Please Show some Respect for ROM Translations

[deadlegion]

I don't know of any people who are tech-saavy enough to be able to use ROMs and emulators but unable to wrap their heads around renaming the IPS patch file to match the name of the ROM for 'soft' patching. I don't see that category of person existing. I just don't. Emulators are 'simple' but you still have to configure their inputs so they work with your controller/keyboard. Those interfaces for doing so are often unintuitive and outright arcane in certain emulators. So if people are able to actually PLAY the games that means they're either using the painful default controls or they figured out how to dig into the menus and configure the binds their way. And if they can do that then they can patch a ROM file or rename it to match the ROM itself.

Some people that come here for roms to use on Android devices and claim to have no access to a PC for whatever reason.
And yes, some people have difficulty with the most simplest of things on computers which is why they ask for pre-patched games.

Such people really do exist, but you appear to be unaware of them.

[MasJ]

I don't know of any people who are tech-saavy enough to be able to use ROMs and emulators but unable to wrap their heads around renaming the IPS patch file to match the name of the ROM for 'soft' patching. I don't see that category of person existing. I just don't. Emulators are 'simple' but you still have to configure their inputs so they work with your controller/keyboard. Those interfaces for doing so are often unintuitive and outright arcane in certain emulators. So if people are able to actually PLAY the games that means they're either using the painful default controls or they figured out how to dig into the menus and configure the binds their way. And if they can do that then they can patch a ROM file or rename it to match the ROM itself.

You don't know any such people? It sounds like you don't want to know such people because there appears to be one in this very thread. There are lots of people like this visiting this and other ROM sites, asking for pre-patched ROMs. Especially those on mobile devices which already represent almost 50% of the people who are nowadays into emulation.

Also, why are you trying to insinuate that running such a large website takes no work and is just 'lazy leeching'? If anything, patching a ROM and hosting it actually takes more work not to mention comes at more personal risk to the people running the site. The people who sell fake carts on eBay can and will still prepatch the ROMs on those carts. I'm sure they can figure that out if they have so much ($200+) to gain from it.

I don't see the need for the adversarial attitude that you're taking here. Which rom hack/translation do you represent?

[b2p1mp]

Its not always that simple... I patched an snes rom several times... it came with little instructions on how to. I seemed to patch fine, I was using the correct rom (check with MD5). My version just wouldn't work, so I grabbed a prepatched. I've never heard of this Ninja Patcher app.... maybe these translators should put more steps on how to apply the patch. Last one I looked in the readme said, Apply Patch, Play.

[darkwraith007]

Then how about a compromise, hmm?
For narrowing down this thread, I specifically focus on ROM translators. Specifically those translating from Japanese to English.
I'm not referring to those just 'hacking' the game like the hundreds upon hundreds of Super Mario World hacks that were made.
I represent myself and on behalf of those who are sick of seeing 'Secret of Mana 2 RARE' repros (and similar ones for other games) on ebay and other websites.

1 - Ask the translators for permission to distribute the prepatched ROM before putting it up on the site here. Saying 'oh but they can complain later' is a defeatist attitude. This whole 'opt-out' isn't the way any respectable website should be run and is openly hostile to the wishes of those who do the hard work of translation. I'll give the benefit of the doubt saying you want this to be a respectable website since you mention (really desperately) how kind and friendly the community is here. Since the mods didn't immediately lock this thread and/or ban me from the forums yet (despite my anger) then that shows that there may be some truth to that.

2 - If you want to be like every other ROM download website then cut the 'friendly community' bits. Just do your thing and say 'we dont care about that' and be done with it. But then you can't claim to be a 'friendly' community and you can't expect people to do more than treat this place as a download service. When you show no respect for the hardworking translators then you have no respect for the romhacking community at all.

