So I Heard London is Burning Down.

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Originally Posted by crimsonedge

It doesn't have anything to do with this, I made the comment that Britain is going to shit for more reasons than just these riots.

And I don't know what footage you have been watching, but most of what I have seen has been the complete opposite.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib5ed...eature=related

Mostly people of color with a few White kids in the mix.




There are always going to be a few racists making comments on something like this, it doesn't necessarily make the article that was reported any less valid because a few Nazis logged in and made a comment.

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Your footage of a fairly small group of people, most of whom are wearing black in the middle of the night, whose faces can barely be seen if at all. Yes, these are clearly people of color.

2 things.

1) It's not just a "few". The comments are filled with this stuff.

2) That STILL doesn't fix the fact that the articles you post aren't towards a neutral view, but biased against the immigrants.

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Originally Posted by skullpoker

1:30 You can clearly see that when they made it up to the KFC, they stopped pushing. This is far too organized to be a riot.

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Indeed, it seems like they came out of no where, and started rushing the police





This is what i think about religion. Even in America, it's becoming more dominate with politics, which is annoying.

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Originally Posted by crimsonedge

It doesn't have anything to do with this, I made the comment that Britain is going to shit for more reasons than just these riots.

And I don't know what footage you have been watching, but most of what I have seen has been the complete opposite.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib5edeXXEN0&feature=related

Mostly people of color with a few White kids in the mix.




There are always going to be a few racists making comments on something like this, it doesn't necessarily make the article that was reported any less valid because a few Nazis logged in and made a comment.

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I Have ate at that KFC a few times

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Originally Posted by Ivolt

Your footage of a fairly small group of people, most of whom are wearing black in the middle of the night, whose faces can barely be seen if at all. Yes, these are clearly people of color.

2 things.

1) It's not just a "few". The comments are filled with this stuff.

2) That STILL doesn't fix the fact that the articles you post aren't towards a neutral view, but biased against the immigrants.

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Its really hard to find any article in the media now days that isn't biased toward a particular view. You certainly won't find that kind of neutrality anywhere on television.

If I am going to blame the police for anything, it would be for not putting an end to this much quicker. Where are the water cannons, tear gas and rubber bullets? Its like they aren't even trying to put an end to this.

And these rioters are thugs, every single one of them and I don't care what color they are.

You crumpet eaters need to stop your temper tantrum.

You're killing my 401k.

Interesting site

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Originally Posted by Tassadar

Interesting site

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Indeed. I like this one: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lp...pwklo1_400.jpg

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Originally Posted by crimsonedge

If I am going to blame the police for anything, it would be for not putting an end to this much quicker. Where are the water cannons, tear gas and rubber bullets? Its like they aren't even trying to put an end to this.

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Because those only work on larger protests that actually stay in one place long enough to bring in the gear. Not small looting mobs that pop up, tear the crap out of things and then flee.

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Originally Posted by crimsonedge

Its really hard to find any article in the media now days that isn't biased toward a particular view. You certainly won't find that kind of neutrality anywhere on television.

If I am going to blame the police for anything, it would be for not putting an end to this much quicker. Where are the water cannons, tear gas and rubber bullets? Its like they aren't even trying to put an end to this.

And these rioters are thugs, every single one of them and I don't care what color they are.

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The Met alone does not have have the manpower to handle something like this, but the central authorities have authorized the use of rubber bullets and called up officers from all over the Greater London area and beyond (including Cleveland and Northumbria, for heaven's sakes). It's completely unprecedented as far as how much manpower they're shoving into London to crush this thing.

Spoiler warning:

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UK riots: police get tough as lockdown sets in

Scotland Yard has ordered its officers to use every available force, including possible use of plastic bullets, to stop Britain's riots as London was flooded with 16,000 officers, the biggest police presence in the capital in history.

With early reports emerging of a fourth night of trouble, involving shops broken into and torched in Greater Manchester and the West Midlands, some urban areas, notably in London, were in virtual lockdown as many businesses closed and shop windows were boarded up.

Amid intense pressure on police resources the military were taking an increased – though still indirect – role. Some police officers drafted into London were being housed at army barracks, while Essex police were using some army vehicles as backup.

One army unit, the 3rd Rifles based in Glasgow, was also on put on notice so that it is ready to deploy at 12 hours' notice.

