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Thread: Sequels

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    Default Sequels

    This topic has been done a million times, but I don't recall it being done recently, so here you go.

    What are some sequels, in your opinion, that far surpassed their predecessors, and why? On the other hand, are there any games you felt were unworthy sequels, inferior to their originals? If so, what was the reason for their failure?

    Random games that come to mind for me:

    Digital Devil Saga 2 didn't affect me the same way the first game did. The setting and soundtrack of the first game was great, and they pretty much threw those out the window in the sequel. Consequently I never bothered to finish it.

    Shadow Hearts 2. Better than the first game in every possible way, in gameplay, characters, plot and ending. I frequently tell people to just read a summary of the first game's plot and start with SH2.

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    Super Mario 3 was the perfect sequel in every where - bigger, better and badder than the other two.

    Uncharted 2 bested the original in every way, better gameplay, characters, etc.

    Metal Gear Solid 2 was better than MGS1 IMO - I know I'm in the minority on that one, but I love that game. It did everything the first one did better, and added a ton of new things to do.

    Grand Theft Auto III - I don't think i need to even mention why it's better than GTA1 and 2, but it was the shit when it came out

    Halo 2 was one of the biggest letdowns for me - I didn't buy it because I wanted the multiplayer, I wanted an awesome campaign - and the campaign in Halo 2 is shit. Total shit.

    Army of Two: 40th Day was a terrible sequel as well. I rather enjoyed the first one, mainly because of the co-op, but 40th Day managed to ruin all the good things the original did.

    I'm sure I'll think of more - hopefully more people will join in on this discussion - it's too dead around here

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    Uncharted 2 is still the best Flava.

    RADIANT DAWN. I mean, Path of Radiance is a great game, but Radiant Dawn is even better. I don't even need to explain this right? Good, I didn't think so.

    Symphonia sequel blew chunks.

    Alundra 2 WTFFFFFFF get out

    Edit: I'm sure I've ranted about Alundra 2 but honestly...people complain about yearly COD and sports game installments being cash grabs. Well let's be real, Alundra 2 was a cash grab pure and simple. Sony didn't even give a shit to bring over the first game to America so Working Designs had to do it. So then well after that they develop a 2nd game. This would be fine, except it's completely different and unrelated to the first game in anyway. Just call the game Flint and the Butt Pirates or something. At it's core it's a mediocre 3-D ARPG so it's a somewhat playable game with boring music and plot and a poor control scheme. In other words it's not even cracking the top 50 for PS1 games. It just can't compare to the first game especially in terms of gameplay and story. And yes, you have to compare it to Alundra because it's called Alundra 2...

    Apparently WD didn't bring over Alundra 2 because of said shittiness. Victor Ireland confirmed.



    Symphonia 2 was also a cash in, but at least it's related. It just wasn't well thought out in terms of story in many regards. Also Emil is awful.
    Last edited by Gypsy; 16th-May-2013 at 22:08.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlavaFlave View Post
    Super Mario 3 was the perfect sequel in every where - bigger, better and badder than the other two.

    Uncharted 2 bested the original in every way, better gameplay, characters, etc.
    SMB Response:
    Spoiler warning:

    Ignoring SMB2, since it doesn't technically count, the huge improvements between SMB and SMB3 are an example of exactly how to develop a game. Essentially what they had with SMB was a "proof of concept." People played the game and loved but, but there really isn't that much there to make it a deep game, other than constantly improving and finding different secret areas.

    Move onto SMB3, and really what they took was the core concept behind SMB and made it OH SO MUCH BETTER. You aren't forced to go right all the time -- now each level is an open world to explore. Wanna go up? Sure, go up. Here's an item that makes you fly. Think these levels are getting easy? FUCK YOU, here's a level that forces you right the entire way through. Don't like doing World 2 Level 7? Fine, then go the other way and do World 2 Level 8.

