Questions about the bible/Christianity

[cometman008]

Common ground? Common Ground you say.

Common ground: Evolution makes no claims regarding God. As such, there is nothing preventing the religious idea that God worked through evolution. Several listed churches by madcrow have already accepted this, actually (most prominently the Roman Catholic). I only disagree with Intelligent Design when it is claimed as a scientific theory rather than potential theological doctrine. No one here specifically has done that, but I point out this particular disagreement of mine with ID because I have brought up ID in an earlier post in a similar context.

Seemed self-evident to me. The quote is, again:
�The only acceptable explanation is creation. I know that this is anathema to physicists, as indeed it is to me, but we must not reject a theory that we do not like if the experimental evidence supports it.�
As such, he is stating that creationism is supported by experimental evidence - that is, the creation of life by God, and by extension the existence of God (for how can life have been created by God without God), is proven by experimental evidence in science. This is patently absurd, as we have already agreed in our comments on how science cannot prove God.

Intelligent Design cannot be claimed as a scientific theory for one simple reason. The definition of scientific applies only to Naturalism, while Intelligent Design is looking at SUPERnaturalism. Intelligent Design is looking into evidence that is outside scientific Naturalism. Intelligent Design is challenging the current definition of scientific to apply to both Naturalism and SUPERnaturalism. The question is should we keep the current definition or change it like the world is expanding definitions to include a wider group of ideas and not to discriminate. Intelligent Design is only thinking outside the box and expanding the limits of traditional thinking.

Whether 1+1 = 2 is true is dependent on how you define 1, 2, and addition. So math wasn't a really good example here.

Math is a great example here. I used math properties because everyone knows what 1,2 and addition means. Math is a universal language that everyone one knows. The point was that only one answer is the correct one. while the other one was an obvious incorrect answer of truth. Although Moral Truths are hards to decern the correct absolute truth from the false one. Oh and if you say that you dont know what addition is, Ignorance still does not negate that true answer from being true. It just means your confused about the question.

that doesn't mean I will give you any quater.

Nor will I Xena. just a few problems with what you said.
Oh i was supporting you earlier

I said I believe god had all truths (no I cant prove it.) But I cant say I have all truths... people who think they know 100% absolute truths about everything are the stupid ones. I have learened a few truths over the years though.

The cave metaphor also conveys the meaning that you cannot turn around to watch the object. (I think he said that the people were tied so they can only look forward) Basically you only interpret reality with your senses/soul/mind, so you can not really know what it is.

True about the Cave metaphor thats why i said we need to some how be able to turn around and look at the source for the real truth as well as the way to turn around.
But I know you know that One person who knows them all and is them. /me Looks to the heavens points at God.

Thankyou for the Moses light comment.

1# I do not believe the ten commandments apply to me or any one else, they were annuled along time ago. I wont go into the major details, so sorry if you dont agree with this.

Its not me that has the problem with what you said but the Bible. (Jesus's own words)

The Fulfillment of the Law
Matthew 5:17-18 (New International Version)
17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

you might want to read Matthew again to find out what He really said. As well as Deuteronomy because that the only book that Christ Quoted when He was tempted by Satan. (might be something important in there ). Also Leviticus is almost completely about how to walk with God. God taught the isrealites directly what He requires.

If your best friend asked you to kill him, otherwise s/he would have to endure a great amount of pain, for no reason at all, what would you do? Yes, basically euthanasia.

Personally? Every moment on this Earth there is a reason why your here.
Romans 8:28
28And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him,[a] who[b] have been called according to his purpose.
Footnotes: Some manuscripts
Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God
Romans 8:28 Or works together with those who love him to bring about what is good�with those who
why would I try to work against God by doing that before His work is done. Every moment of life is precious even the times of hurt and pain. And more often then not its when your suffering that God talks to ya, or more accurately that you listen for Him.

[Xena]

Nor will I Xena. just a few problems with what you said.
Oh i was supporting you earlier

Somehow it seems to wash over me.

Thankyou for the Moses light comment.

Intresting no? No problem.

Its not me that has the problem with what you said but the Bible. (Jesus's own words)

The Fulfillment of the Law
Matthew 5:17-18 (New International Version)
17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

you might want to read Matthew again to find out what He really said. As well as Deuteronomy because that the only book that Christ Quoted when He was tempted by Satan. (might be something important in there ). Also Leviticus is almost completely about how to walk with God. God taught the isrealites directly what He requires.

From what iv'e learned.During the 1,545 years that the Law covenant was in operation toward the Jewish nation, from 1513 B.C.E. to 33 C.E., the faithful Jews rendered to Jehovah God what was �sacred service� acceptable to him. But when that Law covenant was abolished at the time that the glorified Jesus Christ mediated the new covenant in heaven in 33 C.E., the Mosaic Law covenant was no longer the means by which to render sacred service approved by Jehovah, the God of the new covenant.

