Graphic Cards

[polobunny]

If you meant difference between Geforce 6800GT and Geforce 6800GT AGP, the *only* different is the connector used. A motherboard *only* have one, AGP of PCI-Express. Normally when they don't talk about the connector it is what's more powerful/recent, in this case it's PCI-e.

[Das98]

For maybe half the price you can get the Radeon 9800 PRO 128mb which has about the same performance as the 6800 128mb, but does not have 3.0 shaders. (it's 2.0)

About the same performance. :eyeball: At lower resolutions and without filters maybe, but the 6800 128MB outperforms the 9800 128MB Pro by a decent amount otherwise.

Check out several pages of benchmarks on each of these sites.
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/...6800/page4.asp
http://graphics.tomshardware.com/gra...s-pcie-02.html
http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_cont...msi6800&page=6

Plus most cards are able to unlock the extra pixel shader and extra 4 pipelines which increases the performance even more.

But yeah, a Radeon X800GT 256Mb AGP would be a better deal if you could find it at the same price, which you can.
SAPPHIRE Radeon X800GT 256MB
Albatron 6800 Geforce 6800 128MB
Apollo Geforce 6800 128MB

If you add Radeons, only MY power rating from what i could see and no shaders and stuff...

Geforce 6600 128mb (close behind V this one) ~100$ US
Radeon 9600XT 128mb (close in front of ^ this one) ~76$
Radeon 9800 Pro 128mb (1/4th more powerful than ^ this one) ~105$
Geforce 6800 128mb (an ounce more powerful than ^ this one) ~175$
Geforce 6600GT 128mb (1/4th more powerful than ^ this one) ~140$
Radeon X800 128mb (1/8th more powerful than ^ this one) ~really rare on AGP, can vary alot
Radeon X800 256mb (1/10th more powerful than ^ this one) ~200$
Geforce 6800GT 128mb (1/8th more powerful than ^ this one) ~250$

So yeah 1 on top is the less powerful, and hope this table helps. Price are in US but they obviously can vary depending on the rarity of certain brands in certain regions. I excluded BRANDED ATI's as they are always overpriced. I took Sapphire prices for Radeons.

I think your basing those benchmarks on lower resolutions without filtering. If you turn up the resolution and turn filters on the Geforce cards will perform a bit better than you gave them credit due to the higher memory bandwidth when compared with the ATI equivalent, which is what most people would likely do with cards like those since they're plenty powerful to do so on most games. Most of the comparable ATI cards have higher chip clocks than their Nvidia counterparts in the same price range and the Nvidia cards have higher memory bandwidths due to their financial ATI counterparts. I still think the order wouldn't change much though. It should be noted that a 6800 is better in performance than a 6600GT and the 6600 is better than the worst two Radeon cards on your list at higher resolutions with 4xFSAA(Full Screen Anti-Aliasing or Full Scene Anti-Aliasing ) and 8xAF(Anisotropic Filtering). Just check out the links to benchmarks I provided.

Phuzin, the best deal in what looks to be your price range I think is the Radeon X800GT 256Mb AGP in my opinion, it all comes down to cost vs. performance.

Edit: Oh yeah Phuzin, you could seriously use more ram too.

[polobunny]

Actually most of the scores there are based on 3Dmark2005 overall scores. 3Dmark2005 overall scores don't know how to lie.
We're also talking about the 6800 128mb in it's AGP format, where it really heats up fast and slow down to a crawl in no time even in the best ventilated cases, see ThermalTake Shark. As you said however the 4 pipelines can be unlocked from software and they really do give a performance increase. I agree though that just a ounce was a bit of overkill. Shame on me.

Honestly I don't see the point to play a game in 1600x1200 with AA at 8X and AF at 16x...
Most games are more than exquisite in 1024x768 which is becoming the STD for games. STD not mean the best you can get, just meaning a good overall.
I'm rather interested by what resolution you're using to compare each of the cards...

These ratings are from live experiences and benchmarks which however couldn't be done on EXACT EXACT machines, most of the test were done on the same board (can't remember the name >__> Asus A8something :X ) AMD Athlon 64 3200+ with 1Gb of OC-Z Gold CAS2 and 2 RAID-1 80Gb SATA150mb/s 8mb buffer 7200rpm WD Caviar's. The case changed from an Antec SLK3800B to a ChenMing full tower alu. (sorry don't remember exact model) to a ThermalTake Shark to an Antec Overture always carrying the same Enermax 350W PSU (except in last tower.)
One time the board was changed to an ECS KN-1 Extreme which was rapidly changed because the mobo had too noisy fans.