Beginning a day of drama, David Cameron, stood in Downing Street hours after returning from holiday in Italy and pledged to flood the capital with 16,000 police – more than double those on duty the previous night and the most ever deployed in one place in the UK – to stem what Scotland Yard is calling the worst UK urban violence in recent history.

The public should expect to see "many more" rioters arrested from now on, the prime minister said. Parliament would be recalled on Thursday to debate the trouble, he added. Shortly afterwards Cameron chaired a meeting of the Cobra security committee at which it is understood he and the home secretary, Theresa May, discussed the possible use of plastic bullets, water cannon and other tactics. Following the meeting the Home Office asked the Ministry of Defence to "scope out what low-end" help the armed forces might provide.

Any decision on using plastic bullets will be up to senior police officers. If used, it would be the first time they have been fired at rioters in the UK outside Northern Ireland. It forms part of a wider reversal of tactics by Scotland Yard following criticism of its response so far. Senior police sources told the Guardian on Tuesday that for the first three nights of trouble officers in London were told to stand by, watch and wait rather than actively seek to arrest rioters and looters. But after anger from the public – who witnessed officers seemingly doing little as youths ran unchecked, burning and looting– and Cameron's intervention, those orders were abruptly changed to leave officers free to tackle troublemakers in the act.

The Met's acting commissioner, Tim Godwin, and his senior team authorised the tougher tactics after watching Monday night's events from their operations centre. In the early hours of Tuesday the decision to use heavily armoured Jankel vehicles to clear the streets of Clapham Junction, south London, was the first indication of a radical change of plan. "The officers on the streets wanted to do nothing more than go in and arrest people as they were in the act of breaking into property, looting and robbing. But they had been told not to and it was just not acceptable," said a source. "That has had to change."

The 16,000 officers in London included 1,500 dispatched from as far afield as Cleveland and Northumbria. "We have given London everything it asked for," said Sir Hugh Orde, president of the Association of Chief Police Officers. "And if there is a need for more we will get it."

Deputy assistant commissioner Steven Kavanagh said the Met would consider using every weapon at their disposal, including plastic bullets, kept on standby during the Broadwater Farm riots and trouble at previous Notting Hill carnivals.

Kavanagh denied the force was soft on rioters. "The Met is not namby pamby," he told the Guardian.

A parallel crackdown has begun to track down rioters and looters, with police releasing a gallery of those believed responsible for trouble, including CCTV stills of very young men and women, some with faces clearly visible. So far, Scotland Yard officers have arrested 563 people, with 105 charged. In total 111 officers and five police dogs, have been injured.

Following the scale of Monday night's violence shops in many parts of London closed, with some businesses sending staff home early.

In some places this was a response to direct police warnings; elsewhere fears were stoked by a combination of TV footage and speculation spread on Twitter and elsewhere.

Monday's trouble saw the first confirmed death of the riots, when a 26-year-old man was shot in the head in Croydon. Another man is fighting for his life after being attacked by rioters in Ealing, west London. "Where will this end?" said Jalil al-Mohammed, whose fruit and vegetable shop was looted. "This boy has died and all these shops have gone. It affects everybody not just the shop owners."

The chaos has brought a series of knock-on effects, including the cancellation of Wednesday night's scheduled football friendly between England and the Netherlands at Wembley stadium. This weekend's start of the Premier League football season is also under a cloud, with several fixtures in the capital under threat.

The scale of the trouble brought other politicians back to London along with Cameron. Also newly returned were Nick Clegg and the London mayor, Boris Johnson, both of whom endured a sometimes hostile reception on walkabouts. Clegg was booed by a crowd in Birmingham while Johnson, in Clapham Junction, saw an off-the-cuff speech interrupted by cries of "Where were the police?"

The first rioting began on Saturday in the wake of a protest in Tottenham, north London, following the shooting dead by police of a local man, Mark Duggan, two days earlier. On Tuesday the Independent Police Complaints Commission confirmed that initial ballistics tests suggested Duggan had not opened fire on the police before he was killed, although the illegal firearm he was carrying was loaded. The IPCC said Duggan suffered gunshot wounds to his chest and right arm.

The subsequent rioting could cost taxpayers £100m, according to initial estimates by the Association of British Insurers, with police authorities facing the prospect of picking up insurance costs for damage done to properties across the country.

