When it all goes download only I'll probably go back to the Saturn, Dreamcast, N64 and PS1. So many classic games I never played. :ahhh:
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When it all goes download only I'll probably go back to the Saturn, Dreamcast, N64 and PS1. So many classic games I never played. :ahhh:
I approve of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno.
I'm a collector, I've mentioned it before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gare
Go wank off.
I've already played basically every SNES, Megadrive and PS1 game I ever wanted to play since emulators came out. Several were released in Japan only, but had a translation available. Some of the best RPGs on the SNES weren't even released in the US. I even played a Chrono Trigger rom hack called Crimson Echoes that was really good. If I didn't know any better I would have thought Square-Enix made it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno.
Pretty much this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jase
There is a noticeable difference between DX9, 10, and 11. Computers CAN do more, it's not just some arbitrary declaration. Here's a fun feature that no tablet has: A disc drive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Constipated Rat
I think we're talking way too far into the future here. Games are not going all download in the next five years. There's no way I'm downloading 10 gbs+ of crap on my console every time I want a new game. Anybody with a bad connection would be furious. Give it like 30 years, then maybe. I foresee them simply making something better than a disk and it becoming the new game distribution method of choice. It would load faster and hold more. Otherwise you'd need to fork over a crap load of extra cash for a console with a ton of memory in order to play the "next-gen" games (not to mention going back to the requirement of a high-speed connection. It'll take more than 5 years for -everybody- to have a high-speed connection).
I'm not spending money on something I can't get a physical copy of.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gare
With a pirated copy, I can install and play at my leisure, without needing internet access or another program running, and back it up as many times as I like.
There is indeed a difference but it is usually shown as a demo of its power in a modern game at that time, but then seemingly fades out and is barely used again, just lightly used, like DX10 was in games around it time. And the funnier thing is, at the time it usually hammers the pc when gaming if it is used to its full extent, so what is the purpose of doing it?, Also most of the major changes are only implemented to show you how games will look and why you should run to the pc store and buy a new card. But truth is, it is nothing more than a refinement to help the pc run games better(more easily) and a sales pitch to make you buy more stuff, for example when MS came out with DX10 in '06 it was Vista only. So you can see what they want you to do... buy Vista!!.. OH, and obviously a newer card that supports it. It's a fucking joke!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Shardnax
And the whole DX11 thing with its tessellation, again its a pc thing even though it does have some relevance it is still focused at helping the pc keep afloat in a bad way, not in a progressive way. It is just a hidden graphic handling process. Of course this can be used to better things in future, but only the real fast cards can make good use of it, so its kinda pointless, almost like Physix, it kills the cpu and for some just better than basic physical movement. Why don't they bring this stuff out when it works properly.. the answer is because they need a reason to make you go buy their yearly GPU updated card. Look at the Radeon 6000 series, what is the difference between that and the 5000 series, very little is the answer... so why do they bother- again it just another pointless attempt to keep the pc industry afloat. Then you look at the other ripoff tricks like Vista to Win 7... or the GTX480 to the 580..... can you believe people actually go out and re-buy stuff, because it is meant to be what the previous version was? And this is the PC's claim to fame over the last few years and what is keeps it afloat. A fucking ripoff industry
Its sad when you think about it, but it WILL die within the next 10yrs., it has nothing going for it and the newer consoles will kill all its bullshit once and for all. And you can quote me on that.
WTF!! just like the other zombie bastards, you too don't know how to read and understand a point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shardnax
Why are you saying that?....tablets don't/wont need a disk drive since they will be used for common things.. your pc will be used for other things. How many more times am I going to have to point this out.
PC's will still exist but there will be no need to use them as much as we do today, since tablets will cover a wide range of there tasks, as some tablets do today, with ebay, youtube, facebook skype, and other general browsing etc... *sigh*
All these factors change the industry , just like Netbooks have put a huge dent in laptop sales, people realise they dont need some things on a laptop and buy a Netbook instead, and see how that affects the laptop industry... things change, and all these newer things make PC's more redundant by the year. But of course they still have some use, but not much most of the time, thats why I think only 1 will be needed per household.
