Feminism...

[Jase]

Oh and one more thing, all of your dissent is based off of physical inadequacies of females to males. I agree that females have pitiful standards that they have to uphold. But most of these women feel this way too and exceed these standards by leaps and bounds. Just because they are physically weaker than men on average doesn't mean they are useless. They are doing a fine enough job just as they are.

Chicks are sexy rar
thou really if people have to go on about the physical difference then thats nothing i have seen chicks build like tanks
bah anyway if your in the army dont you use a gun

[MusikFreak00]

yeah, that's the beauty of the job. Except when you are running through the desert or jungle carrying your wounded buddy in a fireman's carry for 2 1/2 miles. That kinda requires some physical strength . Although, people have been known to do some amazing things under pressure...

[Jase]

yeah, that's the beauty of the job. Except when you are running through the desert or jungle carrying your wounded buddy in a fireman's carry for 2 1/2 miles. That kinda requires some physical strength . Although, people have been known to do some amazing things under pressure...

Ah we have a thinker here what about the min weight that you have to carry to get into the army plus the fireman carry evens the weight out

[MusikFreak00]

there is no minimum weight to be able to lift in the army. For females, they have to do 3 push-ups, 17 sit ups, and a mile run in under 10 mins i think before they can go to basic training.

And yeah the fireman's carry does distribute the weight around, but that was just an example carry, more than likely, if you are in a combat situation, and you have to move them out of the area, you will probably be stuck doing some more tactical carries that aren't as easy to pull off. Either way, adding another 175 pounds more or less to your weight already on you still tires you out

[Jase]

LOL you gotta be jokin right i laugh at your army
to get into our you have to carry a backpack that weigh's a set amount and it goes for both male and female

[MusikFreak00]

That's not the standards you have to be at after you finish basic training. Im not quite sure for females, but I know for me, I have to be able to do 42 push-ups in 2 mins, 53 sit ups in 2 mins, and a 2 mile run in 15:54 mins. Now thats just barely passing. Also, before you can graduate basic training, you have to be able to do a 12 mile ruck march (men and women) with a minimum of 35 pound ruck-sack.

PT Standards for men and women can be found here:
http://www.usarec.army.mil/hq/apa/rc/apft.htm

note: you need a 60 percent in every event to stay in the army.

[Mason]

Ok, finally got back from work.

[snip]

So basically what I am saying is, you can pull out these statistics and shit, but more than likely, it has no relevance to what the real situation is.

Thank you for saving me the time of repelling his arguments.

/me gives MusikFreak00 a gold star

[jace]

Many did not experience and then they talk as if they are experts themselves. You can learn things the easy way or the hard way, and obviously many like the hard way. Ever hear of the saying that goes something like life is too short to learn all your mistakes by yourself and that you have to look at another?

What was said does not back up anything and is just opinion, and some information is relevant to other countries on how the rules are different. Women can do some military work but not recommended for the heavy grunt work. Women can multitask better than men but are not as good in direction, men understand hands on better than women, women biologically get attached to a guy on a personal level and the man get more attracted for the women outside. Treating women like men has a negative affect and vise versa. Has anyone taken any college classes on any issues or have done research on long term affect on anything? If your opinions are good then don't go to school then. Do not even play games since the same institutes that brought you information also brought you the technology you are using.

Many of the feminists that started the women�s movement are not pleased at all what is happening now since it�s not the same movement in many ways. I said before that there are some good things about the feminist movement but there are more bad things. You can not just pick the good points on what the movement did and ignore the bad; you have to see it as a whole which many do not want to believe the information.

Another thing is that the majority here when they get married will get divorced and maybe you will disregard statistics and need to believe it is fake. Many would not be divorced if this was before the women�s movement.

You think women have more freedom now? They have less since they are being �used� more. Women had more power before to get married sooner, have a home sooner, are able to afford hospitals, had the �choice to have more� kids, has more values, families were healthier, got the best guy they can get unlike now that they hang at bars getting used by guys for 1 nigh stands, many women are tricked thinking they are with a guy since the guy wants commitment but the guy takes advantage of her more than ever before, and the list goes on. Many women as I stated in the last post see this happening and the ones that do not sell themselves get more as the article stated. Women have no bargaining chips now since if she can not put up she should shut up now, but before she didn't put up and she got the guy.

