Agreeing is no fun:PQuote:
Originally Posted by Xena
I surmise I'm not one of them.Quote:
It was not directed towards you, a small look at a feeling some humans get.
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Agreeing is no fun:PQuote:
Originally Posted by Xena
I surmise I'm not one of them.Quote:
It was not directed towards you, a small look at a feeling some humans get.
I don't mind agreeing sometimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingy
but everyone does have a right to be wrong :P
What's funny is that hardc0regamer's arguments against the power of the Church (even down to that Church, capitalized singular), reminds me of nothing quite as much as the most fervent Calvinist and Lutheran propaganda against the Catholics during the Thirty Years War (all that stuff about vile Romish Popery I've salted a couple posts with already). ;)
Oh, and regarding beliefs and atheists, the problem is not that they don't believe in the divine (an agnostic also does not believe in God). The problem is that they believe in the absence of the divine (which an agnostic does not...agnostics are basically empiricists, and do not believe in either the presence or absence due to a lack of proof or knowledge). Atheism is a belief, but a belief of a different sort.
On atheism �Sometimes atheism refers simply to the practical rejection or ignoring of God,� notes The Encyclopedia Americana. For this reason, The New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary gives the following second definition of �atheist�: �A person who denies God morally; a godless person.�.Quote:
Originally Posted by Himiko
Yes, atheism may entail a denial either of God�s existence or of his authority or of both. The Bible alludes to this atheistic spirit at �They profess to acknowledge God, but deny him by their actions.�
Such rejection of God�s authority can be traced back to the first human pair. Eve acknowledged God�s existence; yet, she wanted �to be like God, knowing good and bad.� The implication was that she could �be her own boss� and create her own moral code. Adam later joined Eve in this denial of God�s authority.
A subtle atheism is manifested in a quest for independence. �People today are tired of living under the eye of God,� observes the book One Hundred Years of Debate Over God�The Sources of Modern Atheism. �They . . . prefer to live in freedom.� The Bible�s moral code is renounced as impractical, unrealistic. The thinking of many is much like that of the Egyptian Pharaoh who defiantly declared: �Who is Jehovah, so that I should obey his voice . . . ? I do not know Jehovah at all.� He rejected Jehovah�s authority.
agnostics, believe that God is unknown and probably unknowable. However, that obviously does not mean that they are people without principles or ethics, any more than professing a religion means that one does have them. However, if one accepts religion as being �devotion to some principle; strict fidelity or faithfulness; conscientiousness; pious affection or attachment,� then most people, including atheists and agnostics, do have some form of religious devotion in their lives.�The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary.
Hmm.. I read about an outrage that broke out in 1989 over the book The Satanic Verses, written by what some people termed �an apostate Muslim,� is clear evidence of how religious sentiment can manifest itself on a global scale. There were calls from Islamic leaders for the book to be banned and even for the author to be put to death.
Has anyone noticed that one of the longest threads is the one about Christianity?
Yes.. most imput on these subjects is from my great sparing partener Xaenn, me and sometimes Himiko.Quote:
Originally Posted by IloveEsther
I have a problem with your use of the word 'problem', Zephyr. Why would you think it's a problem and on the other hand certify it as a belief nonetheless?Quote:
Originally Posted by Himiko
I think the 'C'hurch's propaganda is as much as would have been the most fervent Lutheran's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Himiko
Aren't those two contradictory?Quote:
Originally Posted by Xena
I don't know how much of it was religious 'sentiment', since Khomeini issued a fatwa in Salman Rushdie's name which declared that "all those involved in its publication who are aware of its content are sentenced to death." And this was done b/c there were some verses were apparently inconsistent with Muhammad's staunch monotheism, thus, deleted from the Quran.Quote:
Hmm.. I read about an outrage that broke out in 1989 over the book The Satanic Verses, written by what some people termed �an apostate Muslim,� is clear evidence of how religious sentiment can manifest itself on a global scale. There were calls from Islamic leaders for the book to be banned and even for the author to be put to death.
I think that is more radical and coercive than most aethism.