Pretty much my position on things. If you're going to make me pay for just a license and then force me to use all kinds of crap JUST to get the game running, then I will NOT pay for your license and pirate it instead, with all the crap removed. And you know what? I'm sure it'll run more stable than your official paid release.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shardnax
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shardnax
I see where you're coming from, but you guys are assuming that digital distribution = only Steam. Example: I got the digital version of The Witcher 2 from game.co.uk. I basically got the required install files. I can install and play the game without having to run another program like Steam, and it can be backed up as many times as you want, like burning it to a DVD. Even their FAQ section tells you this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeolus Aeneas
I'm NOT saying that if it goes all digital I'll be pirating everything. Far from it; if they don't treat me like a criminal right off the bat and show some goddamned common sense when it comes to backing things up, then they deserve my money. But if you're going to treat me like dirt and screw my computer up with DRM, then I'll just steal and get a version with all that crap removed.
Yeah..... No. Why would I waste money on a tablet when my computer can do the same, and much, much more?Quote:
Originally Posted by Constipated Rat
Well why sit at a computer most of the time(usually most people sit on the Net) when you can use the computer when needed and use the tablet for the Net stuff. Giving you a better ability to communicate when you want too, instead of having to boot a pc or keep it running everytime you need to check up or do some browsing or wanna check email and stuff...
Its the future, and is going to be made simple.
Wait, people turn their computers off? Since when?!
I predict that game companies are going to get increasingly more anal with DRMs and trying to control the usage of their products. I expect to see some pretty crazy over the top things done in the next 5 years. And I also expect to be laughing when pirates just crack it pre-release or on day 1. Also, piracy will continue to be on the rise, as they start demanding more money for games even when most aren't even worth the bandwidth to pirate, let alone pay $60+ dollars for.
Only thing that might stop or slow down piracy, is if everyone had to download 40+GB to play a blu-ray game, unless you got really good internet, it will take you a month to download that game. File sizes are going to increase to that size far before average internet speeds catch up to deal with it. Where as right now pirating with a good internet connection is almost instant gratification. It won't be like this forever.
I like having a keyboard and mouse, and a monitor of decent size.Quote:
Originally Posted by Constipated Rat
News to me :wacko:.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeolus Aeneas
I agree that DRM is bullshit, not to mention terribly ineffective. In the case of the Witcher 2 it was actually affecting performance and loading times, so they removed it in the first official patch. :wacko: Too bad not every company thinks like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeolus Aeneas
Future tablets may also be able to hook up to TVs wirelessly and the tablet will then switch and become a keyboard and mouse interface, Wii U style. It will be in the settings to do this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shardnax
.......Also I think downloadable conrtent is too risky IMO. Hackers will tear the security to pieces.
They need to bring out a "locked down" disc format for consoles, where games can only be read on the consoles and not copied. I can't understand why they dont atleast do this now, as it does sound simple when you think about it.
A tamperproof Disk drive, CPS3 style. Even if they get 5yrs out of it, its something.
GDIs can only be read by Dreamcast :whistle:.Quote:
Originally Posted by Constipated Rat
GDIs can only be read by Dreamcast :whistle:.Quote:
Originally Posted by Constipated Rat
Yeah, but because it also read CD's, that was it's drawback, that you could put the GD dump onto a CD and boot it.
This console will need to play nothing but this disc format. and pcs wont be able to burn or read these disks or interface the disk drive to make dumps. They really just need to enforce the patent heavily enough to stop this happening.
Sony effectively owns the BluRay format. If you look inside your fancy BluRay player, maybe it's branded as Phillips, Pioneer, whatever. Look at the labeling on the lens or the casing around it. Sony. Look on the BluRay site's FAQ page. The only thing in all caps is PLAYSTATION 3. Sony initiated the development of the medium, paid for the majority of its development, provided the personnel, and are reaping the benefits. It's revenge for the failure of Betamax.Quote:
Originally Posted by luffy4
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/5697Quote:
Originally Posted by Constipated Rat
http://www.gamespy.com/articles/492/492075p1.html
All I'll say about that.
