Do you think females are inferior?

[pkt-zer0]

What's up with all these discussion threads lately? And I don't have time to read that long posts about subjects that themselves do not have a point. Well, that was my opinion to the question, if someone noticed it there.

I can't agree with you here. Questioning is the very nature of progress. Arguing about something and finding the words to put your opinion in does make sense.

I agree with most of the people here (men/women complement each other, they are mostly equal), though Creature does have a very good point.

If you look at it that way, just in terms of accomplishments, men DO seem to be more successful (how many great figures in history were women? Only a few, definitely less than men) But success comes from achieving your goals, while going through obstacles. Certainly human greatness can not be the driving force, people don't do good just because that fits this kind of modern darwinism. Motivation, inspiration, admiration. Women could easily be the source of these.

Let's say that all humans strive for perfection, a state that is unreachable, because that is its very nature. Thus, perfection is beauty. Beauty does not come from human greatness only (achievements of men, as Creature put it), it comes from human frailty and weakness too. Only in being human can we strive for perfection. By denying our nature we would contradict ourselves, our very existence.
As men seem to be able to rise above earthly matters and show a new way for mankind, they can also sink very low, to bestial depths. This is how men prove themselves to be more than human.

The other option isn't better, nor is it worse.
I think being human is something the so-called weaker sex does pretty well. In both the good and the bad sense, they are nothing more than human, something we men can simply not seem to accept. This balance of change and stagnation is what moves humankind ever forward.

There will be wars for grand ideals, and there will be mothers, to bring up a new, stronger generation from the ashes.

Meh. I think I'll just finish my ranting now, hope it makes some sense at least. It's midnight, so I'm gonna sleep now.

[kohlrak]

considering that i don't beleive in evolution i could assume in that catagory all i want. lol

ADDITION:

If you look at it that way, just in terms of accomplishments, men DO seem to be more successful (how many great figures in history were women? Only a few, definitely less than men) But success comes from achieving your goals, while going through obstacles. Certainly human greatness can not be the driving force, people don't do good just because that fits this kind of modern darwinism. Motivation, inspiration, admiration. Women could easily be the source of these.

The only reson that men seem more successful is men's more commonality to chose a stronger physical life style is what caused them to have more power. This power was most likely used in prehistory to make a propiganda that convinced females that men are indeed to be the leaders. This probly would have continued on, then came the women's rights thinger in US. This once again made things start to be equal once again, but, as you know today, we still argue who's better when in reality, no one's better, it was the men that used a propiganda that prevented weman from wanting to pursue physically strong lifestyles. That is my theory why men have achived so much power.

(HERE COMES THE FACTS.) STILL, the reson weman havn't been famous is because men wouldn't let them. Everyone for a long time beleived men should rule, including most females belived that because that is what they were taught all their lives. Basically, it was sexist till sometime in the 1900s. (or was it 1800s? i forget.)

[Xaenn]

So do you agree or disagree that men and women are treated differently? They quite so are, correct? They play different societal roles because that is what they are.

Yeah of course. Men and women are treated differently. I don't agree they play different societal roles because that is who they are, more that it is who society makes them out to be. Even within each gender there are millions of variations between people, making two categories is ridiculous

And yes you are right, it's subjective. Like I said, this is all open to interpretation. But there are facts evident in all this. No government on the planet has even near an equal participation of genders. No corporation on the planet has even near an equal participation of genders at the executive levels. None of the ranks of what are considered classical artists (in other words inventors of some particular art) are even near an equal between the genders. None of the great scientists of all kinds combined in the world are even near an equal participation of genders. Let's start with that as my interpretation of "inferior". Inferior numbers there.

Yeah, so women don't have as many of these "acheivements." But then how many women are as interested in government or science as men? Just like you said, there isn't an equal participation of genders. Does that mean women are incapable of participating? Absolutely not. Does it mean for one reason or another they choose not to? Most likely.

What are the achievements of the female then? They are firmly in the confines of the "societal role" that you mentioned, but did not define. In other words, they include, being pretty. Being alluring. Being a distraction. Strip dancers. Britney Spears. Paris Hilton. Any young girl who just wants to be blonde.

The successful female lawyers, doctors, or scientists are also admired a whole lot. If they are on TV that is And mostly only if they are attractive.

Women shown in society, are largely very "attractive" women (something that is subjective as well, but there is a general consensus to a point). The media is a business, and it provides what people want to see. If men weren't largely interested in beautiful women, there probably would be less of them in the media. If men weren't interested in strippers, there would be no money there, and thus there would be very few strippers.

As far as I'm concerned, about these achievements, most of them are senseless. What is better about playing a sport as opposed to taking care of your children (one example, not meant to categorize either sex)? Well, society assigns a large monetary value to it. Does that make it valuable or an achievement? Hardly, an achievement is a very subjective thing, and depends entirely on what one values.

And being a sex object is nothing of an achievement. It's rather disgusting how most men think of women in such a light.