In other words, the sacrifices were no longer needed because of Jesus' sacrifice, And so on.

Hebrews 8 : 10 - 13

For this is the covenant that I shall covenant with the house of Israel after those days,� says Jehovah. �I will put my laws in their mind, and in their hearts I shall write them. And I will become their God, and they themselves will become my people.
And they will by no means teach each one his fellow citizen and each one his brother, saying: �Know Jehovah!� For they will all know me, from [the] least one to [the] greatest one of them. For I shall be merciful to their unrighteous deeds, and I shall by no means call their sins to mind anymore.��
In his saying �a new [covenant]� he has made the former one obsolete. Now that which is made obsolete and growing old is near to vanishing away.

[pkt-zer0]

Math is a great example here. I used math properties because everyone knows what 1,2 and addition means. Math is a universal language that everyone one knows. The point was that only one answer is the correct one. while the other one was an obvious incorrect answer of truth. Although Moral Truths are hards to decern the correct absolute truth from the false one. Oh and if you say that you dont know what addition is, Ignorance still does not negate that true answer from being true. It just means your confused about the question.

Okay, once again, those equations only work, IF you take an axiomatic system for given. (Read Wikipedia entry on vector spaces if you want more detail). So, depending on how you define addition, 1+1 might equal 1, zero, or basically anything.
What I'm getting to is that by saying that, the direct implication would be is that IF you believe that God's truth is absolute, then sure, the rest of what you say will make perfect sense. But otherwise, they don't necessarily have a meaning.
That's why I think faith that derives itself from a single source cannot be strong. Just disprove its roots, and it all crumbles to nothing.
I'd rather accept basic truths because they seem to be true for hundreds of years, not just because someone said so. See the difference?

[cometman008]

Originally Posted by pkt-zer0
Okay, once again, those equations only work, IF you take an axiomatic system for given. (Read Wikipedia entry on vector spaces if you want more detail). So, depending on how you define addition, 1+1 might equal 1, zero, or basically anything.

Ok if you would like to get technical, i can i get technical. The basics or math or even vectors are based on fictious points in a finite space that never acctually never exists and have no mass. Then technically you can't measure those points and then have no real evidence scientifily to get any conclusions. The firm foundations of math arnt solid. Its really amazing that people take math for granted and dont research the true foundations of it.

Originally Posted by Xena
From what iv'e learned.During the 1,545 years that the Law covenant was in operation toward the Jewish nation, from 1513 B.C.E. to 33 C.E., the faithful Jews rendered to Jehovah God what was �sacred service� acceptable to him. But when that Law covenant was abolished at the time that the glorified Jesus Christ mediated the new covenant in heaven in 33 C.E., the Mosaic Law covenant was no longer the means by which to render sacred service approved by Jehovah, the God of the new covenant.

Ok, i understand where you are coming from, but i think you misunderstood the whole Covenant thing. When God made the Covenant the type of Covenant that was one that God him self made the promise by passing through the 2 haves of heifer, a goat and a ram siginfiying that the Covenant was perminent and because those animals could never be put back together (a view of their day) which really ment that the Promise could never be revoked. God did this alone. Note that abram is not apart of the covenant process look at Vs 12 and 17

Genesis 15:8-21
8 But Abram said, "O Sovereign LORD, how can I know that I will gain possession of it?" 9 So the LORD said to him, "Bring me a heifer, a goat and a ram, each three years old, along with a dove and a young pigeon." 10 Abram brought all these to him, cut them in two and arranged the halves opposite each other; the birds, however, he did not cut in half. 11 Then birds of prey came down on the carcasses, but Abram drove them away. 12 As the sun was setting, Abram fell into a deep sleep, and a thick and dreadful darkness came over him. 13 Then the LORD said to him, "Know for certain that your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own, and they will be enslaved and mistreated four hundred years. 14 But I will punish the nation they serve as slaves, and afterward they will come out with great possessions. 15 You, however, will go to your fathers in peace and be buried at a good old age. 16 In the fourth generation your descendants will come back here, for the sin of the Amorites has not yet reached its full measure."
17 When the sun had set and darkness had fallen, a smoking firepot with a blazing torch appeared and passed between the pieces. 18 On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram and said, "To your descendants I give this land, from the river [d] of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates- 19 the land of the Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites, 20 Hittites, Perizzites, Rephaites, 21 Amorites, Canaanites, Girgashites and Jebusites."

