Professional Communication: Am I the one with the problem?

[AlphaKhaosifix]

Background Story[Optional]
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Hello,

I'm a 19 year old who will probably pursue game development as a profession several years from now. I have an online social dilemma here. Yes, I know it sounds stupid and insignificant but I think it is significant.

As some of you professionals might already know communication or socialization is essential to the success of a team working on a game project. Creating a professional quality game is a group effort and all group members should establish some level of friendliness with one another so that working together wouldn't be a pain-staking process.

For years I've been looking for a game development community to adapt to and according to my history or rap sheet(hehe) I've had problems with almost all communities I've come into contact with. I know you guys don't give a crap about my past but one of the staff members of gamedev.net has this religious crusade against which stemmed from a simple issue from gamefaqs.com. Their programming community is filled with Linux zealots who pressure beginners to avoid the DirectX API at all cost. I felt that this was awful because they were imposing a very linear, depth-less message onto everyone.

When I came into that community I decided to make a topic about how the DirectX API isn't as poorly designed as version 5 and basically to bust all of the myths regarding microsoft's API. From that day I created that topic Ravuya(who's on the gamedev.net staff) started this ultra-serious religious crusade against me, assembling as many people as he can to bother me on AIM, e-mail, basically harrassment. None of that bother me except for the fact that he had "connects" on the gamedev.net staff to have me banned because one of his friend's sites were hacked and he suspected me.

A later instance of where I wasn't able to get along with fellow game programmers is in #GameDev at irc.efnet.org. I used to visit this place all the time until I was banned without reason by Ghaleon, one of the OPs there. Ghaleon doesn't seem like a sociallly intelligent person to me. He barely speaks properly english and utilizes the haX0r sub-language in his speech which I find quite immature and annoying. Many other people in that same channel utilizes that same speech but to a lighter extent and support my ban. Apparently I was banned because I told him to stop acting like an idiot. He never helps people out. Whenever someone had a programming-related question he would dodge the question and say something like, "RTFM" or "rofflecoptor! google.com ". Even to the more advanced questions.
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Main Part
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My problem is that if I'm unable to get along with my future colleagues at this age then my career in the game development field is more like a conspiracy theory that doesn't make sense rather than a fact that happen(a million apologies for my weird analogy). For some odd reason I'm somehow convinced that these guys are a representation of things to come. Ghaleon is over 23 years of age and works at a professional gamedev firm. His name was on their staff list but the company only made a Shrek game for some console(can't remember).
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What I'm doing in life[Optional but recommended]
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To bring in a feeling of optimism into this topic I'll stay closer to the topic of gamedev and tell you guys what I'm working on.

I've taken a break from game programming to explore the wonderful field of web design. However, I'm still a computer science major. I've acquired Photoshop CS2, ImageReady, FruityLoops Studio 5, Dreamweaver & Flash MX. Lately I've been taking an interest in Leonardo Da Vinci* so I'm taking his approach and have become interesting in various topics.

Thinking about purchasing a keyboard(electrical piano) to compose some music in conjunction with FruityLoops Studio 5. Hopefully to use this music in my websites and future games I'll program.

As for art, I recently drew a still-life of toilet paper . My printer can't print but it can scan. It doesn't scan pencil drawings too well so I can't submit my artwork to my deviantart account. Because of this I'm also considering purchasing a tablet to use in conjunction with Photoshop CS2 and ImageReady.

I'm currently reading a book on using the Flash program. Unfortunately this book is specifically designed for Flash 8 and I have MX(version 6). I wasn't even aware that Flash 8 came out already. Fortunately though, I have the Dreamweaver MX bible.

Besides web design and stuff I'm browsing the net for scholarships. I'm considering entering this webdesign contest. It might be sort of difficult for me because I am not a car ethusiast despite the fact that I own Gran Turismo 4(I actually think it's a boring game).
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* - Recently Da Vinci has been added to my list of idols which consist of Shigeru Miyamoto, Tupac Shakur, Tetsuya Takahashi, and Kurt Cobain.

Note: I won't apologize for the long post because I am a very descriptive person by nature(my art professor told me this).

[goosethemighty]

Well for one thing buddy I think you should slow it down a few paces and stick to one thing. Focus your attention on what you do best and do that, if you try to do too many things you will find that will weed yourself out and never really excell at anything.

