Why are they putting RPG elements in more and more games these days?

[Yubson]

Well, these elements can be good or bad depending on the surrounding of the game. I consider myself mainly a RPG gamer and if you ask me RPG is for console, and the most ones I played are either on PSX or PS2. I never owned Xbox and don't intent too, not in the near future tho. I heard about trophies implemented in most games played on new consoles and I don't really care about it.

When talking about RPG elements, if it is a core part of the game - like in Deus Ex- HR - it's awesome, and at any level of gaming having some RPG elements is inevitable and good implementation may improve the game. On the other hand, parting from a core game genre because of "grinding" is pointless. If game is FPS with RPG elements its ACTION game and let it be. If it is a pure RPG, implement side quest in a way, that if you don't do any - you'll have hard time beating the game and it won't be as fun. Moderate is fine, but GRIND TIME > GAME BEAT TIME is WRONG.
My thoughts.

Regards

[crimsonedge]

Well, these elements can be good or bad depending on the surrounding of the game. I consider myself mainly a RPG gamer and if you ask me RPG is for console, and the most ones I played are either on PSX or PS2. I never owned Xbox and don't intent too, not in the near future tho. I heard about trophies implemented in most games played on new consoles and I don't really care about it.

When talking about RPG elements, if it is a core part of the game - like in Deus Ex- HR - it's awesome, and at any level of gaming having some RPG elements is inevitable and good implementation may improve the game. On the other hand, parting from a core game genre because of "grinding" is pointless. If game is FPS with RPG elements its ACTION game and let it be. If it is a pure RPG, implement side quest in a way, that if you don't do any - you'll have hard time beating the game and it won't be as fun. Moderate is fine, but GRIND TIME > GAME BEAT TIME is WRONG.
My thoughts.

Regards

This is the whole point about what is wrong with games these days. Grinding used to be optional, and wasn't required for you to get the full gaming experience. Lots of players grind in RPGs and over level so they can bulldoze the game with no challenge, it is their choice to do that.

[Yubson]

I you ask me, get an MMORPG and grind, and as you said in above post, getting thousands and thousands of kills just to get an achievement is pointless. If grinding is available, a story gap - extra time to prepare for battle etc - the monsters should be "balanced" so that they suffice experience for battle preparness but not excess drops/golddigging/leveling. It just ruins the gameplan, the plot and the general gameplay.

There will always be grinders that just love to hack and abuse an area but games should be developed in a way that challenge is #1 priority with a story in front.
Cheers mate.

[Mistral]

I beat lots of new games, but complete none of them. These days completing a game means platinum, all trophies. Of course nobody has time for it. A really ridiculous game to platinum is Star Ocean 4, looking at 500 hours minimum. They have you get 30k kills with 2 separate characters to get a battle trophy. You are looking at 120 hours to get just those 2, about 3x longer than it takes to finish the real game, except you would be grinding the same weak enemy over and over again, for only 2 battle trophies. This is 120 straight hours of repetitive grinding, same place, same enemies, and its only a small portion of what you need to do for platinum. Also you have to get 50% of the battle trophies on a character to raise their level cap to 255. They crossed a line that should have never been crossed with battle trophies, limiting a player progressing in the game because they didn't grind trophies. That is really gay.

Hell you could have a max level in many MMOs, including WoW and be geared out and everything in under or around 500 hours. And you probably wouldn't be anywhere near 30000 kills.

I never defined it that way. To me, it just means finishing a story, and maybe some of post-game content if that exists and you're interested. Trophies are purely prestige icons in most cases (your example of a level cap excluded), which you don't shouldn't need to pay attention to in either case. The concept of "100% completion" existed before trophies were ever around, and even then, as now, it typically wasn't necessary to complete a game.