3 - Instructions are unclear? That is the fault of the ones who created the translation patch. From all the ones that I've ever used (even going back to DemiForce translations and Aeon Genesis translations), I've never encountered major headaches with unclear instructions. I get the idea of making things more accessible. Go ahead and host a mirror of the original patch archive (which no self-respecting translator would object to) and links to the utilities that should be used. Provide your own instructions if the original ones are unclear (since you can offer prepatched versions it means you figured it out already, just provide the instructions).

4 - They want to use them on mobile emulators? That's even less of an excuse for prepatched ROMs! If they are using mobile emulators they should be able to obtain access to a laptop and use that for patching and such. In fact they'd likely need a PC/laptop anyways for backing up files and doing everything else that mobile platforms cannot do. So they can type out a message/e-mail AND they can figure out how to install, setup, and configure a mobile emulator for their phone/device but they don't have access to a PC? That's bullshit. That's the lamest shittiest excuse for repro-bastards that I've ever heard. I don't buy it.

5 - If you really want to stick around as a community site rather than just a rom-download site then you want to show some respect for the romhacking and translation community. Otherwise don't bother.

RomHacking Dot Net tends to be one of the few websites that only distributes the patches and usually provides clear instructions on what ROM to use and how to patch it up. If people are too lazy or too stupid to figure it out then they can play the game in Japanese
Catering to the lowest-denominator is much worse than just posting clear patching instructions (with mirrors of needed utilities for doing so).

And if you really want to, I'm willing to contribute a few 'how to patch ROMs' articles here if the admins are serious about respect for the community. I don't mind sharing information (rather than tedious one-by-one cleanup as suggested).

It isn't that systems beyond 16-bits are not necessary but generally the lion's share of ROM translations (the focus of this thread) have been done on the 8-bit and 16-bit systems. Trying to do translations for stuff like PlayStation 2 games is a rare breed and most of those are already distributed as prepatched ISOs by the original translators themselves (or they already granted permission for the prepatched version to be distributed).
I'm currently only aware of one completed PS2 translation and one in-progress PS2 translation that follows this rule. Maybe I need to dig in more but I haven't come across a ton of them.
As for PSP translation scene, I haven't been too deep into it but the quantity is far less than the ones for previous systems.

Gotta take baby steps and handle the 8-bit and 16-bit stuff first then move on to later consoles if applicable. The tools for translating and patching later systems is far from standardized like the IPS format has been for the older consoles.

Easy Method:
You can do a 'comparison' of the original unpatched ROM and the prepatched ROM and make a patch file that will work with the ROMs you distribute.
Then instead of the prepatched file you have a link to the ROM download and an 'instructions' link that leads to the same page for every ROM on that platform. Make one for NES, SNES, and Genesis/MegaDrive ROMs.

Credit the original people and have at it! You can even do this via the command line and via batch-files using FloatingIPS. If you have a volunteer programmer anywhere in the community then they could likely help the admins and everyone here and post instructions on how to use the batch file method. Update your entire ROM databases in a day

[Cookie Monster]

angry stuff

I'm only going to comment on the "friendly community part" that seems to irk you so much.

You are right, the fact that we haven't banned you despite your repeatedly confronting and condescending attitude proves that we, indeed, are a friendly community. We've always been. And that's not going to change whether we fulfil your request or not, whether you like it or not.

So yeah, drop that demanding attitude already and get ready to move on, regardless of our final decision, if you want to be here.

[MasJ]

OK, we'll invite feedback from other users regarding the matter and see what they think too. Mobile emulators don't need a laptop in the middle.

What's your handle on romhacking.net?

[Warrior]

If you wanted my two cents MasJ I think patches should be separate and instructions should be listed so the end user can understand.

Spoon feeding them simple things is not going to educate them in regards to Emulation / roms/ Disc Images / etc.

If end users don't bother to learn about the Emulation community then they are really not part of it.

If you have a passion for something then you should get excited to learn more and more about it and be a advanced user who can teach others .

Was saying that passionately since I am active on various areas of emulation and dumping, its very fun to help out and help make progress with emulators.