And dont bother to say that Leonardo Da Vinci was interested in various topic and such so you can do it to because just before Da Vinci died he said that he wished he had spent more time just painting.

As for "yours" or "their" social skills you lost me at "hello"

Seriously what the hell was the point of this?

[AlphaKhaosifix]

Well for one thing buddy I think you should slow it down a few paces and stick to one thing. Focus your attention on what you do best and do that, if you try to do too many things you will find that will weed yourself out and never really excell at anything.

And dont bother to say that Leonardo Da Vinci was interested in various topic and such so you can do it to because just before Da Vinci died he said that he wished he had spent more time just painting.

As for "yours" or "their" social skills you lost me at "hello"

Seriously what the hell was the point of this?

Thanks you for taking the time to read some of my post. Basically my problem is that I can't get along with aspiring game programmers like myself. I believe this is a problem because communication is essential to game development, especially in a team where you spend 10 hours a day with.

[malice2501]

if you were banned just for having a different opinion, then just say fuck em and go on with your life. As for your future, dont worry about it, it will come. And doing too many things is a bad idea. Do what you like, or do what you are good at and leave the rest as hobbies.

[goosethemighty]

Man your19 enjoy your life,educate yourself in the field youwant and your social skills will develop when you grow and mature.

[Raype]

Sounds rough. My post is going to be pretty quote heavy to improve understanding, so overlook the huge post (I'll try to keep it short, and just point to a part of the referenced paragraph). I've done some programming and stuff like that, and know a few older programmers. however you sound a bit more experienced than I, so don't take my advise to seriously, as it may not sound as good as I hope it would.

I'm a 19 year old who will probably pursue game development as a profession several years from now. I have an online social dilemma here. Yes, I know it sounds stupid and insignificant but I think it is significant.

Online development is a great place to start, but really many devs online are real jerks. You can't see them, which leads them to act differently. Also, they are online developers, which means sociallization isn't going to be a strong point with them (most people on the net are antisocial from my experience) Don't expect it to transfer over into the real world (unless you're lazy or incredibly stupid).

As some of you professionals might already know communication or socialization is essential to the success of a team working on a game project.

Absolutely. It just sounds like the people you have met dislike you or your ideas and aren't willing to change. They are the problem, not you (from the sound of things). Just talk it over with some of them, maybe you can reach an understanding, or do some things non-work related to learn more about them (MSN and AIM work great for that). You may turn things around by doing that. Just don't give up on your dreams or anything, you're bound to meet some people who will like you and agree with you. When you do, try to make your own teams, instead of relying on working with groups of new people all the time. If you find someone you like to work with, be sure to offer them a place at any new jobs (if it's okay with your team members, but most like to have as many people as possible working on something at least the unpaid/low paid projects). It may help to have a friend working on the same project to help defend your ideas and just someone you can trust.

For years I've been looking for a game development communicate to adapt to and according to my history or rap sheet(hehe) I've had problems with almost all communities I've come into contact with. .

Oh I've been there. Programming is all about Linux. I recommend that you get into Linux as soon as possible, it's great. You're not going far if you can't use Linux. DirectX isn't all that great compared to other APIs, but it's still a common API and you should be allowed to use/understand it. Just because other APIs are generally better doesn't mean they should always be used (DIrect X has many uses, in some cases it's better than Linux-based APIs, although I bet some Linux nerd will correct me on that). I hope you would agree to use linux if required, otherwise you're just being arrogant and are asking for trouble. Although I do see your point (I'm a bit of an API n00b really, but that doesn't mean I'm clueless). And since API is so essential to development, it's usually talked about early in development. That may mean you are getting off on the wrong foot with these other devs, not a good idea at all. As for the rap sheet, check up on it. Ask what the problem was and work toward fixing it. I still say that every computer should have a Linux OS on it, but personally I still use windows sometimes (thanks to whoever invented multi-booting machines)

When I came into that community I decided to make a topic about how the DirectX API isn't as poorly designed as version 5 and basically to bust all of the myths regarding microsoft's API. From that day I created that topic Ravuya(who's on the gamedev.net staff) started this ultra-serious religious crusade against me, assembling as many people as he can to bother me on AIM, e-mail, basically harrassment.