Then Moses re consecrated the Covenant at Mount Sinai, as well as Kadesh after the 40 years of death in the wilderness.
Ok now the big question is about the Second Covenant. as I stated before Christ did not abolish the LAW of the first, he made a New one. While according to the new Covenant some items of ritualist and politcal Laws were anulled by it the Laws of truth remained the same. If this second law was the only thing that now mattered then why would it be considered into the Bible seems how it no longer applies. Its like a Software update on a program. It is a pre existing Build that has New features, removed cumbersome ones, as well as add a broader scope of use. You see Blood sacrifce wasn't replaced with Christ. It was Fulfilled in Christ. The Laws of priest hood weren't abandoned, everyone got promoted to be the priest of thier Body (temple). The things that were cumbersome were the Moneychangers at the temple and the pious additude toward others from the corrupted priesthood of that day. But the founding Laws and principles are the same. Faith accredits Rightiousness, the Penalty of sin is still death (of this body), You're are still called to stay right with God the father but instead of the priest medium you now have Christ through the Holy Spirit.
Just remember that Christ didn't abolish the old Law but uphold it and extend it to gentiles. (which I am so thankful for).

[pkt-zer0]

Ok if you would like to get technical, i can i get technical. The basics or math or even vectors are based on fictious points in a finite space that never acctually never exists and have no mass. Then technically you can't measure those points and then have no real evidence scientifily to get any conclusions. The firm foundations of math arnt solid. Its really amazing that people take math for granted and dont research the true foundations of it.

Exactly, that was my point. That's why it's stupid to compare math to faith, since the foundations of the former aren't solid, and the foundations of the latter should be solid, else it couldn't really be called faith.
Faith could provide answers beyond science, so comparing it to any kind of science, that only wish to provide relative truths - now that is pointless.

[cometman008]

not really, i compare them because it requires faith in both aspects math the shaky foundations and of moral truth the shaky decernment to determine whats in reality truth. Both you need to under its background and argument for and against. and math is very widely known by all so thats why i used it. as well as it is just an example to help visualize the original point back when i wrote it a few postys ago.

[Xena]

Then Moses re consecrated the Covenant at Mount Sinai, as well as Kadesh after the 40 years of death in the wilderness.
Ok now the big question is about the Second Covenant. as I stated before Christ did not abolish the LAW of the first, he made a New one. While according to the new Covenant some items of ritualist and politcal Laws were anulled by it the Laws of truth remained the same. If this second law was the only thing that now mattered then why would it be considered into the Bible seems how it no longer applies. Its like a Software update on a program. It is a pre existing Build that has New features, removed cumbersome ones, as well as add a broader scope of use. You see Blood sacrifce wasn't replaced with Christ. It was Fulfilled in Christ. The Laws of priest hood weren't abandoned, everyone got promoted to be the priest of thier Body (temple). The things that were cumbersome were the Moneychangers at the temple and the pious additude toward others from the corrupted priesthood of that day. But the founding Laws and principles are the same. Faith accredits Rightiousness, the Penalty of sin is still death (of this body), You're are still called to stay right with God the father but instead of the priest medium you now have Christ through the Holy Spirit.
Just remember that Christ didn't abolish the old Law but uphold it and extend it to gentiles. (which I am so thankful for).

I didn't misunderstand.

Take for example a new goverment, if it takes over power from the old goverment, then it has a new

Today it is a common practice to refer to the Scriptures written in Hebrew and Aramaic as the �Old Testament.� This is based on the reading in 2 - Corinthians 3:14:

"But their mental powers were dulled. For to this present day the same veil remains unlifted at the reading of the old covenant, because it is done away with by means of Christ"

- (cont.) in the Latin Vulgate and the King James Version. However, the rendering �old testament� in this text is incorrect. The Greek word di�a�the�kes here means �covenant,� as it does in the other 32 places where it occurs in the Greek text. Many modern translations correctly read �old covenant.� The apostle Paul is not referring to the Hebrew and Aramaic Scriptures in their entirety. Neither does he mean that the inspired Christian writings constitute a �new testament (or, covenant).� The apostle is speaking of the old Law covenant, which was recorded by Moses in the Pentateuch and which makes up only a part of the pre-Christian Scriptures.

The Law covenant became in a sense �obsolete� when God announced by means of the prophet Jeremiah that there would be a new covenant.-
Hewbrews 8:13 In his saying �a new [covenant]� he has made the former one obsolete. Now that which is made obsolete and growing old is near to vanishing away.
Jeremiah 31:31-34
Look! There are days coming,� is the utterance of Jehovah, �and I will conclude with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a new covenant; not one like the covenant that I concluded with their forefathers in the day of my taking hold of their hand to bring them forth out of the land of Egypt, �which covenant of mine they themselves broke, although I myself had husbandly ownership of them,� is the utterance of Jehovah.
For this is the covenant that I shall conclude with the house of Israel after those days,� is the utterance of Jehovah. �I will put my law within them, and in their heart I shall write it. And I will become their God, and they themselves will become my people.
And they will no more teach each one his companion and each one his brother, saying, �KNOW Jehovah!� for they will all of them know me, from the least one of them even to the greatest one of them,� is the utterance of Jehovah. �For I shall forgive their error, and their sin I shall remember no more.
- (Cont.)In 33 C.E. the Law covenant was canceled on the basis of Christ�s death on the torture stake -
Colossians 2:14
and blotted out the handwritten document against us, which consisted of decrees and which was in opposition to us; and He has taken it out of the way by nailing it to the torture stake the new covenant replacing it.
- (Cont.) the new covenant replacing it.