[Ryan]

Males have there things that there good at. And females have theres. And maybe somethings the males cant do something the female can, and vice versa. So technically, there both equal.

[Creature]

Ok, I can just try to say something about the replies that say. Men good at something, women at others. Please mention some for both, let's compare your list. I already mentioned many of the ones none of us could deny as being a common truth with a straight face. You can just add to those lists, or make your own. I don't see much merit in this opinion with none of the specific details. That's all I can say about this opinion. It reeks of inexperienced and naive complacency.

Yeah of course. Men and women are treated differently. I don't agree they play different societal roles because that is who they are, more that it is who society makes them out to be. Even within each gender there are millions of variations between people, making two categories is ridiculous

That's why I used the word "generally" in this whole issue. But the details about government, arts, science, et al that I stated were not false. The things about the facts about gender in the high levels of society. Which by the way, also trickle down to the lower levels in as much as what is left of them.

Yeah, so women don't have as many of these "acheivements." But then how many women are as interested in government or science as men? Just like you said, there isn't an equal participation of genders. Does that mean women are incapable of participating? Absolutely not. Does it mean for one reason or another they choose not to? Most likely.

You know, I will try to clear something up right here. I am not condemning all females as faulty in some way. I am conveying the very fact that you state here. That women (in general) are not intrested in these important things, and things like it having to do with a high degree of intelligence. Yet no one on this thread even attempts to make a retort that contains what women actually are intrested in. Maybe me stating a few of them a page back was enough?

It is the unspoken truth that men do this, women do that. You can dress it up all you want, but you just said in that paragraph the same thing I did. I'm didn't even get to disputing the reasons why we are different. You say that genders are different because "society makes them out to be", not because of what we are. In reality, these two things are interconnected

Women shown in society, are largely very "attractive" women (something that is subjective as well, but there is a general consensus to a point). The media is a business, and it provides what people want to see. If men weren't largely interested in beautiful women, there probably would be less of them in the media.

All people want to see beautiful women, because in large part, that is the bulk of what is expected of them. if you actually believe women do not want to be beautiful, you live in a bubble or under a rock. blaming men's side in the role does not refute my basic statement. and it's also a confused rebuttal, since what I say does not place blame for something an entire gender. society is the cause of it, I thought that wouldn't need to be mentioned. society gives us general gender roles because that is what we are, we are society, it is not an outside command. if you don't agree with this statement, you must really dig deep for a better idea than just dissecting the media out from society.

As far as I'm concerned, about these achievements, most of them are senseless.

...........

Ok, thank you for playing

Senseless things like the invention of government, the house you are sitting in, all the gadgets you are currently running. not to mention pretty much every damn material thing you enjoy.

I never mentioned sports. Mentioning sports does not address any of the examples I did actually mention on either side.

And being a sex object is nothing of an achievement. It's rather disgusting how most men think of women in such a light.

like i said, if you want to blame a gender, that's an confused rebuttal. you appear to believe i'm blaming women for something. like i said, i thought the source would be redundant to mention, society. us as a whole. what we are.

[kohlrak]

This is gonna turn into a major flame war. Can some admin please close this before it gets any worse?

You want us to mention things females and males are good at? Lemme tell ya, there's nothing i can think of skill wise that a male can do that a female can't and vise versa. If they set their mind to it, it can prove true that the only difference is in the preference, the history, and some obvious physical attributes that i might cause a bit of a stink if i mention exactly what i'm reffering to, but i'm sure you can guess. (hint, if it ain't obvious yet, think of what separates men from wemon in general. The physical attributes.)

[GundamGuy]

The only diffrence between men and women are there Chromosomes, and Anatomy.

Men and women are treated diffrently because of a historical bias. This bias also accounts for the personality diffrences, between men and women.

Bad habits are hard to break.

[kohlrak]

thank you gundam for explaining what i have been saying all along.. lol i'm serious though, this probly will turn into a flame war, i'm itching to cuss this guy out. But rules forbid, right?

[Creature]

This is gonna turn into a major flame war. Can some admin please close this before it gets any worse?

You want us to mention things females and males are good at? Lemme tell ya, there's nothing i can think of skill wise that a male can do that a female can't and vise versa. If they set their mind to it, it can prove true that the only difference is in the preference, the history, and some obvious physical attributes that i might cause a bit of a stink if i mention exactly what i'm reffering to,

you're the only one who mentioned any flames, and there is nothing even resembling a melee of pointless insults going on around here. you can avoid this thread if you dont like it.

now about your list which includes everything. well that remains just a theory. you can say it's just not their preference to join all the things that are predominantly worked on by males. It's like if I go around telling everyong that I am able to lift a locomotive over my head, and when one is offered for me to lift, I can just say it's not my preference. That's not enough of a backing to the theory.

[Creature]

The only diffrence between men and women are there Chromosomes, and Anatomy.

Men and women are treated diffrently because of a historical bias. This bias also accounts for the personality diffrences, between men and women.

Bad habits are hard to break.

you know, you're basically right, but it's all but clear that it goes way back to the ape ancestors, and back.