Okay, now that is serious harassment.If I were you, I'd create multiple AIM and e-mail accounts. That way if problems arise you can just close out that account (or use the old ignore option). You're entitled to your opinion, and I know that DirectX is a very misunderstood API. People are always Linux crazy when it comes to software dev, so it's a good idea to use Linux. Not to say that DirectX doesn't have it's uses, it just isn't the best thing to use all the times and it will result in a lot of headaches for both you and the team. Just use the agreed software, and don't use something the team members don't want you to use. Again, DirectX isn't as bad as everyone thinks, and I'm going to try reading your article later to see why that lead to this supposed "crusade " against you. You sure don't sound like you were Linux bashing, or that you were out to say it was the best API, just that it wasn't totally useless (which I can agree totally with, despite my love of Linux)

A later instance of where I wasn't able to get along with fellow game programmers is in #GameDev at irc.efnet.org. I used to visit this place all the time until I was banned without reason by Ghaleon, one of the OPs there. Ghaleon doesn't seem like a sociallly intelligent person to me. He barely speaks properly english and utilizes the haX0r sub-language in his speech which I find quite immature and annoying. .

Ah the oft seen 1337 h4xx0rz language. I've seen people who talk like that. Here's an example if you haven't seen it (don't bother trying to translate, it's just a part of the quoted paragraph

4pp4r3n7|y 1 w45 84nn3d 83(4u53 1 70|d h1m 70 570p 4(71n6 |1k3 4n 1d107. |-|3 n3v3r h3|p5 p30p|3 0u7. \/\/h3n3v3r 50m30n3 h4d 4 pr06r4mm1n6-r3|473d qu35710n h3 w0u|d d0d63 7h3 qu35710n 4nd 54y 50m37h1n6 |1k3, "R7F|\/|" 0r "r0ff|3(0p70r! 6006|3.(0m ". 3v3n 70 7h3 m0r3 4dv4n(3d qu35710n5.

Yeah, sad isn't it, I'm now fluent in it, because of putting up with these losers on MB's for years. You were well within your reason to tell him to stop being an idiot (he sounds like a real jerk, incompetent, and a spammer). Of course, you may have come off as a little harsh in his opinion, and it's generally not a good idea to attack people in power as they tend to use that power (I hope you don't do this to team leaders or employers). Just kindly and calmly explain that you think he should try being more helpful and should work on his text skills. Remember that the person on the other end is human, just like you. You don't want to insult or anger that person, as it may cause them to hate you. It helps to keep things professional, and if he can't do that, he is the problem, not you.

My problem is that if I'm unable to get along with my future colleagues at this age then my career in the game development field is more like a conspiracy theory that doesn't make sense rather than a fact that happen(a million apologies for my weird analogy).

Yep, you're bound to run into idiots in life, deal with it (sorry if that sounded mean, it's just true). You can't go around all depressed or angry because some idiot doesn't like you. There may be ways to change their dislike of you. Try to be more receptive to their ideas, follow orders, don't question everything, try to be as friendly as possible. Even if they still dislike you, they may respect you a lot more. Plus, it'll help in the future with other jobs. Many people in online development are antisocial, and young, so don't expect them to all be like that. These people aren't on major jobs for a reason. Don't give up on your dream, maybe you just need to change your plans. Instead of game development, consider application development, digital art, home-made programming (one person programs that are usually game based flash, not a job, but a hobby that doesn't involve putting up with others yet will still help develop skills). There are many similar fields that you can get into, don't focus on one (but don't try to do everything either, you don't want to get overworked or stressed, and people who try to learn everything remain unskilled at everything because they don't develop their full talent).

I've taken a break from game programming to explore the wonderful field of web design. However, I'm still a computer science major. I've acquired Photoshop CS2, ImageReady, FruityLoops Studio 5, Dreamweaver & Flash MX. Lately I've been taking an interest in Leonardo Da Vinci* so I'm taking his approach and have become interesting in various topics.

Good idea. It never hurts to know as much as possible about various fields as a backup (I myself have learned a few things about differing programming styles/languages, yet have some preferences that I focus on). Just don't overwork or push yourself too hard. Take a break from programming totally if you have to, just make sure you stay up on the technology. But if a good game programming job comes along, don't turn it down, it may be the one that totally changes your outlook. "Hope for the best yet expect the worse" is a good think to think when taking any jobs or even considering them

Thinking about purchasing a keyboard(electrical piano) to compose some music in conjunction with FruityLoops Studio 5. Hopefully to use this music in my websites and future games I'll program.