Not really... If they were I was simply giving a definition of what athisits belive... (in the former part of my post)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingy
the latter part was a factual statment of something that happend a while ago... I simply heard of it... I never heard much of it.
the latter part also was not connected to the former, it was a seprate paragraph. I did not
thank you for the info.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xena
I'm still confused. You talk of what atheism is and then also quote the bible by saying that they acknowledge the presence of god.Quote:
Yes, atheism may entail a denial either of God�s existence or of his authority or of both. The Bible alludes to this atheistic spirit at �They profess to acknowledge God, but deny him by their actions.�
ask an atheist, thats the definition they gave.. I'm not goin to defend thier belifes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingy
But you defend the bible's, so maybe you can clear my confusion on this--you agree with the definition that you stated earlier? And if yes, then it doesn't collaborate with what the bible says. I'm just trying to understand what your views are, and in the process, clearing some of the haze.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xena
It's a problem in light of attacking religious people who believe in the existence of the divine for their beliefs, when their beliefs are no more substantiated. Just because I find atheism more compelling under scientific scrutiny (Occam strikes again, were I forced to choose without adequate proof for or against a deity) doesn't make it any less a belief.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingy
Yeah, but the Roman Catholic Church had a power and centralization unmatched in theocratic background, which is why the arguments on religion regarding power plays and the ilk remind me more about anti-Catholic propaganda than anti-Protestant propaganda (since Protestants were far less centralized and the churches were far more independent...that's also why there are so many Protestant denominations that spawned in such a short time in comparison to before Luther's Theses). Oh, and also, the Catholics weren't quite as good at propaganda as some of the Calvinists, and they didn't keep it up for as long (Anti-Catholic suspicion surfaced when America saw a Catholic run in 1960's, and even Kerry was questioned on his religious beliefs last election...Kennedy and Kerry both put the Constitution above the Pope, of course). ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingy
EDIT: Oh, and you know, I forgot entirely that no one answered my question on the Apocrypha and related texts.
After all, a fundamental part of literally interpreting is the basis that the Bible was never altered from when it was handed down by God, because if it was changed, then those changes are of man, and thus fallible. The idea of "cherry-picking" from the Bible to decide which are correct and not is also steeped in humanity, and I was reminded about it by Xena's dismissal of the Pontiff of Rome on the basis that he's Catholic, considering it was many early synods of the catholic (pre-Schism, so catholic is solely universal still) church that determined the scripture and teachings that would in large part carry on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Himiko
What's Aethism? *snerk*Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingy
Radical is a point of View. Islam has it's Radical conservatives, And Radical Liberals. The former, specifically the Wahhabist Sect, are the terrorists, and they are a small minority amonng the world's mulsims, the majority of which are Asian. And Islamic scholars in America, Europe, and Asia have all issued fatwahs condeming Terrorism.
Futhermore, while there may be cases of Coersion associated with Islam, Islamic theology does not condone coersion ouside of legal uses (technically law & punishment is form of coersion, albeit one that is validated by social contracts). "Converion by the sword" has happened historical with every major world religion (as well as non-religious ideologies, such as Communism/ Marxist-Leninsm), but none of them, to my knowledge condone it from a theological perspective. But the "convert or Die" folks probably didn't know their koran/bible/sutras all that well.
I can't do this anymore.... I'm sorryQuote:
After all, a fundamental part of literally interpreting is the basis that the Bible was never altered from when it was handed down by God, because if it was changed, then those changes are of man, and thus fallible. The idea of "cherry-picking" from the Bible to decide which are correct and not is also steeped in humanity, and I was reminded about it by Xena's dismissal of the Pontiff of Rome on the basis that he's Catholic, considering it was many early synods of the catholic (pre-Schism, so catholic is solely universal still) church that determined the scripture and teachings that would in large part carry on.
It seemed like in this world you had to go along to get along. The world was getting worse and nothing seemed to be getting done about it.
When I first joined the army, I would have sacrificed my life to defend others and all that is good, now it just seems pointless.
It seems these last 5 years of my life have just brought me scars.
it does'nt change how I feel about people, like you guys, I'm sorry, but i'm done fighting.
The primitives thought that the sun was a god, just like we think that there's a god above. But you know what? I live in Italy, where the Vatican is. My country is doomed by church laws and you cannot avoid them.
An example?
In Usa you have springbreak. We don't. Why?
Because of the church goddamn it!!!
Is it right that i have to miss springbreak because of the church?
No.
(Not to mention that bullshit about Harry Potter...the pope said that children must not read it!!!!)