The Riots (Damages) Act 1886 specifies that where damage is caused by people "riotously and tumultuously assembled", local police authorities are required to compensate victims.

The Met, which faces a particularly heavy bill, said it would meet any cost from its reserves, which are funded by the taxpayer.

In several parts of London local people began the initial clean-up by taking to the streets armed with brooms following appeals on social networking sites. Others were taking matters into their own hands in a different way: Amazon.co.uk's sales charts saw a sudden spike in sales for baseball bats and police-style batons.

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Oh, and on the lighter side...

Spoiler warning:

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UK riots: Iran condemns police 'violence'

Iran has called on the British government to "restrain" the police and stop the "violent treatment" of rioters.

The foreign ministry spokesman, Ramin Mehmanparast, said dialogue would calm the situation, and urged the UK to respond to the demands of the "protesters". He also asked human rights organisations to investigate the death of Mark Duggan, which led to the riots.

As diplomatic tension continues between the two countries, officials in Tehran seized on the unrest as an opportunity to repay the British government for its criticism of human rights violations in Iran.

Human rights groups say dozens of activists were killed and thousands detained after Iran's disputed presidential elections in 2009, and there are widespread allegations of torture and rape inside the country's prisons.

This year Tehran was infuriated by British support for the appointment of a UN special rapporteur to investigate abuses.

A prominent conservative MP said Iran was ready to dispatch a group of experts to investigate "human rights violations" in the UK.

Hossein Ebrahimi, the deputy head of the parliamentary committee on national security and foreign policy, said Britain should facilitate the visit "without making false excuses", according to the English-language state-run Press TV.

"Ebrahimi said that the group of rapporteurs intend to interview political detainees and to give a report to international bodies on the treatment received by the protesters," the report said.

Iranian media sympathetic to the regime have portrayed the recent rioting and looting across London and other cities as social unrest fuelled by living conditions and police mistreatment of the poor.

Iranian MPs condemned what they described as police violence . "An Iranian majlis [parliament] national security and foreign policy subcommittee has urged the UK to immediately stop violent treatment of people protesting the killing of a black man," Press TV reported on Tuesday.

According to Press TV, Mohammad Karim Abedi, the vice-chairman of the parliamentary committee "urged London to order the police to stop treating protesters violently".

Iran's semi-official Fars news agency, which is affiliated to the elite revolutionary guards, has given extensive coverage to the rioting and looting across Britain. "We advise the monarchical regime of Britain to respect the rights of its people by avoiding savage behaviour," Fars quoted Seyed Hossein Naqavi, an Iranian MP of the parliamentary human rights committee, as saying.

According to Fars, Naqavi said: "The British people have come to the streets to protest at the security forces' deliberate gunfire at Duggan."

Press TV said Naqavi had also condemned what he called the UK's "double standards towards human rights".

Iranian opposition and reformist newspapers have distanced themselves from the official reaction to the UK riots.

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Originally Posted by Sprung

You crumpet eaters need to stop your temper tantrum.

You're killing my 401k.

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They gotta have tea time soon...

http://wifi-pirate.com/wp-content/up...h4-199x300.jpg

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Originally Posted by Dr Mario

Because those only work on larger protests that actually stay in one place long enough to bring in the gear. Not small looting mobs that pop up, tear the crap out of things and then flee.

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Large water cannons would be cumbersome to move around, but canisters of tear gas and rifles loaded with rubber bullets would be nothing more than any soldier carries into combat.

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Originally Posted by Mistral

The Met alone does not have have the manpower to handle something like this, but the central authorities have authorized the use of rubber bullets and called up officers from all over the Greater London area and beyond (including Cleveland and Northumbria, for heaven's sakes). It's completely unprecedented as far as how much manpower they're shoving into London to crush this thing.



Oh, and on the lighter side...

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I agree, they don't have the manpower using the methods of control they are using. They aren't even employing common methods of handling a situation like this. If this happened in the US, they would be using tear gas and firing rubber bullets and bean bags at looters. This whole situation is turning into a farce for the London Metro. They are failing at protecting the businesses and citizens from this thuggery.

If Britain ever had a large scale revolt, they would be inept at dealing with it and their government would probably collapse.