Supporting scriptures:

Hewbrews 7:12 For since the priesthood is being changed, there comes to be of necessity a change also of the law
Hewbrews 9:15 So that is why he is a mediator of a new covenant, in order that, because a death has occurred for [their] release by ransom from the transgressions under the former covenant, the ones who have been called might receive the promise of the everlasting inheritance
Acts 2:1-4 Now while the day of the [festival of] Pentecost was in progress they were all together at the same place, and suddenly there occurred from heaven a noise just like that of a rushing stiff breeze, and it filled the whole house in which they were sitting. And tongues as if of fire became visible to them and were distributed about, and one sat upon each one of them, and they all became filled with holy spirit and started to speak with different tongues, just as the spirit was granting them to make utterance.

The fact remains we are no longer bound to follow the old covenant of Moses. We do not have to follow it. Yes the New covenant did take the base laws and principles of the old covenant, just as a new govermant uses the same laws as the old goverment but they are not the same.

[Satori]

Uhm, Xena? testament = covenant. ain't much of a difference.

They're called the Ot and NT, because they ARE covenants. The OT is the covenant between YHWH and Israel (and not inclusive of anyone else), and the NT is the covenant made by Jesus (open to anyone).

[Xena]

Uhm, Xena? testament = covenant. ain't much of a difference.

It doesn't change the facts of matter. Even if you look at it that way.

They're called the Ot and NT, because they ARE covenants. The OT is the covenant between YHWH and Israel (and not inclusive of anyone else), and the NT is the covenant made by Jesus (open to anyone).

Pretty much what iv'e already said. (In some part) Don't over emphisize the name.

[abcme]

Religion is all about faith.

I didn't have that kind of faith to keep going to church =\ I like the morals teachings, but even if I did apply those morals to my life, I lack the most important part of religion.. faith....

[cometman008]

ok this is just a quick reply xena im doing a little research on what my pastor said about it. He said, that in the Old testament there were actualy three covenants that were given, one of Land (promised land)(Abram's decendants only for the time being ) one of Blessing(to those who are righteous in God)(through Abramham all Nations applied cause of Christ) , and one of Blood Sacrifice(was only Israel: through Christ all Nations applied) . The Hewbrews 8 chapter is reffering to the Blood Sacrifice, which was transformed and Fulfilled in Christ leaving the Old "Blood Sacrifice" covenant Obsolete. While the others remain intact still today.
refer here
http://biblegateway.com/quicksearch/...blood+covenant

Thats why Christ says "this is the New Covenant in my Blood Poured out for you" Luke
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. Matthew.

The Covenant of Blessings is is apart of the if you follow my comandments, I will remain in you and you in Me,

passages i was told where to read about Deut 30 or 31 i cant remeber Jer 30 or 31 cant remember. Then also a relook at Gen

[Xena]

You agree that we no longer follow the mosaic law though? Unless your jewish. You definatly are not a jw.

The covenents in the old testiment are:

The Edenic Promise :
Jehovah God, at Genesis 3:15, stated his purpose prophetically in the garden of Eden in the presence of Adam, Eve, and the �serpent.�
Genesis 3:15 : And I shall put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed. He will bruise you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel.

Info about this covenant from the book "Insight into the scriptures" :

As to the identity of those involved in this promise and prophecy: The vision given to the apostle John, at Revelation 12:9, informs us that the �serpent� is Satan the Devil. Evidence indicates that the �seed� of the �woman,� long looked for by righteous men, is to be identified with the �seed� of Abraham, Jesus Christ. (Ga 3:16; Mt 1:1) The �seed� was to be bruised in the heel by the serpent. Jesus Christ was put to death, a wound that proved not to be permanent, however, for God raised Jesus out of death. But the �seed� is, in turn, to bruise the serpent�s head, defeating him permanently.
Who is the �woman� involved in the covenant? Certainly not Eve, who had become God�s enemy. In order to defeat, �bring to nothing,� the spirit creature Satan the Devil, the �seed� would have to be, not human, but spirit. (Heb 2:14) Jesus at birth was a human Son of God, but at the time of Jesus� baptism God acknowledged him as His Son, sending holy spirit down upon him. Jesus here became the spirit-begotten Son of God. (Mt 3:13-17; Joh 3:3-5) Later, at his resurrection, he was �made alive in the spirit.� (1Pe 3:18) Who, then, was the �mother,� not of the human babe Jesus but of the spirit-begotten Son of God? The apostle Paul says that Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Hagar, and Ishmael figured in a symbolic drama, in which Isaac represented those who had heavenly hopes, including Paul himself. Paul then states that their �mother� is �the Jerusalem above.� Jesus Christ calls these his �brothers,� indicating they have the same mother. (Heb 2:11) This provides a basis for identifying the �woman� of Genesis 3:15 with �the Jerusalem above.��Ga 4:21-29.
The terms of the promise imply a lapse of time during which the �serpent� would bring forth a �seed� and enmity would develop between the two �seeds.� Some 6,000 years have passed since the statement of the promise. Just prior to Christ�s Thousand Year Reign the �serpent� will be hurled into the abyss of inactivity, and following the end of the thousand years he will be annihilated forever.�Re 20:1-3, 7-10; Ro 16:20.