What I say is what the experts say as well. You think your daughter will have a lot of freedom and choices when she has to sleep around to not let the guy leave? This is having psychological damage as well and I bet many are psychological experts as well to dispute that too. Some things will defiantly not make sense I gave you links to get a book to read or information but many read the opinions, other topics that are not relevant, and do not care.
Well in the end it seems many here are experts and the experts are always wrong, hmm interesting. So people here are statisticians, doctors, politicians, psychiatrists, historians, and the list goes on, and that all the experts that say the unanimous thing are wrong. Wow

O well opinions maybe, facts indubitably, changing view that�s up to you. You have the information so good luck.
I said enough. Cheers

[MusikFreak00]

Aside from this issue, I'm all for women wanting to be equal. Go ahead and do what you want, just don't expect special treatment from me.

also, women aren't animals, they have free will, they have choice. If any man is "using" them, they have the ability to walk away from it. Just as any man could if they were in the same situation. The argument that they could get hurt or raped doesn't really hold up because the offenders that cause these crimes mostly act off of fear and lack of self-esteem of their victims. Maybe women should start to love themselves more and be more confident to ward off this kind of behavior. Also, it's the woman's choice how she's gonna live her life and if she wants to sell herself then that's her choice. You can't blame that on women gaining more rights.

[Ultimate X]

i only except one kind of feminism and thats the kind where women get treated exactly 100% equal and not expect special treatment from guys while they want to be treated equal

i hate feminists that pick and choose when they want to be equal and when to be treated special

[Dingy]

Originally posted by leatherman
Then tell them they aren't equal to men because they can't bench press as much as a man.

See that's the whole problem. I bet if I get a really strong woman, she might kick your ass at bench pressing. The same way EVERY guy can't bench press (there's nothing masculine about bench pressing) Why is that a girl who behaves like a guy, is cool, is tomboyish. But when a guy behaves like a girl or relies on emotion (which btw is a strictly 'non-usable' feeling for a man), he's a sissy? There are differences between man and woman. Instead of saying stupid things like "Let's see them bench press" or "Let's see them get pregnant" Why can't we accept our differences? And accepting here doesn't mean that just because you don't get periods or can't take a watermelon out of the tiny hole in your dick, you're not equal to me when it comes to oppurtunities.

Originally posted by Norgus
Hah if feminism was really about equal opertunities and rights etc its wouldnt be fucking called 'feminism' now would it?

Should be renamed 'equalism' and that might clear up some confused bitches on the matter.

edit: and come to think of it I never heard of feminism arguing to have less men or more women on the batlefields shooting people and being shot.
I say you take your good with your bad, and if your not prepared to then shut the fuck up.

Do you why know it's not called equalism? Because equality is something that means equal oppurtunites, rights, privileges among equals...it doesn't take into account the fact that men and women are unequal. When feminism emerged as an ideology, earlier feminists emphasized on the 'sameness' of men and women. Later feminists emphasize on the 'differences' between men and women. And they celebrate these differences...The right to equality says-'equal pay for equal work for both men and women' But how many believe in it? Equality is lacking today, that's why you have groups like Childen Rights' Activists, Animal Rigths' Activists, Feminists, etc. They are all fighting for equality. I think it's trivial to think that there are 'confused bitches' in this sphere. I think the people who don't see the reason for the need of these groups are confused and ignorant.
Though I understand were the words "confused bitches" is coming from. Many so called feminists are a little wonky in their demands.

Strange how when you get a 'bad' because of who you are...like for instance...most men in England are now fighting for 'paternity' leave, during which btw (when asked in a survey) they said "we're obviously going to use the time to catch up on the football games and gulp all the six-packs we can". So now suddenly, these men feel they too need a paternity leave in order to take care of their children, I'm not saying that all men don't. Many women too are horrible mothers. Why is that when women get something bad, they're meant to, eh? Or they simply "asked for it"? I don't get it, these days if you get eve-teased, it's just something that happens, you know? What the hell can you do about it? Try and ignore it? If you try and slap the prick and create a scene, most of the time it results in rape, kniving, etc. So why create a scene at all? See that's the problem, we're all so accustomed with this patriarchial setup and all the barbarism that comes with it, that we just take it as it is on a platter with all it brutality. Are humans that insensitive that unless you are a woman and you are touched and rubbed on your boobs in a public transport system and the guy shows you a knife so you can't say anything, you can't understand the plight of the woman in question. And then you go on to say "oh well, you know she wasn't decently dressed, so yeah, she asked for it" For you to fight against the injustice of this system, you need to be a woman? Why is that when a man is asked to 'take his good with his bad' that it can lead to a legal battle (which he will win) or anything, simply to prove that a man doesn't have any bad?
Why can't people (and here I mean both men and women) accept that men and women are different. But this difference is misused to deny women oppurtunities.

Originally posted by Jace
Lets not say that something bad is good becasue as we see many belieive it.

Let's not say something many believe in is bad, simply because many believe in it. Feminism, is a point of view. To be a feminist doesn't mean to agree with what they say on every issue. It means to 'think' like a feminist. And I don't know how to tell most here that to be a feminist, you don't have to be a woman.

