whether or not god is playing with us like we are his toys and he is some child looking for fun (similar to what Hiduja said earlier). Now if you follow Sprungs opinion that life is a trial (a pretty popular view among theists) then why add another trial, which is biased toward turning Job away from god? Plus, there is also the question of why god chose to break his laws in this case, and to such a massive degree. This seems wrong to give people who work day and night for god a crapload of bad stuff, while evil people get all the breaks. It just seems like something a just god wouldn't do.
OOOooooOOO...semi-almost-quasi-pwned.
yes i believe God exists it's just that i don't believe in some religions
i don't really know, but im kinda leaning toward the non believing side because im finding alot of holes in the bible not including the ones said here like what happened before we were born. i mean it wouldnt count as being alive if we were still split into sperm and egg now would it? were we with god before we were born? if so then why did we leave so we could become alive and live worshipping him just to earn the chance to get back up there? if not, then where did we really originate?
Alot of talk on the board about good and evil and whether evil is created and/or an aspect of god. Firstly there is no such thing as evil in the sense that something can't be irredeemably evil most things/people we consider evil are all aspects of free will and differing opinion. If you asked someone if Hitler was evil most people would say yes, however if you asked Hitler if he were evil what would he say? Ask the germans of the time whether Hitler were evil you'd get the same answer. The point is blaming/praising god for the bad/good things that happen within your life without taking blame/praise yourself is just another stupid excuse people use when things go out of their hands or protect themselves if it goes wrong.
The end (excuse all the slashes)
Does a God exist?
Yeah sure. Why not? Frankly, I couldn't care less. I've grown tired of these debates.
then do us all of a favor and be the coolest one here by closing this :)Quote:
Originally Posted by brit
First of all, yeah, I do believe in God... maybe in not a "standar" way... I believe in God in terms of the ultimate truth; the origin of all and the end of all.
I believe in a complete God, wich is not good, nor evil, but a whole... pretty hard to explain :P. But I think that God is angel and devil. Why to divide both aspects of nature? If there's a God (I think), it must be a complete being. But that's only my crazy opinion.
I've read some guys saying that God "forgot" about us humans... Aren't we responsible for what we do or for what we left undone? I remmenber I once read that if you want a miracle, don't just sit there waitting God to do it all for you: do all the possible to achieve what you want. And leave the impossible part in God's hands. That means: faith by itself is pretty useless; it must be backed-up by actions.
If we want things to get better, sitting there and leaving it all to God's will is not very logic. We should do whatever is in our hands to achieve that. Or no miracle will happen.
Time to to go to bed... last final exam coming tomorrow... yay! Cya!
Well I see the point of how some things can be considered a point of view. Although to add to this, good is also a point of view and not a definate explaination. Murder. Evil right? Now what if it is done in self defence or for good reason? No the whole thing flips. What if the murderer was insane? Now you look down more on the mental issue than the murder itself. There are many angles to consider, and I doubt many people would do things that are considered by them to be wrong (although, some things are considered almost universally wrong, yet some people still do them. This is the reason for laws IMO)Quote:
Originally Posted by ThugMaloy
Then what is the point in worshipping a god if it simply doesn't do anything for you? That is why I choose to do things for myself and live according to my laws and rules. I don't put everyting in God's lap, I do everything on my own. If there is a god, it isn't giving me a hand. Where was god when I needed it? nowhere to be found. I got through life without it, and I don't need it now, nor do I plan to give it unearned credit for assisting me. I choose what I do or do not do, and I wish people would stop chalking it up to god's will (IMO it's not a good idea to leave your life in someone else's hands, but that's just my opinion, don't take it personally if you are like this).Quote:
Originally Posted by LastPucho
I respect the fact that you choose your beleifs instead of subscribing to a pre set religion, definantly the way to go IMO if you believe in a god. Also, you're opinion on the whole Good/Evil god thing seems interesting. It would really make sense in a lot of places, such as why evil and good seem equal at time, yet other times one or the other is predominant.