[crimsonedge]

I never defined it that way. To me, it just means finishing a story, and maybe some of post-game content if that exists and you're interested. Trophies are purely prestige icons in most cases (your example of a level cap excluded), which you don't shouldn't need to pay attention to in either case. The concept of "100% completion" existed before trophies were ever around, and even then, as now, it typically wasn't necessary to complete a game.

The general consensus I get from gamers these days is that finishing a game means platinum.

[Cookie Monster]

The general consensus I get from gamers these days is that finishing a game means platinum.

I don't think so, finishing a game means completing the main mode in whatever level of difficulty you are able to do it. Generally, getting the platinum trophy is more than that and it implies completing also some accessory stuff. Definitely, not the same.

[Jazzmarazz]

Kids these days.
There was once a time when beating and even completing was done solely out of enjoyment for playing the game.

[Slacker Magician]

Well, these elements can be good or bad depending on the surrounding of the game. I consider myself mainly a RPG gamer and if you ask me RPG is for console, and the most ones I played are either on PSX or PS2. I never owned Xbox and don't intent too, not in the near future tho. I heard about trophies implemented in most games played on new consoles and I don't really care about it.

When talking about RPG elements, if it is a core part of the game - like in Deus Ex- HR - it's awesome, and at any level of gaming having some RPG elements is inevitable and good implementation may improve the game. On the other hand, parting from a core game genre because of "grinding" is pointless. If game is FPS with RPG elements its ACTION game and let it be. If it is a pure RPG, implement side quest in a way, that if you don't do any - you'll have hard time beating the game and it won't be as fun. Moderate is fine, but GRIND TIME > GAME BEAT TIME is WRONG.
My thoughts.

Regards

I did not see this.

Kids these days.
There was once a time when beating and even completing was done solely out of enjoyment for playing the game.

That's why I play games .

[crimsonedge]

That's why I play games .

That is the only reason I play games, and the only reason people used to play games until they started feeding the trophy whore mentality. To get a 7/10 rating all they gotta do is deliver a pile of shit, and put a lot of trophies and quests, and maybe some rare drops in it. W00T!! I found a piece of corn.

[Slacker Magician]

That is the only reason I play games, and the only reason people used to play games until they started feeding the trophy whore mentality. To get a 7/10 rating all they gotta do is deliver a pile of shit, and put a lot of trophies and quests, and maybe some rare drops in it. W00T!! I found a piece of corn.

They're feeding the MMO mentality.

Low drop rates.
Crappy experience gains.
Completely worthless junk.

Sounds like an MMO to me .

[Cookie Monster]

And some people enjoy getting trophies the same way they enjoy playing games. What's wrong with that?

[crimsonedge]

And some people enjoy getting trophies the same way they enjoy playing games. What's wrong with that?

They don't give me the option to disable them, and occasionally make them a requirement for doing something else in the game. Eventually its gonna be can't access X area until you got X trophy, or you can't get X weapon without getting X trophy, etc. Some games that already did stuff similar to that.

Basically the game makers to the gamers: We are too cheap to add real content into the game so we are gonna make you grind extra to prop of completion time.

And then they wonder why piracy and second hand sales are on the rise when they charge $60 for games like this.

[Cookie Monster]

They don't give me the option to disable them, and occasionally make them a requirement for doing something else in the game.

So it's part of a game as any other feature you may like or not. I still see nothing wrong, any game can be played and enjoyed without going for the trophies.

[crimsonedge]

So it's part of a game as any other feature you may like or not. I still see nothing wrong, any game can be played and enjoyed without going for the trophies.

Its not an important part of the game, it doesn't effect anything, its no different than disabling the rumble feature on a game. Unless they implement them in a way that effects content. But if a game failed to let you disable the rumble feature, I guess it would then be part of the game even if some people found it annoying. But they could please both parties by simply letting the ones that didn't like or care for it to disable it.

[Slacker Magician]

And some people enjoy getting trophies the same way they enjoy playing games. What's wrong with that?

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I don't think anything is wrong with it, don't like them is all.