Covenant With Noah

Ifno on the covenant with Noah :

Jehovah God made a covenant with Noah, who represented his family, with regard to His purpose to preserve human and animal life while destroying the wicked world of that day. (Ge 6:17-21; 2Pe 3:6) Noah had begun to have sons after he was 500 years old. (Ge 5:32) At the time God revealed this purpose to Noah, his sons were grown and married. Noah, on his part, was to build the ark and take in his wife, his sons, and his sons� wives, as well as animals and food; Jehovah was to preserve flesh on earth, both of man and animals. Noah�s obediently keeping the terms of the covenant resulted in Jehovah�s preservation of human and animal life. The covenant was completely fulfilled in 2369 B.C.E., after the Flood, when men and animals were again able to live on the ground and to reproduce their kind.�Ge 8:15-17.

Rainbow Covenant.

The rainbow covenant was made between Jehovah God and all flesh (human and animal), as represented by Noah and his family, in 2369 B.C.E., in the mountains of Ararat. Jehovah stated that he would never again destroy all flesh by means of a flood. The rainbow was then given as a sign of the covenant, which endures as long as mankind lives on earth, that is, forever.�Ge 9:8-17; Ps 37:29.

Covenant With Abraham.

The covenant with Abraham apparently went into effect when Abram (Abraham) crossed the Euphrates on his way to Canaan. The Law covenant was made 430 years later. (Ga 3:17 ) Jehovah had spoken to Abraham when he was living in Mesopotamia, in Ur of the Chaldeans, telling him to travel to the country that God would show him. (Ac 7:2, 3; Ge 11:31; 12:1-3) Exodus 12:40, 41 (LXX) tells us that at the end of 430 years of dwelling in Egypt and in the land of Canaan, �on this very day� Israel, who had been in slavery in Egypt, went out. The day they were delivered from Egypt was Nisan 14, 1513 B.C.E., the date of the Passover. (Ex 12:2, 6, 7) This would seem to indicate that Abraham crossed the Euphrates River on his way to Canaan on Nisan 14, 1943 B.C.E., and evidently that is when the Abrahamic covenant took effect. God appeared to Abraham again after he had traveled into Canaan as far as Shechem and enlarged on the promise, saying, �To your seed I am going to give this land,� thereby giving an indication of the connection of this covenant with the promise in Eden, and revealing that the �seed� would take a human course, that is, would run through a human line of descent. (Ge 12:4-7) Other enlargements by Jehovah were later expressed, as recorded at Genesis 13:14-17; 15:18; 17:2-8, 19; 22:15-18.

The covenant promises were passed on to Abraham�s posterity through Isaac (Ge 26:2-4) and Jacob. (Ge 28:13-15; 35:11, 12) The apostle Paul says that Christ (as primary one) and those in union with Christ are the real �seed.��Ga 3:16, 28, 29.

God revealed the purpose and accomplishments of the Abrahamic covenant, saying that through Abraham the seed of promise would come; this seed would possess the gate of his enemies; Abraham�s seed through Isaac would number many, uncountable to man at that time; Abraham�s name would be made great; the seed would possess the Promised Land; all families of the earth would bless themselves by means of the seed. (See above texts from Genesis.) There was a literal fulfillment of these things, which was typical of the greater fulfillment through Christ. Paul gives additional information as to the symbolic and prophetic nature of the terms of this covenant when he says that Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Hagar, and Ishmael enacted a symbolic drama.�Ga 4:21-31.

The Abrahamic covenant is �a covenant to time indefinite.� Its terms require that it extend on until the destruction of all God�s enemies and the blessing of the families of the earth have been accomplished.�Ge 17:7; 1Co 15:23-26.

In discussing the Abrahamic and the Law covenants, Paul stated the principle that �there is no mediator where only one person is concerned,� and then he added that �God is only one.� (Ga 3:20 ) Jehovah made the covenant with Abraham unilaterally. It was in reality a promise, and Jehovah set forth no conditions that Abraham must meet in order for the promise to be fulfilled. (Ga 3:18) Thus, no mediator was needed. On the other hand, the Law covenant was bilateral. It was made between Jehovah and the nation of Israel, with Moses as mediator. The Israelites agreed to the terms of the covenant, making a sacred promise to obey the Law. (Ex 24:3-8) This latter covenant did not invalidate the Abrahamic covenant.�Ga 3:17, 19.

Covenant of Circumcision.