Now you seem to be gaining a lot of skills in many areas. Have you ever considered making a program/game on your own, or with a very small group of friends/other students? BTW maybe you should ask around campus (you said you were a CS major, so I assume that you are in school). Maybe you can find a few people who share your interests. Maybe they can recommend some Dev communities to go to, or some people to meet. Maybe they themselves are rookie game devs who are interested in working with you. You may end up making a project entirely with people in your school if the department is large enough. Working in person with these people and knowing them personally removes the anonymity of the internet and will present a closer to real word example of what game dev really is. Also, ask if you're school has a student work program. You may get a work term with a game dev. It may not be anything high because you're a student, but you definantly sound advanced for a second (?) year post sec student. I'm sure you can find employement somewhere. That may help you decide your future.

Because of this I'm also considering purchasing a tablet to use in conjunction with Photoshop CS2 and ImageReady.

Definantly get that tablet. You need it if you're serious about art (esp. computer art)

Besides web design and stuff I'm browsing the net for scholarships. I'm considering entering this webdesign contest. It might be sort of difficult for me because I am not a car ethusiast despite the fact that I own Gran Turismo 4(I actually think it's a boring game).

Trust me, it's hard to get those IT and CS scholarships (I'm an excellent student yet I don't apply for a single one despite entering for a lot of them). As for that other one, it may not be a good idea to take stuff that isn't your speciality. Although it may help you learn a lot more about cars, and it never hurts to learn more. Just don't expect to win, since you aren't a professional. If you must enter that, read up on cars (car mags and games are easily acquired, and your school may have a mechanical school where you can ask a prof for info, they are always open to answering questions about their interest from my experience).

Note: I won't apologize for the long post because I am a very descriptive person by nature(my art professor told me this).

Yeah, I probably went on too long here as well, I expect a lot of replies when I click submit since it took so long to type this.

[Evans]

Omega, the devil is in the details.

Dude, if you cannot deal with the fact that some of your superiors are going to be fuckwits and utter jackasses, I suggest that you then learn to keep your mouth shut. When faced to an idiot, especially one that has power over you, don't talk back, they aren't used to dealing with other's points of view. Just take the pill and sit back. Getting in their faces will only lend you the boot.

[Raype]

Omega, the devil is in the details.

Dude, if you cannot deal with the fact that some of your superiors are going to be fuckwits and utter jackasses, I suggest that you then learn to keep your mouth shut. When faced to an idiot, especially one that has power over you, don't talk back, they aren't used to dealing with other's points of view. Just take the pill and sit back. Getting in their faces will only lend you the boot.

I already said that, I didn't try to overlook the fact that he may be causing these problems and was trying to offer some suggestions. Hopefully my last post wasn't so long that you stopped halfway through, or ignored that part.

[Evans]

I already said that,...

I read most of it. Should I quote and find stuff I disagree with? I don't mind, I'm feeling typy tonight.
BTW, the fact that you said that, in other terms or not, will not prevent me from restating it again. Understood? Good. If you can't see that my reiterating it means that it's what he should really work on, since I believe a part of his other problems may be stemming from just that major one, that's not my problem.

...I didn't try to overlook the fact that he may be causing these problems and was trying to offer some suggestions.

I'm getting the feeling you think I'm doing this just to... I don't know, bother you, undermine your efforts or something. Wrong.

Hopefully my last post wasn't so long that you stopped halfway through, or ignored that part.

Well, I skipped across some. Reading his life story was enough. I'm not going to chaperon him on everything, as I believe some lessons are best learnt by oneself. I felt giving him some heads up about his main compunction was enough.

[Raype]

I read most of it. Should I quote and find stuff I disagree with? I don't mind, I'm feeling typy tonight.
BTW, the fact that you said that, in other terms or not, will not prevent me from restating it again. Understood? Good. If you can't see that my reiterating it means that it's what he should really work on, since I believe a part of his other problems may be stemming from just that major one, that's not my problem.

Nope. I just got the impression you thought I was overlooking that possiblity with

Omega, the devil is in the details.

Seemed to be saying I overlooked that possibility

I'm getting the feeling you think I'm doing this just to... I don't know, bother you, undermine your efforts or something. Wrong.

tsk tsk Evans, what happened to no assumtions ? And no, I wasn't trying to say that you were trying to undermine me or anything, just trying to say that I agreed and that I had said it earlier so you may be unfounded by believing that I thought the team members/employers were totally at fault.