And why can't the London Metro get assistance from the military if they are undermanned? There are procedures in place in the US should martial law be declared in a situation like this.

And its ironic how Iran complains about police brutality in the UK, when they aren't even employing methods anywhere near as harsh as the US would be employing in a similar situation. They aren't even firing rubber bullets. And Iran has no room to talk, they fire real ammunition at their protesters.

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Originally Posted by crimsonedge

Large water cannons would be cumbersome to move around, but canisters of tear gas and rifles loaded with rubber bullets would be nothing more than any soldier carries into combat.

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You do realise that police aren't soldiers, right? And that loosely firing tear gas and rubber bullets into populated areas is a really bad idea when half the reason people are pissed off is that the MET are seen as a bunch of heavy-handed thugs?

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Originally Posted by Dr Mario

You do realise that police aren't soldiers, right? And that loosely firing tear gas and rubber bullets into populated areas is a really bad idea when half the reason people are pissed off is that the MET are seen as a bunch of heavy-handed thugs?

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In the US such measures would have already been employed. It is the responsibility of the police to maintain law and order. And sometimes being heavy handed is required, just like in a situation like this.

And in a country that already spies on its citizens with more CCTV cameras in London than in any other city in the world, you figure its already a borderline police state, they just need a heavy handed police force to top it all off.

Maybe the Silent Guardian is the answer?

Spoiler warning:

http://www.raytheon.com/capabilities...lent_guardian/

And no, it's not a superhero :wacko:

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Originally Posted by Sprung

You crumpet eaters need to stop your temper tantrum.

You're killing my 401k.

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Hell, Google 'Wisconsin State Fair Riots'.

I'm guessing that it isn't a coincidence that of the first 3 results for that, 2 are white supremacist sites.

*Googles 'Wisconsin State Fair Riots' and bookmarks some stuff*

At least Philadelphia's mayor isn't afraid to speak out-
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...er-flash-mobs/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/au...r-cannon-riots

They don't hesitate to employ these methods against the Irish. Why are they pissing around with these rioters?

Different kind of protest *points to earlier comment* and a social climate that'd take a million years to explain.

The short version of which is more or less "it's easier to get away with hosing down people that aren't citizens of your country".

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Originally Posted by Raype

Different kind of protest *points to earlier comment* and a social climate that'd take a million years to explain.

The short version of which is more or less "it's easier to get away with hosing down people that aren't citizens of your country".

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I think its more down the lines that they don't want to hose down Black people because they are too afraid of being labeled racist. I don't care, let the chaos continue.

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Originally Posted by deadlegion

Maybe the Silent Guardian is the answer?

Spoiler warning:

http://www.raytheon.com/capabilities...lent_guardian/

And no, it's not a superhero :wacko:

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Too big, get me something smaller :D

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Originally Posted by crimsonedge

I think its more down the lines that they don't want to hose down Black people because they are too afraid of being labeled racist. I don't care, let the chaos continue.

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If you don't think that opening up on a protest in Northern Ireland of all places (one spurred by the arrest of P-IRA members at that) isn't going to get you hit with the bigotry card, you're genuinely clueless about the social situation there.

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Originally Posted by Dr Mario

If you don't think that opening up on a protest in Northern Ireland of all places (one spurred by the arrest of P-IRA members at that) isn't going to get you hit with the bigotry card, you're genuinely clueless about the social situation there.

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I never said bigotry, the word I used was racist. Nice straw man you are setting up there.

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Originally Posted by crimsonedge

I never said bigotry, the word I used was racist. Nice straw man you are setting up there.

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-Edited-

C'mon Saril, that wasn't necessary, while you're free to disagree on his comments and you don't feel like continue to argue with him, insulting him won't change anything.

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Originally Posted by Fer!

.. insulting him won't change anything.

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It'll make me feel better :curses:

I was gonna post something here, but no longer have any damn clue what it's about anymore.

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Originally Posted by Zaladane

I was gonna post something here, but no longer have any damn clue what it's about anymore.

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Originally Posted by crimsonedge

I don't care, let the chaos continue.

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:banana:

As a clever Retro member observed, I'm pretty sure anyone with half a brain has already walked away from this conversation. And since it's been a few days without any decent posts as a result, it's probably a perfect opportunity to prevent any further trolling and nonsense.