Women in the military do not work. You are paying for many women getting pregnant with people that � ass know. Instead of defending their country they are out within the first few weeks getting defended by their country again and you are paying for the women�s misguided actions. It distracts the men as well. Tax payer�s money goes to good use. If you think that�s it then go to the military when you are married with your wife have a kid and let us pay for it.Thanks I wanted to pay more taxes for silly things. NOT

Women in the military don't work?? I'm too appalled to say anything to that...
They are distractions? WoW! ''Umm...sorry, I can't shoot, I'm in the middle of an orgasm!" That's obviously what every soldier's shouting during war!!
Woman who gets pregnant before marriage=one who's indulged in misguided actions
Man who has sex before marriage=stud, world idol, height of coolness.
If said men in battlefields cannot be focused during war and get horny, it's the woman's fault, if the woman has sex with them, it's her fault, if she says no, it's her fault, if she gets raped, it's her fault? Am I sounding like you, yet?
All men can't hold a gun (and be good at it), neither can all women. But that shouldn't and doesn't equate to- no woman can fight.
I have beaten up many guys till today, that doesn't make ALL women stronger than ALL men, or does it?

Other complaints by extreme feminist�s lol
History =(his) story some women say it should be �Ourstory� or �Herstory� LOL
Changing the bible from the word man to person
Against the phrase �man kind� but want �human kind�
Hysterical women complain about this too for some odd reason if u use it on them lol
In other words insecurity makes them do irrational thing and not be humble.

Immanuel Kant and Aristotle, were two of the first philosophers who described the state. According to them man was a rational thinking being and could be a part of the state.
Evidently there's nothing wrong with that line. But if you read what they went on to say such as, Emotion was a quality not attributed to the state but the home, kitchen and primary school. Do you understand how gendered and biased language and vocabulary is?
I've already mentioned my stance on radical feminists, I don't support that, because that breeds inequality. I don't mind something neutral like 'it' being used. But that's besides the point. I couldn't care lesser whether it was called Penistory However, to say that insecurity should make you humble, you're simply becoming a product of this system which teaches us to accept things the way they are. Is their insecurity irrational? If your answer to that is yes, then you will believe that what they do as a result of their insecurity is also irrational.

Another note-----------------
Feminist are weak since they get a little power and they no not do what is right but feel that they have the power to be as bad as the others now. I guess they didn't hear the saying that power corrupts.

You seriously have met the wrong feminists. Can't blame you for the way you think. But I wish I could change the way you think about it, because the fight for feminism is not the fight between patriarchy and matriarchy, it's between patriarchy and equality.
Margaret Thatcher was called the 'only man in her cabinet'...the reason--because she had the 'balls' to make decisions most men can't. If you want to call it a clear misuse of power, go ahead. However, if a man did it, he would be considered brave. But a woman is said to be going against the very fabric of feminity. Men are also disadvantaged by this system of patriarchy. It's so difficult for a guy to cry, so difficult for him to be scared of the dark or heights or spiders or rats. A guy who crys or screams is a sissy, why? Why is it expected for a man to not be frightened? Feminists fight for that too. But obviously you haven't met the right ones.

Women can be independent and have equal opportunity but to say 2 different organisms are equal is goes against logic. Like some psychiatrists say some feminists have penis envy. Women can be fighter fighters, but if they can not lift the same as a guy she should be one since you have to carry people off the building. Hey I am all for women playing football if they can and if they think they cant stand on their own and not get stomped then ok. If they want true equality they should not have women�s sports and they should try our for the regular sports, so why have women�s boxing since they want equality they can go take on Mike Tyson. Even the wrestler China lost to the mechanic Badafuko.

They are not equal, men and women. I can beat most guys at basketball, but at the same time I am one of those who'll get stomped over in a football game or even in many bball games. That's the difference. A guy who can run over most in football, may be a sucker at swimming compared to a girl, does that mean ALL men are strong? How can you deny a woman a job on a construction site simply because she can't carry the same amount of bricks compared to another guy in one hour. But believe you me, they'll be many men over there compared to who she can carry more bricks than. ALL men can't mine excellently, what about the disabled man, the claustrophobic man? And the eg. of China, please don't state an example from something as fake as the wwe.
I highlighted the word 'regular', to show your biases that you think mens' sports are regular.

If feminist want equality they should hold the door for men � the time, and would not mind if the guy is the stay home dad. It�s like many want everything the man has and the same extra benefits the women of yesterday, which that is not equal.

I hold the door for many guys, I don't think that makes me less of a woman or a feminist. It's only gentlemanly to do so. And I wouldn't judge a man if he didn't do so for me. Like it's not lady like to sit with your legs wide apart when you're wearing a short skirt I've told my boy friend, that if he wants to stay at home and look after the kids (when we do have them), I'll work for that time. Many don't want 'what the man has' for eg. getting rid of their periods, a penis, etc. They want the same oppurtunities as a man. They want to have the choice of flying a fighter plane, of mining.