[abcme]

I don't think women are inferior in every way, just that most men are stronger and bigger then most women. That's it. If you go beyond that difference then your just being an ass. Women mature faster and earlier then men, something in their bodies make them do that, I won't get into that right now (Playing Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory: AWESOME), but it is scientifically proven. Sounds like you, Creature, had some bad experiences with women. I may be wrong about that, of course, but you can just consider that as a question if you want. Women produce our offspring, something we men can never do. That, right there, shows one big beneficial difference that women have. That is of course, until we learn to control the production of human clones, which will never happen in our lifetime. So just sit back and relax, don't take this topic to damn serious, it's a joke to me.

That's actually quite an interesting point. But I think in the distant future, women are gonna dominate men in a lot of ways, possibly wiping out the males cuz when we do get to control cloning ppl, women still have the advantage cuz they can extract sperm from men and then fertilize the egg while men.... well, it's a lot harder to extract the egg and keep it safe and stuff.

But I think women are just as equal as men, cept that I might feel awkward when a girl excels me atheletically(I do admit though that women generally are more dexterious than men, they can multitask.)cuz naturally men have the stuff in their body to be more physically capable of crazy stuff.

[kohlrak]

The reson i don't avoid it is because i feel you will be eventually teaching this to others that they aren't equal. That's what offends me. The reson i mention flames is cause i personally take it offencive that anyone can say a human is better than another just because of their "anatomy". If it wasn't for that, i'd leave this post alone.

now about your list which includes everything. well that remains just a theory. you can say it's just not their preference to join all the things that are predominantly worked on by males. It's like if I go around telling everyong that I am able to lift a locomotive over my head, and when one is offered for me to lift, I can just say it's not my preference. That's not enough of a backing to the theory.

If you do that, they'd consider you a lier. You're exadurating what i said. I'm not saying that people do things because they want to and can't because they don't want to. I'm saying that both genders can work on a certain goal and achive pretty much the same results. it's preference that separates them. And the reson i am saying is that they don't like these things is because all their lives they have been taught otherwise. An example of this was shown during the Civil war. Men were the only nurses. This is indeed why females aren't as "accomplished" as males. it's because the males won't let them. Just like before the civil war, when a black person does somthing good either no one gets credit or the slave owner does. 1 group gets power before the other, prevents another group from getting equal, that's what separates them.

You never know, this subject could have been entitled about men being incapable to females.

[Rosalinda]

(My friend showed me this post and I just HAD to get over here and reply.)

I think strength and weakness is determined on an individual level. What saying males are superior and females are superior does is stereotypes mankind. Stereotyping small groups is quite enough without stereotyping humanity. It's like saying all blondes are dumb, really. Sure it's fun to joke about sometimes, but in reality it's not true.

Besides, even if females ARE inferior, that really doesn't give anyone the right to do anything about it. If you're the most beautiful person in the world, does that give you the right to call someone else ugly? If you're the most intelligent person, do you have the right to call someone dumb? Morally, this is wrong in my opinion. The pot shouldn't call the kettle black; we're all people.

[Xaenn]

That's why I used the word "generally" in this whole issue. But the details about government, arts, science, et al that I stated were not false. The things about the facts about gender in the high levels of society. Which by the way, also trickle down to the lower levels in as much as what is left of them.

I'm not trying to dispute few women are involved in such activities. That's statistical.

You know, I will try to clear something up right here. I am not condemning all females as faulty in some way.

It's not their fault that they are inferior, is that it?

I'd prefer not to get too deep into society and gender roles. Because one is portrayed a certain way in the media CERTAINLY does not make them that way. Take for instance the derogatory manner in which many minorities were/are (emphasis on were) portrayed in the media. Is that who they are? One generalization? Absurd. The media is a portrayal of society, and a twisted one.

Edit:

Reading back through your posts I realize this is ridiculous. Your argument seems to be that because men have made more "advancements" in society they are superior. You're trying to take the achievements of individuals and apply them to society as a whole. Because some scientists have made incredible discoveries really makes you, a man, no better at all. Something can only be valued at the individual level, and then at that value is completely subjective...This is a waste of time.

[polobunny]

I can't see any advantage to be any sex those days, really. Lemme explain this fast.
I see evolution as an optimization to what is already created.

Evolution does not only imply physical strenght but also intellectual properties.
On most intellectual aptitudes tests, female owns.

We are going in a world where physical strenght isn't needed as much as it was in the human past. Females owns, they aren't carrying 2 tons of muscles for nothing.

However, females tends to be fatter than males. Males owns, less unuseful weight.

But females can do 2 things at the same time while men cannot. Females + 1. Don't forget we always want to go faster. Proof, faster internet, you geeks.



So now at this point female wins. But i got the only argument you should take into consideration.
Even with today technology, we can't make human babies without male and females parts.

Moral: We should stop caring about those stupid discussions that will not change our destiny, and have sex while the Y chromosome is still needed. XD