Don't forget the video cards are not for GFX pros, they're for casual gamers looking for great performance at an abordable price. That said it's always good to have more than one opinion on a subject.

Also forgot to add XT aside the 256mb X800. Gneh. Good prices too at newegg. Too bad that when i needed them they weren't shipping to Canada. Oh, they're still not shipping to Canada.

[Das98]

Actually most of the scores there are based on 3Dmark2005 overall scores. 3Dmark2005 overall scores don't know how to lie.

I'd have to disagree about those 3Dmark2005 scores. I'll always take real gaming benchmarks over artificial benchmark programs. Most people won't get much enjoyment out of benchmarking their computer all day unless they're a little off. The best way to figure out how well games will run IMHO is to bench as close as possible to the real thing, which I think is by actually benching game demos and such.

We're also talking about the 6800 128mb in it's AGP format, where it really heats up fast and slow down to a crawl in no time even in the best ventilated cases, see ThermalTake Shark.

Yeah, the 6800 is really a crap shoot, some of them unlock well and run reasonably cool and some of them don't. It really depends on the cooler you have and a lot of stock coolers on 6800s just don't cut it. You have to make sure you get the right brand that provides a decent heatsink and fan and even then a lot have to be sent back because of heat problems. If you get a good card though they can be pretty good deals. The 6800 doesn't just heat up and slow down on all the cards though, those are the short end of the stick ones. Either way though, too much hassle for a typical user to deal with probably. I was just pointing out the performance difference.

Honestly I don't see the point to play a game in 1600x1200 with AA at 8X and AF at 16x...
Most games are more than exquisite in 1024x768 which is becoming the STD for games. STD not mean the best you can get, just meaning a good overall.
I'm rather interested by what resolution you're using to compare each of the cards...

I was comparing mainly to 1280x1024 or 960, but high resolutions in general. If a card can handle good frame rates why wouldn't you want better visuals?

Take a look at these insane shots of doom 3 and say 1024x768 is still exquisite.
1600x1200(not sure about the filters) and no these aren't my screenshots, I wish.

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/9003/doom327qf.jpg
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/3598/doom338iz.jpg
Make sure you expand those images. Damn, the last one is a little too large for image shack.
http://s36.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0ET9K7L7V5YLL2MJBIHLICCW2P
Good enough

Granted that those cards won't be pulling anything like that off, just making the point. Visuals can get a lot better than 1024x768, no matter what filters you use at that res.

That said it's always good to have more than one opinion on a subject.

The more the merrier, within reason. We don't need fan-boys spamming topics like this up. Definitely great to see insightful opinions though.

[Mishotaki]

sadly the mad high resolutions, while are great for graphics, usually use a fixed amount of pixels to display text... so in a 1600X1200 it's twice smaller in your screen compared to a 800X600

so in huge resolutions, they display some text... and is appears extremely small because you're using the same screen....
i'm staying in 1024X768 because of that... and that i need a new cpu...

[Das98]

sadly the mad high resolutions, while are great for graphics, usually use a fixed amount of pixels to display text... so in a 1600X1200 it's twice smaller in your screen compared to a 800X600

so in huge resolutions, they display some text... and is appears extremely small because you're using the same screen....
i'm staying in 1024X768 because of that... and that i need a new cpu...

I never really have that problem at 1280x960, I have good eyes and a decent size monitor though. If you've got a rig good enough to run games at 1600x1200 you should have a good sized monitor anyway.

[malice2501]

wow, my doom 3 screenshots look a bit better than those . I guess i should be happy with the system i have, cause i was thinking that mine was turd.

Amd Sempron 2800+ (2Ghz)
1GB RAM
Radeon X700 AGP 8X 256MB

I also have a good link for comparing cards, but it seems to be down at the moment. Ill post it when its up and running. Hope this helps (if its ever up again)

[polobunny]

The more the merrier, within reason. We don't need fan-boys spamming topics like this up. Definitely great to see insightful opinions though.

I love you, at least someone techy to talk with.
When i said overheating I was thinking alot about the Leadtek and MSI 6800GT, which are common brands we buy where I work. I guess i should have been clearer on that point.

I heard good reviews from eVGA cards (pipelines can be easily unlocked apparently on these cards) and tested a Gigabyte 6600GT (on PCI-e, and i don't think there is an APG version) which performed alot better than the usual 6800. The exact model for the Gigabyte is the GV NX66T128VP and it's cooled with heatsink/pipe only. That's a cool thing for noise but it heats up alot unfortunatly. The memory clock on this card runs at an incredible 1120mhz compared to the standard 1000mhz on 6600GT's. On 3DMARK05 it gave me around 6000 compared to the 3800 the other 6600GT's I tried gave.