Well that book that I mentioned is written by a woman that seems to be like a feminist since she is independent but uses the feminist movement against them in so many ways. People should yread the book or find it online to get more info. This argument that feminism is beneficial has been shown that it is not true.

I disagree with such people and what they believe in. You can't have your cake and eat it as well.

Things are a slippery slope and one bad thing leads to another, which many do not know the future consequences and fight for the �cause� but to not see the �affect�.

You obviously see feminism as a bad thing. But since you are so interested in cause and effect, then conduct an exercise in hermenutics and see whether what feminists are fighting for (equality vis a vis men) is something that is not required atm or something bad.

Like Jack Nicholson said �you can�t handle the truth�, which many try to dispute it with opinion and attacks.

What truth? That women make better home-makers than men? Does that mean, you won't help with the dishes? Tell me the truth, I'll tell you if I can handle it or not.

Originally posted by Solitude
"i dunno....is that allowed in india?"

lol. Ever heard of the bra-burning ceremony? Kind of started in India. When I heard of it. I instantly thought women were silly and why would they want to burn their bras when they supported them? But I read more about it and realized how important it was an issue for the mushrooming feminism then to fight for the 'right to rebel'. Because that is considered blasphemy for most women in the world and I know for sure...all women in India. I have had the fortune of meeting some very genuine and dedicated feminists who have told me the meaning of feminism (and only about 40% are female) and how it they are different from Womens' rights activists.

Its not as though men shouldn't stand up and support woman's rights y'know.....
it's not as though men have a god given right to act like arseholes untill women get up and do something about it.

Word. Well said Solitude.

Originally posted by Xeno Dan
I certainly disagree with women being treated as sub-humans, especially in some parts of the Islamic world.

Women aren't treated as subhumans only in some parts of the Islamic World. Even the Bible describes woman as an after-thought of God. Something that is twice-removed from God himself.

[Jimmy Onestroke]

Ok. Jace. What is your alternative? Other than "Haha, you're all insane because you don't see the truth," what do you actually believe?

[Paladin_Hammer]

Here's a better question. Feminist=Lesbian?

Seriously, are they lesbians? They hate men, so does that mean they also crossed the road?

[Ziegfried]

Ok. Jace. What is your alternative? Other than "Haha, you're all insane because you don't see the truth," what do you actually believe?

jace doesn't believe, he knows. That's what makes him better than you, you know.

Wait...





Paladin_Hammer, you might want to try reading at least SOME previous posts in the thread. It's been explained several times that being a feminist does not automatically equal hating everything male. Sheesh.

[Jimmy Onestroke]

No, no, PH is definitely onto something here.

I'll give you an example of a militant feminist who accosted me on the street while I was striding purposefully to the corner dairy to get my weekly stock-up of milk and pornography. I asked her why she had become a lesbian, as her flawed sexual orientation was immediately apparent (She had short hair, you see, and she wore pants). She replied that, although I had a penis for the time being, she would tell me her sorry story anyway.

"I started out as a housewife when I was 18, and loved my life in control of household management. Every day was fulfilling, as each hour was dedicated to the choices I was free to make in those days of bliss: changing nappies, staving of an alcoholic and violent husband, washing the dishes and making sandwiches. But then I heard about the latest craze: divorce. A lot of the other wives I had gotten to know in Stepford were getting one, and I heard about all the famous Hollywood celebrities who were doing the same. When that many people are jumping off the bridge, you know, the river underneath starts to look nice and pristine. Anyway... I divorced Gary when it became obvious that he was unwilling to sell our children for medical experiments. It was only when I was living on my own did I realise how silly I was for questioning my inferiority to men, but this drove me to spiteful hatred of men rather than any sort of backing down for my decision to leave my husband. After all, I was making millions from welfare, and I would go to the local bar every Tuesday to conceive another little income-maker and boost my income even further.

�Eventually I got tired of the way I was living. I got a job. Upon learning that they would pay me only three quarters of what my similarly inexperienced male co-workers were receiving. I reacted in the only logical way: by becoming a lesbian. It was hard at first, and it was certainly difficult to keep my mind on women when I spent half my time at work getting raped by men who were distracted by my presence. But I stuck with it, and now I�m here, about to cut your prick off with this broken bottle I found on the roadside. You�re going to find it difficult to heal in a hospital without bandages, because my lesbianism has forced the government to tax us all extra and spend the proceeds on abortions and training female soldiers, thereby forcing the government to undercut essential services for mankind.�

She didn�t cut my prick off though, because I am a man and therefore physically superior to her in every way. I was so superior, in fact, that I managed to cut HER prick off. I was quite surprised at this, but with her dying words (women are so inherently weak that even the most every day sort of pain, like castration, mortally wounds them, or at the very least, they complain a lot) she explained that feminism was the start of a slippery slope that lead to lesbianism, necrophilia, bestiality and spontaneous dick production.

The milk was off but the porn was good.