PSX backups with "out of sync" music?

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1st-April-2012, 19:06
ventaak

PSX backups with "out of sync" music?

I posted this on another popular forum, but it's been a about a month and haven't received any replies. Thought i would try here.

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This is something that I've been wondering about for ages, but I've never gotten around to finding a definitive answer.

There are some early PSX games that you can put in a CD Player/Stereo and you will hear the game's music playing like you had just popped in a regular music CD. Off the top of my head, some of these are Rayman, Wipeout, and Ridge Racer.

What's been puzzling me is I've noticed when you try to burn these games to disc, the sound is out of sync. For example, with an original Ridge Racer game disc, just as the race is about to begin, a random selection of the game's music will start playing. However, with a backup of the game, the music either:

A) Won't start at all.
B) Start after 30 or so seconds.
C) Start in the middle of a song or near the middle.
D) Play the first 12 seconds of a song looping over and over.
E) Or some other random thing.

My question is, is it possible to create a perfect working backup of these types of games where the music plays exactly when it's supposed to or is it impossible? If it's possible, can you point me to a guide on how to do it?

For reference, I've tried 120% and Imgburn, but no luck. Also, I play my backups on a PSOne with an MM3 chip I installed.
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12th-April-2012, 22:24
camb702

Some suggestions:

- Ensure the image you're burning is verified 1:1 (visit redump.org for a dumping guide)
- Burn on good quality media w/azo dye (e.g. Verbatim)
- Burn at x4 or lower
- Use a decent burner (laptop/slimline drives aren't generally reliable for psx playback)
- Clean your psx lens using a cotton bud and 99.9% isopropyl alcohol (isopropanol)
13th-April-2012, 00:46
Sheik

What about Gauntlet Legends [NTSC-U] (ePSXe)
(I cannot find an original copy near me and I hate online shopping)
The music: Never starts, the end and it really f***'s with me on a personal level. I love that game and to not hear it's music is a bit disheartening.
14th-April-2012, 11:00
camb702

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwordOfTime

What about Gauntlet Legends [NTSC-U] (ePSXe)
(I cannot find an original copy near me and I hate online shopping)
The music: Never starts, the end and it really f***'s with me on a personal level. I love that game and to not hear it's music is a bit disheartening.

It's either an emulation issue and/or a bad dump. Eliminate the later by visiting nitroroms to obtain a perfect dump. Check the hash values with those on redump.org to verify that the dump is valid. You'll then need to mount the image (DTLite) and use an appropriate CD plugin to play on ePSXe if the image is contains multiple tracks.

If you're still experiencing the same issues in ePSXe, try it on real hardware (I'm not intimately familiar with ePSXe/emulation).

One further suggestion for burning:

Do NOT use Alcohol for recording. It is known to have problems with cue sheet parsing and therefore will produce incorrect copies (virtual drive function works fine though).

Recommended programs are: ImgBurn (freeware), BlindWrite, CDRWIN.
15th-April-2012, 19:25
Zorlon

Make sure your backups are not region patched this will make sure that sound is not out of sync, also patching the region can cause some games to just crash out totally because they get out of sync because they are forced to run at the wrong framerate

It's fine to run other region games however as long as either your TV supports both 50hz and 60hz so the games are played in colour, don't rely on a mod chip changing 50hz to 60hz either this will cause the same issues as patching does.

I would also go with imgburn for burning and ripping nowerdays, it's free and one of the best burning proggies out there.

Don't go for bin+wav (and other lossless formats) versions unless these are verified with redump.org (direct bin+cue dumps should be fine aslong as they are done from the original media, not all will be though there will be some idiot that has made these from another CD Image format) bin+mp3 versions are almost always going to be out of sync and many other wierd formats of sound will unless they are lossless sound formats.

Can't say I have had many issues using my laptop drive for burning so I guess I'm lucky there, but I would prefure a quality external to an internal laptop drive though but you deal with what you have I guess.
15th-April-2012, 21:36
camb702

I've come across some horrendous dumps in my time. Ensuring the image is 1:1 is the 1st place to start. Eliminate the issue down to as few variables as possible from there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorlon

Can't say I have had many issues using my laptop drive for burning so I guess I'm lucky there, but I would prefure a quality external to an internal laptop drive though but you deal with what you have I guess.