Good is the same as evil its just the two sides of the same argument. Usually you've chosen your sides before you even realize it and afterwards the other side is always evil to you but the other side considers you evil as well so in the end neither side is actually good except to its own allies. The entirety of good and evil is all determined by which side of an argument your on the point being nothing, nothing is black and white no matter how terrible you think it is.
Come on, Sprung, bare with me. That was a mere joke on the kneeling part. You know damn well that If I wanted to be disrespectful or even worse, I'd have been mean. ;)
Now, Omega, I'll be the Devil's advocate. ( :rofl: )
Free will was a concept elaborated upon the idea that God could do no wrong. I believe. ( :lol )Quote:
Originally Posted by Omega Weapon
"I killed someone out of free will."
We can't say that God made him, nor did the Devil. (Someone's gonna say that the Devil's biggest trick is to make us believe he doesn't exist. I'd say God is doing a pretty good job at that too.) ( Sorry, got distracted and can't remember where I was going with this... :upset: )
Also, free will could still stand, even if Satan puts up needles and thin ropes on the road. It would be up to us to decide what we do, how we cross that road.
Wouldn't you too be testing someone if you could offer them an eternal life of pleasure and cookies? If God gives you the keys to being eternally happy, and tells you what will happen if you don't follow them, it doesn't mean that he's playing a "game", merely that he provides you with a chance at eternal pleasures. Whether you choose or not to disregard that chance, for the pleasure can be obtained now, is your choice. If you don't believe that he said that, if you deny his existence, how He'll treat is up to Him. Never forget that the word of God is told by man, and you know how these humans can be... Ho hahahaha ho heehehe. Ahem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omega
Hey, if life is a trial, then one more obstacle is just part of it, no? A test of faith is a test of faith. Or maybe he's testing that so-called free will.
What? Evil people get all the breaks? Hell. I think that will do it, yes. Hell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omega
For God to brake his own laws, they have to be his own. See, we brag and brag that God said this and God said that. What if humans added a bit of their own ideas to the mix? Thinking that we understand what the greatest Thinker thinks is unthinkable. I think. Also, this has to have happened to be usable as an argument. I don't believe that anyone was there if that encounter between God and Satan took place, if it ever did. Could have been a poorly thought story intended to make people think, a parable or something. And who said God had to be a "good"?
Okie, enough of taking the other side for now. And later too. :P
Yes. I do. What? Was you expecting more?
What? You forgot how to copy and paste? :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Xena
Nobody should really care about that. Unless it affects their day-to-day life.
:nosweat:Quote:
Originally Posted by Evans
Ohhhhh dear. This is going to hurt you alot more than it's going to hurt me.
:nosweat:Quote:
Originally Posted by Xena
Are you implying retaliation? Oh noes.
Isn't anybody capable of taking a joke tonight? Geez.
Ohhhhh fine. There. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Evans
It's morning for me and I've just finished another 10 hours shift.
I'm tired emotionaly and physicaly, and I just want to go bed. Good night, morning, WHATEVER.
Good, 'cause I wasn't scared. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Xena
4:40 here, so 'morning to you too. I'll try that bed thing soon enough.
I share the view that God does not exist. To me, religion is no more than politics, but merely another form of propaganda that is spread by humans. In my opinion, it is no more than a whole crapload of lies.
If you believe in god just because you desire to enter the gates of heaven, is it not the same if you are tempted to take Satan's offer because of all the mortal possessions and luxuries promised? To use the prospect of entering heaven as a bait to attract more followers, god is going in the exact same path that Satan is taking. Ironic, yet true. Satan tempts humans with worldly possessions, while God tempts humans with the possibility of being accepted into heaven after death. In the end, humans are still being lured by one thing or another, but the question is just whether they are seeing it in the long term or short term.
