General Gaming Discussion

[Cyberxion]

I've heard that some PS3 developers aren't compressing shit, and on top of that they're duplicating data in order to cut down on load times. If there's any truth to that, it makes me wonder whether or not MGS4 is following suit.

The funny thing about this is that people are using it as irrefutable proof that the game will never be ported to the 360, as if we never had games that came on multiple disk before, or if with proper compression the game couldn't be trimmed down a bit in size.

[Josh]

Duplicating data on the disk has been a common practice for a while to help reduce on load times. The 360 does it as well. Developers aren't compressing because why should they take the time to? It lowers the quality of the final product, or even in the case of lossless compression, takes CPU cycles to decompress which means the game isn't running at it's optimal rate.

Since many game engines are starting to stream data as it is needed, load times aren't going to be as much of a problem as one would think. Since the PS3 also has the HDD on all consoles, a small amount of space could be used as a temporary cache which could be loading from the disk while nothing new is being loaded.

[Libra]

I remember on how the 360, after a cut scene or loading it would take like 3-10 seconds for textures to fully load. kind of annoying but..

[Cyberxion]

Duplicating data on the disk has been a common practice for a while to help reduce on load times. The 360 does it as well. Developers aren't compressing because why should they take the time to? It lowers the quality of the final product, or even in the case of lossless compression, takes CPU cycles to decompress which means the game isn't running at it's optimal rate.

Since many game engines are starting to stream data as it is needed, load times aren't going to be as much of a problem as one would think. Since the PS3 also has the HDD on all consoles, a small amount of space could be used as a temporary cache which could be loading from the disk while nothing new is being loaded.

So the question was whether or not Kojima could have got the size of MGS4 down had he bothered to compress data and cut down on data duplication, not whether or not it's a common practice.

There is no reason why developers should be having issues with the capacity of a Blue Ray disk unless they're engaging in lazy, sloppy programming, or they're unwilling to do what needs to be done to optimize the space. I doubt that compressing data would make such a difference that the overall quality of the product would suffer.

[Skinner8]

If 25 GB isn't enough for one game, it'd better have tens of thousands of play hours.

[Josh]

So the question was whether or not Kojima could have got the size of MGS4 down had he bothered to compress data and cut down on data duplication, not whether or not it's a common practice.

There is no reason why developers should be having issues with the capacity of a Blue Ray disk unless they're engaging in lazy, sloppy programming, or they're unwilling to do what needs to be done to optimize the space. I doubt that compressing data would make such a difference that the overall quality of the product would suffer.

Here is another way to look at it as well.

Assassin's Creed is a very large game. The cities are all very large as is the Kingdom. Yet this game fits on a DVD9. Once you play the game for a while, you can easily notice how the game fits on a DVD9 like it does. While most of the buildings are different, they are all made up of the same elements. These elements are just configured differently to make the building look different. You will notice that all of the hundreds of merchant stands are identical as are the stacks of jars, baskets, rooftop gardens. Even though there are thousands of citizens, there is probably only a dozen unique models for citizens. You will also hear a lot of the same audio repeated throughout the different cities and areas. So while you may have a city with hundreds of buildings and thousands of citizens, all of the elements that make the buildings are identical as are most of the citizens and the things they say. While these models may be highly detailed, using the same one over and over only adds a few KB of data to the overall game. Gears of War is also very similar. Much of the landscape and buildings are just different configurations of the same elements.

MGS4 probably has hundreds of hours of unique dialog, not just for cutscenes, during the gameplay. Conversations between soldiers and citizens, etc. Many of the buildings are also probably very unique with little recycling of the same elements that make them up. The same can be said for a game like Uncharted: Drake's Fortune. As you progress through the game, rarely do you get the feeling of deja vu because everything is different and unique.

[crusher]

I also think they are aiming for lossless audio in MGS4. That will surely take loads of space seeing as it's.... well MGS.

[SA-X]

I also think they are aiming for lossless audio in MGS4. That will surely take loads of space seeing as it's.... well MGS.

Good to see they're matching HD video with HD sound.

[Libra]

I just want Mass Effect on the PS3. That's the only game I miss on the 360, that and Bioshock, which are both on PC anyways.

[Josh]

I just want Mass Effect on the PS3. That's the only game I miss on the 360, that and Bioshock, which are both on PC anyways.

If Mass Effect ever comes on PS3, I will be getting it for PS3. If not, it will be a good game to test on the computer I am starting to design.

[Cyberxion]

Josh, while I appreciate the lessons, they don't address the questions I have about MGS4 in particular. I'm sure that shit is a factor, but this might be too. Maybe they aren't utilizing the disk space in an optimal manner. Who knows?
Being that not a single developer up until now has had a problem with Blue Ray disk capacity, you just have to wonder is all. I'm sure it'll be a fantastic game, even though Kojima had to cut corners because of this silly, silly issue. Maybe next time out he'll use two disks if he has to?

Anyway, for those of you who are interested, Rhapsody is coming to the DS, as is Disgaea.

[MondayHopscotch]

supposedly there isnt a "next time", i remember him saying that MGS4 is his last game (dealing with the metal gear series), but i imagine if the space issues had that much of an impact on the story, he would have gone with two disks

[Cyberxion]

supposedly there isnt a "next time", i remember him saying that MGS4 is his last game (dealing with the metal gear series), but i imagine if the space issues had that much of an impact on the story, he would have gone with two disks

Yeah, it's apparently a graphics thing. The rest of the game is being delivered as he intends it.

Didn't Kojima say that like, MGS3 was the last one, or am I nuts? Well, more so than usual.

[BellGoRiiing]

Is Mass Effect an RPG or something? If it is I might try it (if its possible) when my computer is good enough.

[MondayHopscotch]

Yeah, it's apparently a graphics thing. The rest of the game is being delivered as he intends it.

Didn't Kojima say that like, MGS3 was the last one, or am I nuts? Well, more so than usual.

Well graphics are nice and all, but im more about gameplay than i am graphics. If a game is hella-fun, i can see past crap graphics, so as long as the story is there, im happy .

I never heard that MGS3 was supposed to be his last, but then again i dont pay too much attention