The covenant of circumcision was made in 1919 B.C.E., when Abraham was 99 years old. Jehovah made the covenant with Abraham and his natural seed; all males of the household, including slaves, were to be circumcised; anyone refusing was to be cut off from his people. (Ge 17:9-14) Later, God stated that the alien resident who desired to eat the passover (one who wished to become a worshiper of Jehovah with Israel) would have to circumcise the males of his household. (Ex 12:48, 49) Circumcision served as a seal of the righteousness Abraham had by faith while in the uncircumcised state, and it was a physical sign of the covenant relationship of Abraham�s descendants through Jacob, with Jehovah. (Ro 4:11, 12) God recognized circumcision until the ending of the Law covenant, in 33 C.E. (Ro 2:25-28; 1Co 7:19; Ac 15) Even though physical circumcision was carried on under the Law, Jehovah repeatedly showed that he was more concerned with its symbolic significance, counseling Israel to �circumcise the foreskin of their hearts.��De 10:16; Le 26:41; Jer 9:26; Ac 7:51.

Law Covenant.

The Law covenant between Jehovah and the nation of natural Israel was made in the third month after their leaving Egypt, in 1513 B.C.E. (Ex 19:1) It was a national covenant. One born a natural Israelite was, by birth, in the Law covenant and was thus in this special relationship with Jehovah. The Law was in the form of a code, arranged in an orderly way, its statutes grouped together. The Law, transmitted through angels by the hand of a mediator, Moses, was made operative by a sacrifice of animals (in the place of Moses, the mediator, or �covenanter�) at Mount Sinai. (Ga 3:19; Heb 2:2; 9:16-20) At that time Moses sprinkled half the blood of the sacrificed animals on the altar, then he read the book of the covenant to the people, who agreed to be obedient. Afterward he sprinkled the blood upon the book and upon the people. (Ex 24:3-8) Under the Law, a priesthood was established in the house of Aaron, of the family of Kohath of the tribe of Levi. (Nu 3:1-3, 10) The high priesthood passed by descent from Aaron to his sons, Eleazar succeeding Aaron, Phinehas succeeding Eleazar, and so forth.�Nu 20:25-28; Jos 24:33; Jg 20:27, 28.

The terms of the Law covenant were that if the Israelites kept the covenant they would be a people for the name of Jehovah, a kingdom of priests and a holy nation, with His blessing (Ex 19:5, 6; De 28:1-14); if they violated the covenant, they would be cursed. (De 28:15-68) Its purposes were: to make transgressions manifest (Ga 3:19); to lead the Jews to Christ (Ga 3:24); to serve for a shadow of the good things to come (Heb 10:1; Col 2:17); to protect the Jews from false, pagan religion and preserve the true worship of Jehovah; to protect the line of the seed of promise. Added to the covenant with Abraham (Ga 3:17-19), it organized the natural seed-nation of Abraham through Isaac and Jacob.

The Law covenant extended benefits to others not of natural Israel, for they could become proselytes, getting circumcised, and could receive many of the Law�s benefits.�Ex 12:48, 49.

Covenant With the Tribe of Levi.

Jehovah made a covenant with the tribe of Levi, that the entire tribe should be set aside to constitute the tabernacle service organization, including the priesthood. This occurred in the wilderness of Sinai, in 1512 B.C.E. (Ex 40:2, 12-16; Mal 2:4) Aaron and his sons, of the family of Kohath, were to be priests, the remaining families of Levi taking care of other duties, such as setting up the tabernacle, moving it, and other matters. (Nu 3:6-13; chap 4) Later, they served likewise at the temple. (1Ch 23) The installation services for the priesthood were carried out Nisan 1-7, 1512 B.C.E., and they began serving on Nisan 8. (Le chaps 8, 9) The Levites had no inheritance in the land, but received tithes from the other tribes, and had enclave cities in which to dwell. (Nu 18:23, 24; Jos 21:41) On account of Phinehas� zeal for exclusive devotion to Jehovah, God made a covenant of peace with him, a covenant for the priesthood to time indefinite for him and his offspring. (Nu 25:10-13) The covenant with Levi continued in operation until the ending of the Law covenant.�Heb 7:12.

Covenant With Israel at Moab.

Just before Israel entered the Promised Land, in 1473 B.C.E., Jehovah made a covenant with natural Israel at Moab. (De 29:1; 1:3) Much of the Law was here restated and explained by Moses. The purpose of the covenant was to encourage faithfulness to Jehovah and to make adjustments and set forth certain laws necessary for the Israelites as they changed from a life of wandering to a settled life in the land. (De 5:1, 2, 32, 33; 6:1; compare Le 17:3-5 with De 12:15, 21.) This covenant ended with the abolition of the Law covenant, for it was an integral part of the Law.

Covenant With King David.