[deadlegion]

Post pre-patched games and mention a credit if you know the source and/or can be bothered.

Translation teams don't release pre-patched games (well at least from what I have noticed).
We have backups of games here.

Having translation patches separate really should be a matter of choice for uploaders imo.

[Ragnar]

2 - If you want to be like every other ROM download website then cut the 'friendly community' bits. Just do your thing and say 'we dont care about that' and be done with it. But then you can't claim to be a 'friendly' community and you can't expect people to do more than treat this place as a download service. When you show no respect for the hardworking translators then you have no respect for the romhacking community at all.

Given the sheer hypocrisy that goes into creating translation patches (they're against the creator's wishes ya know), and the fact that we host roms (which is just about against everyone's wishes). I think "'we dont care about that' and be done with it" is the correct answer. Trying to claim some sort of moral high ground here is idiotic. Yes I take that high ground myself, but I'm not going to SJW out and write a wall of text trying to force my opinion on others. That's why we give everybody the ability to do whatever they please, that's the basis of a friendly and open community, we allow nearly everything.

[Ness]

So let me get this straight OP, despite the extremely helpful and friendly community, pre-patched ROMs make us an unfriendly community?



And I'd just like to say, I've been a massive dick to Cookie Monster in the past and he's still friendly with me and hasn't permabanned me. If that's not friendly I don't know what is

[darkwraith007]

I think "'we dont care about that' and be done with it" is the correct answer.

I disagree that you have any idea what the wishes of the creators are for old/obsolete games on dated consoles that are no longer being sold.
Used physical game sales give them zero money; virtual console sales also don't grant royalties or money to the original creators; only the company that owns the IP.
I've spoken with more game developers and had pleasant chats with more of them then you could imagine. The common theme among every developer I've talked to regarding old/beloved stuff is that 'if you cannot purchase a new copy legally anymore then go ahead and get it anyway you can'. They're just happy that people can play it, that's all.

Of course if you want to track down and ask game devs themselves, you're welcome to do so. Interviews from older devs have already shown that they are happy that such old games are still well known. To use a popular example, all 3 of the main creators of Chrono Trigger (the 'Dream Team') expressed happiness and gratitude to the entire Chrono fanbase and the rom hacking community in (Japanese) interviews. They don't mind translations into other languages because having it be more accessible would help their work reach a wider audience.

The main issue tends to be doing so for profit (as in the carter-bastards that do that). Rom hackers and translators don't profit from their work and they do so for the benefit of the community and those who are emulation/retro enthusiasts.

You've stated what I needed to hear. That's all I need to know so that I do not wish to spend any more time within this community. Enjoy this clubhouse of yours.

[Ness]

I disagree that you have any idea what the wishes of the creators are for old/obsolete games on dated consoles that are no longer being sold.
Used physical game sales give them zero money; virtual console sales also don't grant royalties or money to the original creators; only the company that owns the IP.
I've spoken with more game developers and had pleasant chats with more of them then you could imagine. The common theme among every developer I've talked to regarding old/beloved stuff is that 'if you cannot purchase a new copy legally anymore then go ahead and get it anyway you can'. They're just happy that people can play it, that's all.

Of course if you want to track down and ask game devs themselves, you're welcome to do so. Interviews from older devs have already shown that they are happy that such old games are still well known. To use a popular example, all 3 of the main creators of Chrono Trigger (the 'Dream Team') expressed happiness and gratitude to the entire Chrono fanbase and the rom hacking community in (Japanese) interviews. They don't mind translations into other languages because having it be more accessible would help their work reach a wider audience.

The main issue tends to be doing so for profit (as in the carter-bastards that do that). Rom hackers and translators don't profit from their work and they do so for the benefit of the community and those who are emulation/retro enthusiasts.

You've stated what I needed to hear. That's all I need to know so that I do not wish to spend any more time within this community. Enjoy this clubhouse of yours.

Bye Felicia