Well, I skipped across some. Reading his life story was enough. I'm not going to chaperon him on everything, as I believe some lessons are best learnt by oneself. I felt giving him some heads up about his main compunction was enough.

Excellent point, but he was looking for advice and I saw no reason to turn him away. I think he should work through this himself, yet there is nothing wrong with asking for help. There is nothing wrong with asking for the opinions of others. If he chooses to ignore or accept anything, that is purely his idea, so we are not enforcing that he follow our Ideas. He took the time to type it, it's the least I can do to read it and give my thoughts. But that is just my opinion.

[Evans]

Nope. I just got the impression you thought I was overlooking that possiblity with ...

Seemed to be saying I overlooked that possibility

Meant that text might have been... too much.
Details. You know. Listen to that art teacher.
You end up loosing yourself. That's why you think I'm a better debator.

tsk tsk Evans, what happened to no assumptions ?

See, there's a difference in using assumptions as if they were standing facts, and using them to make something clear. I thought that you wrote that with the idea that my post could have been somewhat of a "hey, look, he missed that point or surrounded it with other stuff", so I made sure I got the point across. Thin lines are a bitch.

And no, I wasn't trying to say that you were trying to undermine me or anything, just trying to say that I agreed and that I had said it earlier so you may be unfounded by believing that I thought the team members/employers were totally at fault.

Wait, let's look at that... Mmmm. Ok.
I won't start quoting from the beginning, but it's sad to say that you just misunderstood me. Again. :\

Excellent point, but he was looking for advice and I saw no reason to turn him away. I think he should work through this himself, yet there is nothing wrong with asking for help. There is nothing wrong with asking for the opinions of others. If he chooses to ignore or accept anything, that is purely his idea, so we are not enforcing that he follow our Ideas. He took the time to type it, it's the least I can do to read it and give my thoughts. But that is just my opinion.

I didn't imply it was wrong to ask for advice, nor that it is for answering back. Never mentionned anything about forcing him to listen either. See, that's why I think internet opinions are mostly bullshit. People get into long tangent-like tirades about what they believe, when it has pretty much nothing to do with the matter at hand. Not wanting to judge you or sound like a mean bean there, but I don't really care about that. Sure, you'll tell me "the same about this then". Perfect.

[Raype]

Meant that text might have been... too much.

Oh, you were referring to my text and not Alpha's. That clears that up.

Details. You know. Listen to that art teacher.
You end up loosing yourself. That's why you think I'm a better debator.

I didn't think I went off on-topic, and was responding to multiple parts of that post. I was trying to offer advice on how to handle multiple situations in a better manor. I didn't think such a large post that dealt with so many issues deserved a mere one or two line response and I wanted to avoid confusion or misunderstanding of my post, although perhaps I am wrong.

And you advice has been well taken.

See, there's a difference in using assumptions as if they were standing facts, and using them to make something clear. I thought that you wrote that with the idea that my post could have been somewhat of a "hey, look, he missed that point or surrounded it with other stuff", so I made sure I got the point across. Thin lines are a bitch.

No, I wrote it with the impression you said "you're wrong, he just needs to learn to shut up instead of mouthing off his employers and co-workers". Bit of a difference. Although you're post really helped get that point across a lot better than mine since it focused a good bit on other issues he had rather than just the employers/co-workers being jerks.

Wait, let's look at that... Mmmm. Ok.
I won't start quoting from the beginning, but it's sad to say that you just misunderstood me. Again. :\

No, it was another part of the same misunderstanding.

I didn't imply it was wrong to ask for advice, nor that it is for answering back. Never mentionned anything about forcing him to listen either. See, that's why I think internet opinions are mostly bullshit. People get into long tangent-like tirades about what they believe, when it has pretty much nothing to do with the matter at hand. Not wanting to judge you or sound like a mean bean there, but I don't really care about that. Sure, you'll tell me "the same about this then". Perfect.

I believe some lessons are best learnt by oneself.

I think that implied you weren't interested in offering help. I misunderstood your opinion obviously. I tend to do that a lot apparently

[Evans]

I think that implied you weren't interested in offering help. I misunderstood your opinion obviously. I tend to do that a lot apparently

Thinking one should find answers alone does in no way mean that help shan't be provided at some point, now does it? After all, I did post that first post about his main issue.

[malice2501]

heh, let the text wars roll baby

[Evans]

War is in recess. Come back again.