The covenant with David was made at some time during David�s reign in Jerusalem (1070-1038 B.C.E.), the parties being Jehovah and David as representative of his family. (2Sa 7:11-16) The terms of this covenant were that a son from David�s line would possess the throne forever, and that this son would build a house for Jehovah�s name. God�s purpose in this covenant was to provide a kingly dynasty for the Jews; to give Jesus, as David�s heir, the legal right to the throne of David, �Jehovah�s throne� (1Ch 29:23; Lu 1:32); and to provide identification for Jesus as the Messiah. (Eze 21:25-27; Mt 1:6-16; Lu 3:23-31) This covenant included no priesthood; the Levitical priesthood served in conjunction with kings of David�s line; priesthood and kingship were strictly separate under the Law. Since Jehovah acknowledges this kingship and works through it forever, the covenant has everlasting duration.�Isa 9:7; 2Pe 1:11.

Covenant to Be a Priest Like Melchizedek.

This covenant is expressed at Psalm 110:4, and the writer of the Bible book of Hebrews applies it to Christ at Hebrews 7:1-3, 15-17. It is a covenant made by Jehovah with Jesus Christ alone. Jesus apparently referred to it when making a covenant for a kingdom with his followers. (Lu 22:29) By Jehovah�s oath Jesus Christ, the heavenly Son of God, would be a priest according to the manner of Melchizedek. Melchizedek was king and priest of God on earth. Jesus Christ would hold both offices of King and High Priest, not on earth, but in heaven. He was installed permanently into office after his ascension to heaven. (Heb 6:20; 7:26, 28; 8:1) The covenant is forever in operation, since Jesus will act under Jehovah�s direction as King and High Priest forever.�Heb 7:3.

Various Other Covenants.

(a) Joshua and the chieftains of Israel with the inhabitants of the city of Gibeon to let them live. Though they were cursed Canaanites, whom the Israelites were to destroy, yet a covenant was considered so binding that the Gibeonites were allowed to live, but the curse was carried out by making them gatherers of wood and drawers of water for the assembly of Israel. (Jos 9:15, 16, 23-27) (b) Joshua with Israel to serve Jehovah. (Jos 24:25, 26) (c) The older men of Gilead with Jephthah at Mizpah to make him head over the inhabitants of Gilead if Jehovah gave him victory over the Ammonites. (Jg 11:8-11) (d) Between Jonathan and David. (1Sa 18:3; 23:18) (e) Jehoiada the priest with the chiefs of the Carian bodyguard and of the runners. (2Ki 11:4; 2Ch 23:1-3) (f) Israel with Jehovah to put away foreign wives. (Ezr 10:3) (g) Jehovah to give his servant as a covenant of (for) the people. (Isa 42:6; 49:8) (h) David with all the older men of Israel, at Hebron. (1Ch 11:3) (i) A covenant of the people, during Asa�s reign, to search for Jehovah with all their heart and soul. (2Ch 15:12) (j) Josiah with Jehovah to keep Jehovah�s commandments, according to the Law. (2Ch 34:31) (k) The �braggarts� who ruled Jerusalem were erroneously thinking they were safe in �a covenant with Death.��Isa 28:14, 15, 18.

And now, the new covenant

New Covenant. Jehovah foretold the new covenant by the prophet Jeremiah in the seventh century B.C.E., stating that it would not be like the Law covenant, which Israel broke. (Jer 31:31-34) On the night before his death, Nisan 14, 33 C.E., when he established the celebration of the Lord�s Evening Meal, Jesus Christ announced the new covenant, to be validated by his sacrifice. (Lu 22:20) On the 50th day from his resurrection and 10 days after he had ascended to his Father, he poured out the holy spirit, which he had received from Jehovah, on his disciples gathered in an upper room in Jerusalem.�Ac 2:1-4, 17, 33; 2Co 3:6, 8, 9; Heb 2:3, 4.

The parties to the new covenant are Jehovah, on one side, and �the Israel of God,� the spirit-begotten ones in union with Christ, making up his congregation or body, on the other side. (Heb 8:10; 12:22-24; Ga 6:15, 16; 3:26-28; Ro 2:28, 29) The new covenant is made operative by the shed blood (the sacrifice of the human life) of Jesus Christ, the value of which was presented to Jehovah after Jesus� ascension to heaven. (Mt 26:28) When one is selected by God for the heavenly calling (Heb 3:1), God brings that one into His covenant over Christ�s sacrifice. (Ps 50:5; Heb 9:14, 15, 26) Jesus Christ is the Mediator of the new covenant (Heb 8:6; 9:15) and is the primary Seed of Abraham. (Ga 3:16) By means of Jesus� mediatorship of the new covenant, he assists those in the covenant to become part of the real seed of Abraham (Heb 2:16; Ga 3:29) through forgiveness of their sins. Jehovah declares them righteous.�Ro 5:1, 2; 8:33; Heb 10:16, 17.