It would also be prudent to note that humans have this tendency to try and bend the truth to their advantage. Over the centuries, the truth may have been twisted beyond recognition to form this 'religion' that we see today. Why would god want to psyche people into becoming his followers? There are people who stay true to the path of good, even though they are clearly non-believers, as it is just common sense to do unto others not what you don't desire others to do unto you. The many commandments of god could possibly have been real, yet there is no concrete proof to ascertain that, and it is just a code of conduct that humans could have well been able to think of by themselves.
Heaven is also an ironic thing to speak of. If god or the lord was as saintly and impartial to all as the christians boast of, why is it that only his followers are allowed entrance to heaven? This, in a way, is indirectly saying that those that are non-believers are evil, and deserve to be punished by burning in hell. One should keep in mind that there are tons of other people that follow the many other religions that exist on this mortal plane, and they too, carry out good deeds. Thus, it is highly possible that it is a merely a grand sham, nursed to fool those that place their faith in 'the lord' blindly to be used as a puppet by the 'religious' leaders.
Furthermore, there are many contradictions. It is claimed that the lord is all forgiving. Many people repent their sins to 'the lord'. Yet we can see in the bible that 'the lord' gave no chances to some that committed mistakes, turning his back upon them. Also, if that was the case, why are only a select few who are deemed to be more 'holy' than others are accepted instead of the whole community? People are judged at the gates of heavens, their sins weighed against their merits. Why should this be even necessary if 'god' is willing to forgive all who truly repented? Thus, this inconsistency is another point that adds to the my suspicion that 'the lord' is a tale weaved up by the humans of old, and continued on by the unsuspecting believers.
Kindly pardon me if my opinions have offended any one out there looking at my post. My learning is shallow, and I am merely stating those that I know of, along with my narrow opinions on it.
I guess enjoying worldly pleasures makes me a Satanist. So be it. It simply proves it has nothing to do with rituals or sacrifices, bitches. :wacko: To be a Satanist means to be your own leader, it's all about self-assertion. Though on a plain level, I don't quite believe in the supernatural or in the existence of a creator at all to some extent, which would make me an "Agnostic Satanic Secular Humanist". :wacko:Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkFang
and now for my shortest post in pages: True datQuote:
Originally Posted by DarkFang
I don't intend to write an essay, so I'll just give my answer... no, I don't believe in God, though I don't have a problem with those who do. End of story.
I think that one God is exist
99% sure because, for example, I have heard a lot of stories of died people who somebody has woken up alive again, and those people who were died, told about hell and heaven and so on... and some guys have blessed other people... :nod:
And it doesn't make me satanic if /though I like a lot of death/black/heavy metal... it's just only music
:rockin: and would like to be able to play it myself
huh???Quote:
Originally Posted by Adsij
He thinks god exists, at least 99% sure because of the people who had NDE (mear death experiencess). These NDE involved heaven and hell. He also doesn't think metal or loud music which is generally deemed evil is satanic, because it is only music. He also says he would like to learn how to play that kind of music
Yes... I'm fast to learn so I maybe could learn that skill but don't have enough friends......MUSICAL friends ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Omega Weapon
PSSHHH!! Does god exist... HA! He moderates the forums for pete's sake!
I believe that there is a higher power of some, sort, quite possibly of the Judeo-Islamo-Christian monotheistic variety, but also possibly of the Hindu sort-of-1000-but-sort-of-1 variety or even possibly in the Shinto/Native American/Wiccan nature spirit variety.
I actually nearly died some years ago, and the heaven / hell experiences can be explained quite simply. (besides there is no hell or a heaven all "good" people are going to because of being in church one time a year at christmas, but that's another matter...)Quote:
Originally Posted by Omega Weapon
When you are nearly dead your body tries everything to keep you heart beating and you breathing. So your body sets a huge amount of chemical stuff free and you have everthing but a clear view of things. Exactly that hapened to me and it was horrible, just seeing pure white and hearing strange voices because your heart beats like hell and you have no chance getting a clear view or whatever...