360 discs (HDDVD) can only be read in the 360 and in a very specific version of PC disk drive with a custom firmware.Quote:
Originally Posted by Constipated Rat
Same with Wii and GC discs, when they came out. And neither of those consoles read other disc formats normally.
I looked at your links, but what do you mean "All I'll say about that".. are you agreeing with me?Quote:
Originally Posted by Colamisu
I'm only asking since you quoted me and posted it.
The 360 reads and plays DVD movies also which in some cases are dual layer.. The Wii was gonna be made as a dvd player so the drive supports it, but they held back on it, but hackers brought it out of it and made it do it, so the softmod makes it read burnt DVD's and play the games. But yeah the GC is a good example, that worked against pirates AFAIK, couldnt be bothered googling to ind out if it was hacked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colamisu
You can't just burn a 360 game to a DL DVD and play it on a 360. The Gamecube uses mini-DVDs, it isn't some specialized format.Quote:
Originally Posted by Constipated Rat
Fuck, I know that mate*rolls eyes*.. but as you know, it IS hacked and plays burnt dual layer DVD games. I know I do it myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shardnax
OK, well in that case, who are you telling that too, me or Colamisu?... it was probably the disk size and all that other shit that put hackers off bothering to mess with it, they prob could have hacked it if wanted. But the PS2 and Xbox hack scene stole its thunder..... so whatever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shardnax
This is confusing, is there a system out there that its drive reads only its unique game format and that has been hacked to play burnt games?
I know the Atari Jaguar CD discs hold like 890MB or something silly.
Not sure if it's relevant, but hey!
That was too fucking shit to hack lol. No one would buy the games, that is if you could find someone with a Jag, or even better someone with the Jag and it's CD attachment to sell the games too.
They should make a square game disk, one that sets into the drive and instead of spinning it will have 4 lasers or maybe even 2 that track each side or maybe even pivot like spotlights and talk to each other(think of the loading times it will save) And you can't fit a square peg into a round hole/divet, so no other drive can take the disk. It would be like an uber fututristic cartridge interfaced by lasers instead of pins. But the drive itself also has to be interface-proof so game dumps can't be made, that is the tricky part. Once a dump is made the drive will be bypassed and games played on a hard drive or SD card or through network port
For the record, I didn't mean to sound like a dick earlier. My whole thing is if I have a choice between paying and not paying for the exact same thing I'm going to chose not paying. Unless of course punishment for it becomes feasible. Also by bonus physical content I meant stuff that comes with LEs and whatnot. I like soundtracks, figures, art books etc...and buy them anyway but it's quite nice when I can get them pre-packaged with the game which is something that would go away if the industry became download only and I'd have to buy all of it individually. :/
Just how old are you? :wacko:Quote:
Originally Posted by Colamisu
LOL @ Atari Jaguar
N Gage QD had no way of pirating the games, I don't think. You could pirate the games for the original N Gage because it has an SD card slot whereas the QD doesn't.
Even I remember Beta, and I'm only 27.
... Shut up...
I remember Betamax and I'm 20?
I'm 23 and I've actually seen Beta tapes because my grandma owns some. But yeah I only know it even exists because of much older people.
Look at the dates on the articles. 2001. The "death of PC gaming" has been heralded by reporters, analysts, and etc. since there has been PC gaming. PC gaming will never die until PCs themselves die. And I don't see that happening in our lifetime.Quote:
Originally Posted by Constipated Rat
Neither of those are relevant. There is no way to play unintended content on an unmodded 360 through use of its ability to read and play DVD movies, therefore the ability to read DVD movies does not affect whether or not the console is secure. The Wii has the capability to read DVD movies, but it is disabled by the firmware by default. Therefore, the ability to read DVD movies does not affect whether or not the console is secure.Quote:
The 360 reads and plays DVD movies also which in some cases are dual layer.. The Wii was gonna be made as a dvd player so the drive supports it, but they held back on it, but hackers brought it out of it and made it do it, so the softmod makes it read burnt DVD's and play the games. But yeah the GC is a good example, that worked against pirates AFAIK, couldnt be bothered googling to ind out if it was hacked.