These spirit-begotten, anointed brothers of Christ become underpriests of the High Priest, �a royal priesthood.� (1Pe 2:9; Re 5:9, 10; 20:6) These do a priestly work, a �public service� (Php 2:17), and are called �ministers of a new covenant.� (2Co 3:6) These called ones must follow Christ�s steps closely, faithfully, until laying down their lives in death; Jehovah will then make them a kingdom of priests, making them sharers in divine nature, and will reward them with immortality and incorruption as joint heirs in the heavens with Christ. (1Pe 2:21; Ro 6:3, 4; 1Co 15:53; 1Pe 1:4; 2Pe 1:4) The purpose of the covenant is to take out a people for Jehovah�s name as a part of Abraham�s �seed.� (Ac 15:14) They become the �bride� of Christ, and are the body of persons whom Christ takes into a covenant for the Kingdom, to rule with Him. (Joh 3:29; 2Co 11:2; Re 21:9; Lu 22:29; Re 1:4-6; 5:9, 10; 20:6) The purpose of the new covenant requires that it continue in operation until all of the �Israel of God� are resurrected to immortality in the heavens.

Jesus� Covenant With His Followers.

On the night of Nisan 14, 33 C.E., after celebrating the Lord�s Evening Meal Jesus made this covenant with his faithful apostles. To the 11 faithful apostles he promised that they would sit on thrones. (Lu 22:28-30; compare 2Ti 2:12.) Later, he showed that this promise extended to all spirit-begotten �conquerors.� (Re 3:21; see also Re 1:4-6; 5:9, 10; 20:6.) On the day of Pentecost he inaugurated this covenant toward them by the anointing with holy spirit of those disciples present in the upper room in Jerusalem. (Ac 2:1-4, 33) Those who would stick with him through trials, dying his kind of death (Php 3:10; Col 1:24), would reign with him, sharing his Kingdom rule. The covenant remains operative between Jesus Christ and these associate kings forever.�Re 22:5.

[Dingy]

If religion is about equality, then why are there ranks within religions? ibid.--High priests, etc.

[cometman008]

If religion is about equality, then why are there ranks within religions? ibid.--High priests, etc.

Well concerning all religions. There are jobs that need to be filled, Very much like a government. They are filled for checks and balances inside of an organization. A president or king is head of the country for the welfare of that country ( for the most part). Now when some one gets corrupted in that high postion its causes trouble for everyone, but if someone is devoted whole heartedly for that organization what ever it is it will gain. ( this is one reason the USA has a presidential vote every 4 years. as to not let the head of our country to be corrupted over time.)
like wise in a religion heads of churchs/religions are there for the Continuity of that church/religion.
Now High Priests are in positions like that because people around them reconize that this one individual is the best leader of all people with in that organization. Also a high priest is supposed to intercede with God for us inorder that the people would (purpose of that organization goes here). Now in the case of Christianity the HIGH Priest is Jesus Christ. He leads and showed the way for us to be brought back to God for our own sin was keeping us away. He interceded for all mankind by,
Romans 5:7-9 (New International Version)
7Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
9Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him!

John #:16-21
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.[g] 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.

God did not want to condenm the world? Why? This is a good question. John 3:16
God So LOVED THE WORLD. what did he love in THE WORLD? "that whoever believes in him" People!!! He created us from the begining. But then why are we disconnected with God if he created us? "But men loved darkness instead" . Thats why God ultimatly sent is Son Christ to the cross to Die for our sins it was the only way for renew people to God.
Christians reconize the "But men loved darkness instead" and repent of our ways we were. "But whoever lives by the TRUTH comes into the light".
Jesus said," I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one come to the Father except through me."

Since Christains see the only way to God we put(God put Christ in reality) as the High Priest, because not only does he Fit all the job duties As Gods only Son he has a much higher positional power in God's Kingdom then any human person ever could.

I hope I explained it for you.

[cometman008]

Oh Xena i agree we are no longer bound by the Blood Sacrifice Covenant for forgiveness of sins, but still think the principles and parts of the Mosaic law still apply to even Christians today. I read this. If you think of the Old Vs New covenants compared as a Photograph(old) compared to the actually being at the place it was taken(new). Of Course the actually being there is going to Be the better choice, but thats doesnt discount the photograph either. "A picture is worth a thousand words" it has been said. As well as the Picture is Still in 100% agreement with the actual seeing it happen. Its just a 2D view of it. Like wise even though the Old Covenant is just a picture of Salvations Message there is still value in it. It still has application to our lives today. (thats all i was really saying)

It just felt like to me when you first started out that you felt like you were trying to totally discard it. Now i know thats not the case.

BTW what did you mean

Yeah well, It may seem unbelieveable but there is a reminent of gods sons on the earth called the governing body or faithful and descreet slave. I dont know how they operate, but they always bring out amazing information. There are only about 8 thousand reminants on the earth now and only a fraction of that number are part of the governing body. I get my truth from them, they say they get it from god. So well, I believe them anyway.