[Phuzin]

I think im going 2 go for geforce 6600 gt....but will it overheat on agp?

Btw,i have upgraded my ram to 1 gb.

[polobunny]

The 1Gb is a good thing. Nah the 6600 core (NV43?!) itself doesn't heat as much as the 6800 core (NV40).
It's normal depending on the brand you choose to see the card go up to 80 degree celcius (176 F) but as usual in the PC world, cooler is better. Be sure your power supply can take the card power need, i'd recommend a good strong 300W minimum (see Enermax) or a cheap 450W.

[Phuzin]

umm...so it don't need any extra cooling fans（or anything else more）? cuz i heard in a lot of forums dat it overheats when they play games...and which part of the graphic card do i connect the power supply to? is it in the back of the cpu near the blue output switch?

[Das98]

I heard good reviews from eVGA cards (pipelines can be easily unlocked apparently on these cards) and tested a Gigabyte 6600GT (on PCI-e, and i don't think there is an APG version) which performed alot better than the usual 6800. The exact model for the Gigabyte is the GV NX66T128VP and it's cooled with heatsink/pipe only. That's a cool thing for noise but it heats up alot unfortunatly. The memory clock on this card runs at an incredible 1120mhz compared to the standard 1000mhz on 6600GT's. On 3DMARK05 it gave me around 6000 compared to the 3800 the other 6600GT's I tried gave.

6600s don't unlock AFAIK, are you talking about 6800s? I'm not sure what your referring to there.

Check out these benches.
http://graphics.tomshardware.com/gra...e_6600-31.html

The bench of the Gigabyte GeForce 6600 GT Turbo Force edition(GV-NX66T128VP) on this page shows 3325 in 3DMark05 running a basic test at a resolution of 1024 x 768. http://www.viaarena.com/default.aspx...&ArticleID=417 I think 3DMark05 has been fibbing.

Here's a forum with some peoples benches.
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum...fm/346516.html

With the info from those links that 3DMark05 score you got on that GV-NX66T128VP looks faulty. There doesn't seem to be that kind of a performance difference between it and most 6600GTs.

I think im going 2 go for geforce 6600 gt....but will it overheat on agp?

umm...so it don't need any extra cooling fans? cuz i heard in a lot of forums dat it overheats when they play games...and which part of the graphic card do i connect the power supply to? is it in the back of the cpu near the blue output switch?

Well, it depends on how well your system is ventilated. Most of the 6000 series GPUs(Graphics Processing Units) in general kinda require decent cooling and a lot of the stock fans from manufacturers aren't that great. Still, I wouldn't worry about it too much with the 6600GT.

A molex connector coming off your power supply would be the kind of connector your card needs if you get a card that requires one to be hooked to your vid card(a lot of cards do). You should have some laying there hanging off the power supply in your system already probably. I dought they're all in use.



Here's some cards to look at.
eVGA 128-A8-N350 Geforce 6600GT 128MB
Cheap card with a lot of good reviews.

XFX PVT43ANDF3 Geforce 6600GT 128MB
All the 6000 series XFX cards come with a double lifetime warranty if you live in the U.S. That means lifetime plus the lifetime of the owner you sell it to.
You can read more about the warranty here. http://www.xfxforce.com/web/support/...enerationId=40

I still think your much better off with a Radeon X800GT 256Mb though.

[X-EvansBasher-X]

I know this is off topic, but polobunny do you think this graphics card would be powerful enough to run ePSXe full screen at 800x600 + Stereo w/most options on? I'm thinking about a gc upgrade. specs will be for a P4 2.94GHz w/1GB ram. Adding a SB Audigy as soon as i can.

[Das98]

I know this is off topic, but polobunny do you think this graphics card would be powerful enough to run ePSXe full screen at 800x600 + Stereo w/most options on? I'm thinking about a gc upgrade. specs will be for a P4 2.94GHz w/1GB ram. Adding a SB Audigy as soon as i can.

That card easily sucks, especially for that price. It would run ePSXe great at that res though(any newer card would). Make sure you don't actually buy that. You can get a 6600 for a lot less than that site is charging. Don't be fooled by the 256MB.

[malice2501]

that damn web site i was talking about is finally back up. Enjoy guys

http://www.gpureview.com/