Well, hell is not a bible teaching, anywhere. People believe god is good, people don't give up on trust sometimes. But it depends on what you believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evans
You have a very open mind. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Madcrow
for sure, just imagine:Quote:
Originally Posted by Xena
We all exist because of billions of years a big BOOOOOM created all planets and stuff. Then a miracle! For some reason a living cell gets on the earth without being damaged, and is so cool to dublicate.
hmm some million years later a strange animal crawles out of the water and thinks, wow great place! I hate water you know! lets get some fur and a huge brain and live here.
some million years later the ape sitting on his tree thinks, hmm don't want to sit here around and looking stupid, let's walk on two legs and develope a social behaviour! Community is great!
and so the human started to exist. sry but thats a lot more stupid than believing in a god, not an old man sitting around but a extreme amount of power, who created people.
And why do we have something like sympathy or whatever? not because of developing out of an hairy dumbass. A working commnity would not be possible if there wouldn't be someone giving us into mind to care about others, and not only for the own children most animals do.
I put "Do you even care" and didn't bother reading the thread. Agnosticism makes the most sense to me and that's what I'm sticking with.
One thing's for sure, if there's a god he's one sadistic son of a bitch.
It's fun to read people write "God doesn't make sense, he's a hypocrite." God is supposedly also incomprehensible to human minds.
I do not believe that there is one or multiple existestences that could be called a god (I guess I kinda covered that God/gods/spirit/ancient governing force variety), but I do think that there's something that makes you different from your flesh, bones, and electric impulses charging through and forth your brain. A spark of like, life-essence, willpower, call it whatever you desire. I'd use the term Ki myself, since most martial arts that put a great effort into understanding that use it.
What's the point in "just believing" in something that's completely incomprehensible? I believe were there a God then certainly he would equip us with enough sense to at least be able to see his ways and understand them. Otherwise it's just random faith?Quote:
Originally Posted by pkt-zer0
I have to agree with you here. I don't think in denying the existence of God one must be a materialist. However, if somebody would like to build a computer with will and prove me otherwise...Quote:
Originally Posted by pkt-zer0
You can start out from two points of view, you either believe in a God, or do not. The second option is of no relevance, because there would be no point in a debate then (you cannot argue over something that does not exist. Well, you can, but there's no point in it, after all. :))Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaenn
If you take that God does indeed exist, you could say that He knows better than you, so whatever He supposedly did, did for your good.
Limiting the extent of your knowledge would be just one of those things. I believe H.P.Lovecraft (you know, the Cthulhu guy :P) said something like this: "Mankind has only managed to stay sane for so long because it never could manage to see all its knowledge as a whole, never been able to look at the cold and terrifying reality."
I'm pretty sure you're aware of how many people die every second, but it does not occur often to most people that they're one of those possibly soon-to-be-dead people, and it makes no difference on the whole whether they live or die.
On an even greater scale, does it really matter is mankind and it's little blue planet wiped off the fictional map of the universe? It's so goddamn huge that noone would notice.
Ignorance is bliss, in some cases, it seems.
I couldn't help but think, it certainly would matter to humans. Being a bit...focused (self-centered, species-centered, "gaea-centric" for the radical Greenies, whichever manifestation you prefer) seems to help quite well with dealing with it. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by pkt-zer0
I guess my problem was more that if God was truly completely incomprehensible, than how would you reach this conclusion?Quote:
Originally Posted by pkt-zer0
I guess it depends on whether or not you believe there is somebody else to notice. And isn't it all relative anyway? A small community will mean nothing to the rest of the world, but if it means everything to those in it that's what matters.Quote:
On an even greater scale, does it really matter is mankind and it's little blue planet wiped off the fictional map of the universe? It's so goddamn huge that noone would notice.
I'm not going to take the time to read this thread, I came by to say that Yes, I believe there is a God.
That is all.