I've never had much luck with slimline drives in any shape or form.
16th-April-2012, 18:10
Zorlon

Had more issues with my Sony desktop burning drives than any others to be honest, I can't realy advise to stay away from those though as others have had no issues, just not had much luck with those drives

Anyway getting a lil off subject

Anyway the other issue to look for is copy protection, but most have patches for them (Not all) [The protection comes in all forms, it's a bugger though as some games will seem to work normal then freeze out and just how some copy protection works white other games will just give you a warning screen thing (red circle with a line through it or something) some just will not let you go too far into a game but let you play it a lil bit (act almost like a demo version), alot just will not boot]

The above may be spoofed by newer mod chips I honestly have not looked that far into it, but even modern emulators like ePSXe and every other PSX emulator you will need to patch your games for them to work (I know ePSXe and other can auto patch providing you have the patch file stored in the correct location but this still patches the game data [just does it on the fly])

I also use an olde PSone with a mod chip installed though mine is not perfect (I did get it done when the lil white thing was released though) I can't play originals on mine, only backups and only backups with my region boot code (something different to region display) [I'm sure I could fix the issues but I don't wanna, I don't use it half as much as I used to anyway] anyway the only time I have had sync problems, it was due to display patching, that I stopped doing when I realised it was screwing up some of the games and opted to just patching the boot code and going with a RGB scart connection to get imports in colour without having to patch anything

Before that I used a back port mod on the even older gray PSX infact still have about 3 of those and an official Action Replay 3.X that I hacked (Actually has GameShark software on it now (lost the hack I used and could only find the gameshark version [only real difference is that it displays NTSC insteal of PAL]))

ePSXe can have it's own issues, though I do use it for testing myself, not all the results can be counted as accurate as there are too many things that can cause slow downs in ePSXe and eventually make it go out of sync (often just setting that can be fixed but finding what needs to be fixed can get tricky at times, even for those that know the emulator very well (I would still recomend it as the best out there though ;)))
16th-April-2012, 18:42
camb702

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorlon

Anyway the other issue to look for is copy protection...

Good catch. I'd forgotten about that. EDC (Error Detection and Correction) can be bypassed with any decent modchip. Anti-modchip protection can easily be bypassed as well with a stealth modchip or by applying a corresponding patch.

The only other form of copy protection to look out for is libcrypt where sub-channels are used to store non-Yellow Book data. To my knowledge, only some European games had this implemented. I'm not familiar with circumvention measures if you're looking to play these discs on real hardware (emulation should be fine) but I do know some games exhibit playback issues when you try and copy such discs. I know the redump method doesn't currently support libcrypt in disc emulation or burning software; CloneCD claims to; Nero doesn't ad nauseum ad infinitum.

For this very reason, I tend to steer clear of PAL releases wherever possible (shoddy 50Hz conversions not withstanding).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorlon

ePSXe can have it's own issues, though I do use it for testing myself...

Same. I prefer the real deal.
16th-April-2012, 20:05
ddrXero64

I will be completely honest, I don't have any helpful input to the OP's question. I do want to say though you guys know your stuff (and props to that), if the OP doesn't find the answer here then I don't know what other forum could help him out (as promptly and precisely as you guys did).

Just wanted to give credit where credit is due.

Edit: Well it took 11 days to get a response, but it's better than a month with 0 replies lawl
19th-April-2012, 21:32
Zorlon

Quote:

Originally Posted by camb702

CloneCD claims

For this very reason, I tend to steer clear of PAL releases wherever possible (shoddy 50Hz conversions not withstanding).

Patches can bypass most protection, very few games have yet to be cracked and remain protected & lib-crypt is found in the odd NTSC game, funny thing is PAL versions of the same games don't have protection, yet alot of other PAL games do have Lib-Crypt but the NTSC versions of the same games don't.. shrugs just seemed a lil odd to me, anyway I'm sure I left a link in one of the sticky thread that points to an old list of copy protected games, one that I have looked at many a time, comes in hany anyway

I am unfortionatly from a PAL region though I tend to use a RGB Scart connection for my PSone that allows me to play 60Hz games on my PAL TV set (Well I have a multi Regional TV now but Scart still displays best for the PSone anyway :D)

yeah I realy can't see CloneCD being helpful, ever. It will add subdata to everything even if this is from a Virtual drive with a Bin+Cue attached, so to me it makes the sub data file up.

Before I forget about there is a hany boot disc out there called Import Player Lite (I definatly have that one linked in the Sony Files sticky) that can be used for regional patching that I would advise against but it also has some minor.

The only other way to bypass protection including Lib-Crypt is via Action Replay/Other Cheat device (GameShark in NTSC/U/60Hz regions).
19th-April-2012, 23:20
camb702

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorlon

lib-crypt is found in the odd NTSC game...

Strange. I haven't come across one yet. Are you sure?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorlon

I am unfortionatly from a PAL region though I tend to use a RGB Scart connection for my PSone that allows me to play 60Hz games on my PAL TV set (Well I have a multi Regional TV now but Scart still displays best for the PSone anyway :D)

RGB is the only reliable way to go, yes.
(:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorlon

yeah I realy can't see CloneCD being helpful, ever. It will add subdata to everything even if this is from a Virtual drive with a Bin+Cue attached, so to me it makes the sub data file up.

MDF is even worse since it uses 2448 bytes/sector instead of 2352 (it interleaves subchannel data into the main data track). The hell is up with that??? A pain in the arse if you're trying to repair bad dumps. I honestly wish people would stop using them both.