What exactly has to happen for certain people to be rid of their illness, while others who are faithful to God, and do have relationships with him? He has plans for only certain people whom believe in him?
Printable View
What exactly has to happen for certain people to be rid of their illness, while others who are faithful to God, and do have relationships with him? He has plans for only certain people whom believe in him?
You need to understand that not everyone has an issue with ignorance. We can't explain everything. We don't know how we came to be. We don't know why certain things are. We don't know how everything works. We don't understand the concept of eternity, or if there's even such a thing. We are all ignorant. If you find comfort in believing that an entity you call God is the answer to everything you don't understand, then so be it. Hope that makes you feel better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zephyr
Not everyone "jumps to conclusions". Especially in the absence of proof.
And we're back to the "this is a question of faith/beliefs" situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypnos
I've made my peace with the inconsistencies. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Jetsetlemming
Also, I don't remember the part where God works against himself in Exodus.
Revelation is supposedly the direct result of a pan-universe war between Heaven and Hell. It's the end of the Earth. :P A bit different situation that God manipulating free will.
Also, lots and lots of Revelation is in code or in the typical cloudy vision that prophecies tend to come in. :P I'm sure you know the history of the Book.
When did we leave it in the first place?Quote:
Originally Posted by Evans
We're still humans man, people are not exempt from disease and earth just because they're a Christian or believe in God. Some people who aren't even religious and been healed or saved in some way, which usually bring them to God afterwards, sometimes not. Trust me, if EVERY Christian were healed when they prayed, do you truly think anyone would NOT be a Christian. That's where faith comes in. You have to sometimes go with it, and have that faith. Even die for that faith. People all over the world are dying for their faith in God, in countries where it's forbidden.Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael
Exactly Evans, please don't mistake me for thinking I'm better or less than anyone here, because I'm not. I'm a struggling person with limited to no hard evidence as we are. I'm just stating what I know and believe, as you all are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evans
It's fair.
Not how it works man, being a Christian really has nothing to do with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael
It all comes in faith and fate. I wouldn't call it lucky, I'd call it fortunate to have a little bit more time in this world than others.
Lucky has nothing to do with it.
What? :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Zephyr
I haven't. Minor inconsistencies I could stand, but there are too many in there that strike at the theological core of the religion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetsetlemming
It's all through Exodus. Every time Moses goes to see Pharaoh, God hardens pharaohs heart so that he won't let the slaves go. He even messed with Pharaohs free will so that he'd charge his army into the oceanbed. It comes up in Exodus 4,7,8,9,10,11, and 14. A similar trick involving the Anakites appears in the book of Joshua.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetsetlemming
As for Revelation, I was actually speaking of God overriding free will (and allowing the AC to do the same) during that period. War or not, it does show that he interferes when he wants to.
No shit. It's the book that barely made it into canon, but it is still canon. Which makes it fair game as far as criticism goes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetsetlemming
It's ok, you've said it yourself, you're merely trying to be an ass. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetsetlemming
But, to answer you, when we started going on about what was/could be real in the Bible based upon actual evidence.
According to your previous posts, when prayer works out, it's faith, and when it doesn't, it's fate...Quote:
Originally Posted by Zephyr
It's not a choosing game. Just because someone's a Christian, doesn't mean they're exempt from all illness, death, loss and anything someone who's atheist goes through.Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael
Prayer and faith go a long way, and is the way to talk to god, and have that feeling of communication between you. He knows what you want, and what you need, but doesn't mean he's going to give it to you or heal you. Everything happens for a reason, and it's because of his set plan.
Sorry about the double posting, didn't think twice about it. Got in a heated discussion and just went for it lol, I'm doing my best to not DP and edit if need be. :P
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evans
No, fate is preordained. That can never be changed.
Faith is what you believe in and what you hold through no matter what.
Faith will be what pulls you through the hard times, maybe mentally, physically, spiritually or all three.
No worries, Chibi made a stupid spam post which I deleted, I assume you saw it, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. - Michael
I've got to step in and call bullshit here. Benny Hinn and his kind are con artists, the people that are "saved" and "healed" are either plants, or too stupid to see the difference between truly being ill, and having Munchausen syndrome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zephyr
No one has ever been "healed" by getting on their knees and talking to an imaginary friend that they share with a few million people.
Re-read my post, I said people I knew personally, and right besides me, just because you haven't seen it ,doesn't mean I haven't. I have saw it, and I'm the first to disbelieve anything I haven't seen, and then even doubt that. I've also seen and heard people who were possed by demons. People I know wouldn't fake it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheezymadman
You really don't want to claim Immutable Fate under a Christian paradigm. It just makes everything involved look even worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zephyr
Unless you're a Calvinist. It's hard to make those guys look worse.
:serious:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zephyr
Believe what you want to believe, but I've never seen actual evidence of anyone being healed by prayer. It just doesn't work that way.
Call me a cynic, but I think that believing in anything other than what you can see with your own eyes is a waste of time and proof of an overactive imagination.
Also: Fate is a concept creted by those without the ability to take responsibility for their own life. I'm a broke fucking college dropout, and I know it's my fault. It's not God's Plan or anything as asinine as that. It's my own fucking fault.
germs. (oh wait, you can't hear me.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheezymadman
If that what works for you man, than that's what works for you. Trust me, I'm struggling. It seems so confusing and crazy, but I have seen it and I do believe. It's hard not to when you see it. Maybe you will sometime, maybe you won't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheezymadman
So, you'd have been healed regardless of your faith/prayers? Are you saying that faith/prayers are only to make oneself feel better?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zephyr