There are mod chips for the Gamecube, same as there are for the Wii, 360, PS2, PS1, etc. There's no free-ish way to mod it like there is with the PS2/360/Wii because there's not really any software running on it, but it is moddable. Basically the thing that makes this hardware cycle so easy to mod is not the insecurity of the media, but the reliance on a console operating system which, by definition, will be vulnerable to some sort of software attack.
22. I've never actually seen a Betamax tape myself, but I'm aware of it. I've picked up a bit of the history of modern consumer electronics through my many journeys through the internet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gypsy
The PS3 lasted quite a while before getting hacked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Constipated Rat
@colamisu
That article had a stronger emphasis by the fact the xbox had a hard drive and went online etc. I personally see pc gaming next to gone in ten yrs time.
Also what you say about the consoles reading dvds. That is very relevant because it simply means if you mod it to boot burnt unsigned media etc, and because it reads dvds it will boot games on a dvd. Just like the dreamcast read CDs and booted GD rom games from cd instead if gd disk. So what the disk drive reads influiences how it can be used against its self, just like the Wii. And of course I mean once its been modded to do so.
It's impossible to make a console completely secure.
I still say PC gaming will never disappear as long as we use PCs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Constipated Rat
I don't particularly care about the main content of the article. My only point is that it said that PC gaming died 10 years ago, and we're still playing PC games now.
Yes, you're right. If you mod it to boot burnt unsigned media, it will read it. But you don't use it's ability to read DVDs in order to make it read unsigned media.
Let me clarify. It is not the disc drive's ability to read DVDs that makes it possible to play burned games on the 360 or Wii. The console's primary input is a form of optical disc. Therefore, if you modify the console to accept some sort of optical media other than the intended optical media, it will be able to run unsigned media through that disc drive. It doesn't matter if it's a BluRay drive that cannot read CDs or DVDs. Because they are all optical media, the laser lens inside the disc has the ability to read the data on it. It's simply a matter of the firmware telling the rest of the machine that any data stored on discs other than the intended format is junk data. By modifying the drive's firmware in some way, be it a mod chip or plugging the drive into a computer and flashing it, you allow it to use any type of media that the disc drive can read.
Let's use an extended metaphor. Imagine you have a book. It's written in English. That's fantastic. Your friend brings over a book he wants you to borrow. The book is in Farsi. You say to your friend, "Shit, man. I can't read this. I don't even know what those symbols are!" So you learn how to read Farsi. Suddenly, you can read a book that's written in Farsi.
The parallel is simple. The physical requirements for reading the data exist (eyes/laser lens). All you need is the ability to read it (language/software).
But perhaps that's a stretch. So let's say we use a different form of media. Create a new type of media specifically for your console that no consumer machine on the market has the ability to read. Voila! The DS. The DS uses a completely unique form of media. And it was one of the easiest "consoles" to hack. All they had to do was learn how to connectors between the cartridge and the console transfer data. I doubt they even did that, though. I imagine the first DS flash cards were simply retail carts with the data chips inside replaced or flashed. A minor feat of electrical engineering, and the security of your unique media format is nullified.
Even if there wasn't some way to access an SD card on a console like the DS, if there is any kind of input that accepts data, it can be modded to run unintended content. That includes things like the USB ports on all modern consoles, the SD slot on the Wii, and even things you would never think of, like the bloody Serial port on the back of the PS1. Even if you have some completely unique media, like your example of the "square discs" or whatever it is, there will eventually be a device available to consumers that can either create said discs or remove the need for them.
The most difficult would be something that uses only digital distribution. Then you'd have to open up the console and flash the chip with a different IP for the download server. Or remove whatever storage they give you and fill it by connecting to a computer.
But really, it's not feasible to make a completely secure form of media for a console. If they want it completely secure, the distribution media has to be proprietary, the in-console storage medium has to be proprietary, and all of the connectors have to be proprietary. It's simply not financially viable for a company to completely discard current standards, either from a support point of view or from a development point of view.
that is a good point, but this is the future we are talking about also. So yes, it will probably be many years still. But it will happen, says I.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colamisu
...at a nearby Hospital, in a deep state of coma, ultimately dying.
Too much realism god damn it, this is what kills gaming!