    The sheer number of different ways you can play the game, the exploration involved, and pin-point accurate controls (HUGE in a platformer as insane as the Mario games can get) are one of the reasons this is still such a beloved game by so many people. On top of that, it just looks amazing. For an 8-bit system, it has such a diverse use of colours that change from world to world, giving each area it's own distinctive feel, and rarely recycles anything unless absolutely necessary.

    The only game that I felt did even better as a 2D Mario sequel is Super Mario World, which improved on SMB3 the same way SMB3 improved on SMB. People like exploring all of the levels, including flying around in the air finding that own platform with a 1-Up on it? Here, have a cape and learn how to stay in the air. Like finding secret exits? Here's, like, 1000 of them, so you can take 20 different routes to the final boss. Getting tired of running around on your own two feet like a peasant? HAVE A FRUIT EATING, ENEMY GOBBLING DINOSAUR STEED. Really, games don't get much better than that.

    Fuck I love those games.



    Uncharted Response:
    Spoiler warning:

    I feel the same thing happened between Uncharted and Uncharted 2. Uncharted was essentially a proof of concept. "Here's what we can do with this system, and here's the kind of story we want to tell." What's that? The game was a critical and commercial success? Sweet, now let's take all of that, takes these obviously beloved characters, and improve on the controls, develop a story based around the thirst for power, have huge set-piece levels to explore, include bosses that don't feel like bosses, and just create one of the most gorgeous games of it's generation. Seriously, pretty much everything about U2 was better than the first game. It's a shame U3 couldn't follow suit, but it's really hard to improve on perfection, and you don't get a much more perfect playing experience than U2.



    My Contribution (Mega Man):
    Spoiler warning:

    As for my contribution to the thread, I'm going to pull out one more example that follows the same path: Mega Motherfuckin' Man 2. MM1 acted as the proof of concept -- give the players a choice in how they play the game, include pinpoint platforming controls, a simple weapon that can defeat every enemy in the game if the player has enough skills, but give them more weapons to ease the game for those who don't want to do that. Offer dozens of way to beat the first half of the game (Do I beat CutMan first, or GutsMan? What if I go for BombMan, he's easy enough. ElecMan? Nah, 'cause then I have to go back for the item. IceMan? He's incredibly difficult to dodge... hmm...), then once you have all of the weapons, funnel them all into the same fortress and force each player through the same set of trials before facing the final boss, to weed out the ones who got there by luck.

    There were a few flaws with this model. Some of the puzzles were too "random" (I'm looking at you, floating fuckin' platforms in Ice Man's stage that didn't follow a set path). There was one item in the game that was necessary to beat the game, but you might not have grabbed during the course of your playthrough. The bosses were too unforgiving -- some bosses could beat you in three hits, which frustrated the fuck out of casuals.

    Enter Mega Man 2. Include two more bosses and three more items in the game, plus some Energy Tanks in case you get all fucked up along the way. Most of the levels are larger and slightly more involving, and it includes a couple of instant-kill spots just to make things a bit more interesting. The weaknesses are a bit more linear and obvious (for the most part), and while the bosses don't hit quite as hard, they take more hits to kill themselves, balancing things out a little bit.

    There are also three items in the game now, all of which will become necessary after the halfway point in the game. This time, however, you receive them during the natural course of the game, meaning no one is left out of the loop because they didn't find/go back for an item. Wily's Fortress is larger, the bosses feel more like "automated defense," giving the impression that you're breaking into a fortress. Also, while you still have to revisit the bosses later in the game, you now have the allusion of choice about which bosses you want to take otu first, and it takes the onus off "HA HERE'S A BARRAGE OF BOSSES THAT CAN ALL FUCK YOU UP IN THREE HITS" and more "here's a series of challenges, all of which can be beaten, but we'll give you a breather in between just in case you fuck up, 'cause we're bros like that."

    Again, there's a graphical upgrade (things look sleaker, and the levels "pop" more in terms of colours used, and in particular the background animations in levels like Quick Man and Metal Man), but it's not as huge of a leap as between SMB and SMB3. But that soundtrack... holy shit. Easily one of the best soundtracks on the NES.

    This game was just a huge improvement in every way over the first one, and is truly what started the Mega Man craze back in the '80s and '90s. The series wouldn't really ever take a huge leap forward again (it would take a number of small, "safe" leaps throughout the next couple of years). That all changed with MMX, which is arguably the best Mega Man game ever made, but better people than I have explained why it's such an amazing game.

    I'm tired of typing now and don't have a way to close this topic. I had Chinese and rainbow sorbet for dinner. It was very good. I'm also very glad the Toronto Maple Leafs are still in the Playoffs, although I feel guilty as shit for saying that. Have a nice night, y'all.

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    Everything you said Drag is dead on. I like it when you get into your "review" mode and give a good response. I also agree with you about Mario World being even better in some respects, because it truly was..... levels with multiple exits, super hard levels (Star Road), and other fun stuff. I know I'm a Nintendo hater these days, but in the 80's and 90's they were the true kings of the playing field. Also, with UC3 - I've said it before and I'll say it again here; the game felt more like the SAW movies - come up with cool set pieces and make a half assed story around said events. I don't hate UC3, but it's not nearly as good as 2. Oh, and to agree with Gypsy - lol on Alundra 2 - that game doesn't even resemble the original.... it's sooooooo bad

    Some other games I thought of:

    Super Metroid - kicked the shit out of Metroid 1 and 2, and in my eyes the franchise has never been the same since.

    Zelda: Link to the Past - took everything that made the original awesome, and made it better.

    Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Secret of Mana 2) - Here's another game that totally improved on the original in every single way - and we didn't even get a localized version. Blasphemy

    And finally, Silent Hill 2. I've never been hooked on a Silent Hill game since part 2, and there's a reason - that game took all the creepiness and story that made the original compelling and amped it up to a fucking 10. It's not been matched, nor will it ever be for quite some time.

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    I think Shattered Memories comes very close to SH2 in terms of awesome plot. If we count only the story it's one of the best in the franchise. Too bad the actual gameplay sucks donkey balls.

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    And then there are sequels that are pretty much the same than their predecessors.

    Dead Rising 2 and DR2 Off the Record, Dragon's Dogma and DD Dark Arisen ...


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gare View Post
    The setting and soundtrack of the first game was great, and they pretty much threw those out the window in the sequel. Consequently I never bothered to finish it.


    I feel so empty and alone...

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    The truth hurts, crusher.

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    Honestly I thought the sequel did improve upon most aspects of the original, including the soundtrack.

    Please tell me you at least watched a play-through to see the ending! :O

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    Yeah, I actually watched the ending on Youtube, don't worry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie Monster View Post
    ...Dragon's Dogma and DD Dark Arisen...
    Dark Arisen is an expansion, not a true sequel, so I don't really count it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drageuth View Post
    Dark Arisen is an expansion, not a true sequel, so I don't really count it.
    That's why I added the

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    I'm going to go stand in my corner now.

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    Some games come to mind where the sequels were great for entirely different reasons:

    Half-Life: HL1 was great because it did something new for it's time, actually presenting a worthwhile story through an FPS. It was also essentially Sci-Fi. HL2 introduced physics gameplay, and presented a story that in a way had nothing to do with the first (it was heavily inspired by 1984 I hear)

    Resident Evil: RE1 was insanely difficult and all of it essentially happened within a single building with lots and lots of backtracking and exploration. RE2 was kinda action oriented and more linear, but it had better looking visuals, introduced zombie outbreak in a city, and had 2 4 parallel playthroughs. 2 stories, 2 characters each.

    Gran Turismo: Gr1: ZOMG graphics & physics! Gr2: ZOMG over 9000 cars!

    GTA SA: Forget cars, boats, bikes, and helicopters. It also has bicycles, Jets, lawnmowers, and hovercrafts!!! It also has 3 cities! Not 1, not 2, but 3! GTA 4: Dat technology.

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